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Meaningless LSU game a major problem. Alabama getting in even worse

So, Alabama does not even win their division in their conference, gets to sit on their butt, and back into this thing.

IT'S ASININE.

Meanwhile, LSU could lose 40-0 to Georgia and they are in as well. Sort of like Oklahoma vs. K-State in 2003 when they lost 35-7.

Didn't we learn from by beloved Huskers against that great Miami team in the 2002 Rose Bowl?

You should have won your conference to play for all of the marbles, PERIOD!

A rematch does not necessarily bother me. If the teams from two different conferences played early in the year, that's OK. But this is like legalized incest. LSU beat them already, and that win's equity has been diminshed. Alabama lost on their home field, and now they can win the whole thing by beating LSU??

This is not the same as Florida-Florida State in the 1997 Sugar Bowl. Those two played an inter-sectional game (which I am also not a big fan of at the end of the season, but that's another topic). Because of Nebraska's loss to Texas, that game lined up with ASU being committed to the Rose Bowl to play Ohio State.

Your thoughts?

Greg

Comments

  • mrmint23mrmint23 Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭
    If not Alabama vs LSU...then who.....a team that was beat by an unranked team or a team that was slaughtered by a team that lost by double digits to LSU? The BCS is not perfect but it is what we have ...I would love a plus one.....but don't penalize Alabama for playing in the toughest division in the Toughest conference that will win its sixth national championship in a row. The SEC is Football. We also pay our players better than any other conference...just ask Auburn....lol
  • halfcentmanhalfcentman Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If not Alabama vs LSU...then who.....a team that was beat by an unranked team or a team that was slaughtered by a team that lost by double digits to LSU? The BCS is not perfect but it is what we have ...I would love a plus one.....but don't penalize Alabama for playing in the toughest division in the Toughest conference that will win its sixth national championship in a row. The SEC is Football. We also pay our players better than any other conference...just ask Auburn....lol >>



    The BCS is flawed, but we will agree to disagree about Alabama.

    Your comment regarding Auburn is hilarious. The ESPN piece on the rivalry was solid. That guy who poisoned the trees needs a padded cell and thorazine.
  • jdip9jdip9 Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭
    I agree with halfcent on this one. If you can't even PLAY for your conference title, you don't deserve to play for the national title. I don't care if Alabama is CLEARLY the second best team in the country (with the third best team not even close). There are plenty of things that are unfair in sports, but I don't see it as an injustice if Alabama doesn't play in the BCS title game. Alabama controlled their own destiny and lost to LSU. They had their chance at the national championship at home a few weeks ago and couldn't get it done. As a result they should be watching an inferior Oklahoma St. or Stanford team play LSU instead.
  • BrickBrick Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree there are some things in sports that are unfair, however having the two best teams in the country playing for the championship is not one of them.
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  • mcadamsmcadams Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭
    OK State crushing OK could change things. Thats about it.
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  • mcadamsmcadams Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭
    And Greg- The SEC championship will never be a meaningless game. The BCS will come and go, but the SEC brand is the real deal. Trust me- LSU wants this.
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  • I scoff at the ridiculous overtime rule in college football.

    Imagine if Tom Osborne had the overtime rule in 1983 against Miami,Fla ?

    If we didn't have the overtime rule today, then we'd have a 10-0-1 LSU team playing a 10-0-1 Alabama team, and
    everyone would be drooling over the rematch, unless you were an SEC hater.
  • sagardsagard Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭
    This might be kind of fun with the heavyweights.

    20 Teams!


    It would dwarf March Madness and give the NFL a serious run for the money.

  • jdip9jdip9 Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭
    20 teams, huh? I guess the 16 that they had for years weren't quite enough to crown a champ fairly?...and there is already talk of expanding to 24.

    Hell, why stop there? Let's just let everyone in the tournament. We'll play college football throughout the entire "academic" year. Screw spring practice, that'll be when we hold the championship game!

    College athletics is becoming more of a joke with each passing day.
  • A simple eight team playoff would make tons of cash.

    I believe it would rival the NFL playoffs
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  • BrickBrick Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Any idea of the point spreads in the different matchups. And how much of an underdog would LSU be against Alabama?
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  • LSU would be the favorite. If it happens, fingers crossed, I would say that LSU will be a 2.5 favorite. The BCS game will be played in New Orleans. Not sure if that will be as much of a factor. Alabama fans travel very well.

