unregulated corruption at all levels, no one held accountable. Seems to be generally acceptable by most of the population. the sad part is watching corruption wind its way down the food chain to where it is now in our schools with teachers (see Atlanta) and educators changing student tests to aquire more funding. It is slowly becoming the norm in American life.
"The United States is quickly becoming a post industrial neo-3rd-world country. Partly as a consequence of worsening unemployment and lack of economic opportunity, falling real