    I believe that the tickets will be a even split, so the crowd maybe a even split too.

    I'm curious as to what the over/under would be
    Scoreboard Malfunction
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    The Powers That Be want all SEC, all the time.
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I suppose the real question would be-

    Can three teams from the SEC get into BCS Bowl Games?

    If Georgia wins, do they not get an automatic BCS Bowl bid?

    In the event of a Georgia upset and Alabama - LSU play in the so-called Title Game, that would make three and while that may be what the BCS standings say, I do not see that happening

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  • VitoCo1972VitoCo1972 Posts: 6,127 ✭✭✭


    << <i>LSU would be the favorite. If it happens, fingers crossed, I would say that LSU will be a 2.5 favorite. The BCS game will be played in New Orleans. Not sure if that will be as much of a factor. Alabama fans travel very well.

    I believe that the tickets will be a even split, so the crowd maybe a even split too.

    I'm curious as to what the over/under would be >>



    I would almost guarantee that the spread on a "neutral" field at the Sugar Bowl venue/Superdome would be LSU -3.5. The Tigers won at Alabama. That has to be taken into consideration. If it were 4, you'd have to bet Alabama. If it were 3 you'd have to bet LSU because they won on the road against the same team. The over under would in my opinion be 30.5. The reason being that all of America loves betting the over. It's a public bettor thing. That line would probably get even money on both sides.
  • The way college football is set up now is perfect. Every weekend is full of suspense as far as the national championship race is
    concerned. Every weekend is exciting for me. The college football playoffs begin in September, and they end in early December.
    It doesn't get any better then that.
  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭
    LSU is -1 1/2 against Alabama in the championship game.
  • PowderedH2OPowderedH2O Posts: 2,443 ✭✭
    The Powers That Be want all SEC, all the time.

    I really don't believe this. Let's look at the markets. This is a big country. Louisiana and Alabama are not exactly New York and California as far as population base. Nor are there millions of grads of these schools roaming about the country relocated to these large markets. Alabama has an enrollment of less than 29,000 students, and that is much more than they've had in the past. During the Bear Bryant era, Bama frequently had less than 10,000 students. LSU's enrollment is roughly the same. The two of them combined have roughly the same enrollment as Ohio State has on its Columbus campus. So, with relatively small alumni bases, and very small television markets, I just don't think the "Powers That Be" really want this game. They would LOVE to have seen Stanford, Oregon, Oklahoma State, Wisconsin, or any other part of the country jump in with a viable contender. If Oklahoma State wins today in a rout, it may come to pass. Also, a Georgia win over LSU might hurt Bama as well. I guess we will see...
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  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As good as Alabama is, I suspect there will be many complaints if OSU does not get a chance to play LSU. It seems a 34 point win against Oklahoma should mean something

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  • EstilEstil Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>As good as Alabama is, I suspect there will be many complaints if OSU does not get a chance to play LSU. It seems a 34 point win against Oklahoma should mean something >>



    Well they could get a regular BCS bowl, doesn't that count? After all, who saw Oklahoma State of all teams being a title contender?
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  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Off hand, I think Oklahoma State was a top 15 at the start- not sure where.

    Turning back to the beginning of the season, They were not my darkhorse as a contender for the National Title- Mine were Stanford and Wisconsin

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  • OSU has had a great season. Boone Pickens and Mike Gundy have done a fabulous job.
    Having said that, both Bama and LSU would defeat OSU.

    OSU is similar to Georgia and Arkansas. Very good on offense, and lots of holes on defense.
    OSU would lose by 14 to both Bama or LSU.

    The two best teams will be in the title game, but OSU has had a great season.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Off hand, I think Oklahoma State was a top 15 at the start- not sure where. >>



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  • EstilEstil Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭✭
    So I guess you could say Alabama got a "wild card" berth, so to speak.
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  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>OSU has had a great season. Boone Pickens and Mike Gundy have done a fabulous job.
    Having said that, both Bama and LSU would defeat OSU.

    OSU is similar to Georgia and Arkansas. Very good on offense, and lots of holes on defense.
    OSU would lose by 14 to both Bama or LSU.

    The two best teams will be in the title game, but OSU has had a great season. >>


    They obliterated a very good Oklahoma offense. Obviously they showed a lot of holes during the year but I think they would beat Alabama and would have a shot against LSU.

    Tabe
  • Oklahoma State gave up

    34 to Louisiana-Lafayette

    33 to Tulsa

    45 to Kansas State

    37 to Iowa State

    and 24 or more to five other teams.

    You can't take their two games against Oklahoma and Texas Tech and say they have any kind of defense.

    Alabama would easily put 40 on them, and ain't no way OSU scores more then 24 on Bama. Actually, no
    one scored 24 on Bama this year. Bama had 7 games of holding teams under 9 points. They had 4 games of
    holding teams between 10-14 points. The most points they gave up this year was 21 against Georgia Southern in
    their week before the Auburn game. I don't have to go into detail about why that happened.
  • Look at the point totals that LSU and Bama put up against other opponents. Then look at what they did against each other. OK State might put up a few more points against LSU, but they wouldn't likely have put up 38-45 or so. LSU's offense has been very good, and it is likely that they could score those kinds of points against OK State.
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  • bkingbking Posts: 3,095 ✭✭
    Sadly, all these arguments about how OSU would do against either LSU or Alabama are meaningless, as the voters denied them a chance to find out. We KNOW how the Alabama/LSU match will likely turn out, as LSU already defeated Alabama AT ALABAMA in what should have been the Tide's chance at the title.

    Personally, I don't think OSU can hold a candle to LSU, but it disappoints me that we don't get a chance to answer those questions. I kind of hope LSU absolutely rolls the Tide just to put a proper bow around this traveshamockery.
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  • bxbbxb Posts: 805 ✭✭
    Well, why should LSU have to beat Alabama again? Hasn't LSU clearly shown that they are the best team?

    I say skip the championship game this year - we already know who the best team is.
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  • << <i>Well, why should LSU have to beat Alabama again? Hasn't LSU clearly shown that they are the best team?

    I say skip the championship game this year - we already know who the best team is. >>




    If a 15-1 Packers team faces a 10-6 Denver team in the Super Bowl this year, should we cancel
    the Super Bowl because the Packers already beat the Broncos ?

    Should we just cancel the Super Bowl right now. We all know the Packers are the best team ?
  • bxbbxb Posts: 805 ✭✭
    Of course I was kidding- there is too much money involved.
    Capecards
  • halfcentmanhalfcentman Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Well, why should LSU have to beat Alabama again? Hasn't LSU clearly shown that they are the best team?

    I say skip the championship game this year - we already know who the best team is. >>




    If a 15-1 Packers team faces a 10-6 Denver team in the Super Bowl this year, should we cancel
    the Super Bowl because the Packers already beat the Broncos ?

    Should we just cancel the Super Bowl right now. We all know the Packers are the best team ? >>



    It's a different scenario, because one team did not have to sit on their butt and play zero games to get there with zero consequence.

    Also, the regular season in college is different than pro.

    The bottom line is that LSU could have lost 50-0, and Alabama did not have to even suit up.
  • HallcoHallco Posts: 3,622 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This reminds me a lot of 1996!! FSU beat Florida the last game of the regular season and then Florida won in the title game! I don't understand people saying that Alabama had their chance and blew it! 9-6?? What other team deserves to be there? Ok. St?? Are you kidding? Losing to a 30+point dog with Iowa State???? image Oregon, Stanford, Boise St and every other team had their chances and failed. Whether you want to admit it or not, these are the 2 best teams in college this year, Period!
  • bkingbking Posts: 3,095 ✭✭


    << <i>This reminds me a lot of 1996!! FSU beat Florida the last game of the regular season and then Florida won in the title game! I don't understand people saying that Alabama had their chance and blew it! 9-6?? What other team deserves to be there? Ok. St?? Are you kidding? Losing to a 30+point dog with Iowa State???? image Oregon, Stanford, Boise St and every other team had their chances and failed. Whether you want to admit it or not, these are the 2 best teams in college this year, Period! >>



    NO, we don't KNOW that they are the two best teams at all. Lots of evidence points to it being true, but the reality is that OSU has just as solid a claim on paper as Alabama does, and they may be entitled to a bit of a pass for losing an OT game within a day or two of a major loss of life in the Athletic Dept. No idea if that played any part in how they played that day, but I don't think it should be considered as just another "bad loss" that automatically knocks them out of it.

    IMO, the history of rematch games under the BCS umbrella doesn't really scream "that settles it" to me. We KNOW LSU can beat Alabama on the road; we don't know what they can do against OSU. And we won't find out either.
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  • HallcoHallco Posts: 3,622 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>We KNOW LSU can beat Alabama on the road; we don't know what they can do against OSU. And we won't find out either. >>



    IF....(and this is a big IF)....OK ST beats Stanford in the Fiesta Bowl...I will retract my statement, deal? image
  • bkingbking Posts: 3,095 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>We KNOW LSU can beat Alabama on the road; we don't know what they can do against OSU. And we won't find out either. >>



    IF....(and this is a big IF)....OK ST beats Stanford in the Fiesta Bowl...I will retract my statement, deal? image >>



    Deal, but are retractions even ALLOWED on this board??? image
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  • << <i>If a 15-1 Packers team faces a 10-6 Denver team in the Super Bowl this year, should we cancel the Super Bowl because the Packers already beat the Broncos ? Should we just cancel the Super Bowl right now. We all know the Packers are the best team ? >>



    A couple of things are wrong with this analogy, although it is a good one to bring up.

    First, there is a playoff in the NFL. Denver got into the playoffs and did beat several teams before getting into the Super Bowl. In a way, they "earned" their rematch.

    Now, you can say - "well, that just means the regular season is meaningless in the NFL. In any given sunday, right? A team could beat a better team because of chance or what have you. College football is securing the integrity of the regular season by using the BCS and pitting the two best teams against one another according to regular season games. The BCE eliminates luck, chance, weather conditions and other aspects not within reasonable team control that allow two subpar teams to play for a championship."

    But, that assertion assumes that the regular season in college football is a good representation of how good a team is relative to another. It isnt. In fact, because football is such a violent sport that requires a week's rest between games, a playoff more than in any other sport is useful and not merely just a spectacle for the fan. Think back to when baseball pitted the best NL team and the best AL team in the world series. Why was that any better than the BCS? Because these two teams played 162 (and 154 before 1961) games with roughly equal schedules. That's plenty of information (i.e. large sample size), specifically quantitative data, to assert with reasonable justification that these two teams are the best for that given year. Now, baseball split into 2 divisions and subsequently 3. I wasnt in favor of it, but for the sake of the casual fan, I had to suck it in. At the very least, they still adhered to statistical theory by forcing teams within the same division to play most of their games against one another so we can can reasonably assert that, for instance, the team with the most wins in the AL East is the best team in that division. Of course, now we have interleague play and an additional wild card and, well, now it's getting close to picking teams out of a hat.

    Football, professional or college, can't produce a reasonable sample size of games played because of the nature of the game. So, why not just play it out on the field? It's more exciting and it doesnt offend those who know what large sample size, law of large numbers, and other statistical jargon means.

    As many have noted already on this thread, the SEC *seems* or *looks* or *feels* like the best division. But, we dont really know. Why? Because we dont have enough games featuring teams in the other BCS conferences playing the SEC. The BIG 12 SUCKS AND CANT HOLD A CANDLE AGAINST THE SEC! We can say OSU is going to get blown out by LSU or Bama. But, we dont have any real, hard evidence that can support that. We have an eye test...the entire system is largely built on that. OK, that's fine with me....Bama and LSU look better. If that's our reasoning, why even have the BCS machine? Throw it out and just let the coaches pick the two teams. The BCS is supposed to take in quantitative information to get the best teams to play for the national championship. But, the data is faulty. And analysts and fans typically use eye tests and qualitative info to justify why certain teams are better than others. Throw this pretense out (i.e. throw the BCS out and let the coaches/fans/analysts/players pick based on whatever info they have available) or get a playoff system.
  • bkingbking Posts: 3,095 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>If a 15-1 Packers team faces a 10-6 Denver team in the Super Bowl this year, should we cancel the Super Bowl because the Packers already beat the Broncos ? Should we just cancel the Super Bowl right now. We all know the Packers are the best team ? >>



    A couple of things are wrong with this analogy, although it is a good one to bring up.

    First, there is a playoff in the NFL. Denver got into the playoffs and did beat several teams before getting into the Super Bowl. In a way, they "earned" their rematch.

    Now, you can say - "well, that just means the regular season is meaningless in the NFL. In any given sunday, right? A team could beat a better team because of chance or what have you. College football is securing the integrity of the regular season by using the BCS and pitting the two best teams against one another according to regular season games. The BCE eliminates luck, chance, weather conditions and other aspects not within reasonable team control that allow two subpar teams to play for a championship."

    But, that assertion assumes that the regular season in college football is a good representation of how good a team is relative to another. It isnt. In fact, because football is such a violent sport that requires a week's rest between games, a playoff more than in any other sport is useful and not merely just a spectacle for the fan. Think back to when baseball pitted the best NL team and the best AL team in the world series. Why was that any better than the BCS? Because these two teams played 162 (and 154 before 1961) games with roughly equal schedules. That's plenty of information (i.e. large sample size), specifically quantitative data, to assert with reasonable justification that these two teams are the best for that given year. Now, baseball split into 2 divisions and subsequently 3. I wasnt in favor of it, but for the sake of the casual fan, I had to suck it in. At the very least, they still adhered to statistical theory by forcing teams within the same division to play most of their games against one another so we can can reasonably assert that, for instance, the team with the most wins in the AL East is the best team in that division. Of course, now we have interleague play and an additional wild card and, well, now it's getting close to picking teams out of a hat.

    Football, professional or college, can't produce a reasonable sample size of games played because of the nature of the game. So, why not just play it out on the field? It's more exciting and it doesnt offend those who know what large sample size, law of large numbers, and other statistical jargon means.

    As many have noted already on this thread, the SEC *seems* or *looks* or *feels* like the best division. But, we dont really know. Why? Because we dont have enough games featuring teams in the other BCS conferences playing the SEC. The BIG 12 SUCKS AND CANT HOLD A CANDLE AGAINST THE SEC! We can say OSU is going to get blown out by LSU or Bama. But, we dont have any real, hard evidence that can support that. We have an eye test...the entire system is largely built on that. OK, that's fine with me....Bama and LSU look better. If that's our reasoning, why even have the BCS machine? Throw it out and just let the coaches pick the two teams. The BCS is supposed to take in quantitative information to get the best teams to play for the national championship. But, the data is faulty. And analysts and fans typically use eye tests and qualitative info to justify why certain teams are better than others. Throw this pretense out (i.e. throw the BCS out and let the coaches/fans/analysts/players pick based on whatever info they have available) or get a playoff system. >>



    Great explanation of the flaws of SSS.
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  • I agree that playing it out on the field is a great way to determine who is the best.

    And the past five national champions have come from the SEC.

    Does that tell us that the SEC has the best top teams in the country ?
    Or does it tell us that the Big 12, Pac-10, and ACC have the best teams ?
  • bkingbking Posts: 3,095 ✭✭


    << <i>I agree that playing it out on the field is a great way to determine who is the best.

    And the past five national champions have come from the SEC.

    Does that tell us that the SEC has the best top teams in the country ?
    Or does it tell us that the Big 12, Pac-10, and ACC have the best teams ? >>



    Well, since Alabama played ONE meaningful game outside the conference (Penn State) to go along with those well-known powerhouses Kent State, North Texas and Georgia Southern, it really doesn't tell me much about them. Well, at least not ON the field.
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  • I'm an LSU fan, and I'd prefer to play Oklahoma State because LSU already has beaten Alabama in Tuscaloosa. I feel that OK State should get the next shot. But, that being said, I still think Bama is a better team. I'd really love to see a playoff. But not a 4 team deal. I'd like a 16 team playoff. That would get the Boise States and the TCUs in there and it would be a wild shootout.
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  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PoweredH20

    As much as I would like a 16 team playoff that also to would have it's grippers. Teams 17 and 18 would be howling like wolves. Michigan State and TCU wouldn't make the 16 team format if the BCS was followed ( a mix of polls and computers). Again it would be great theater. MJ
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  • BrickBrick Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It would be better to have team # 17 or even team #9 moaning and complaining than perhaps team #2
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  • jdip9jdip9 Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭
    <<<It would be better to have team # 17 or even team #9 moaning and complaining than perhaps team #2>>>

    +1

    Did anyone see some of the asinine voting that played a part in the BCS rankings?

    When the BCS first came out, everyone criticized how awful the computers were...now they are the most reliable part of the equation!!
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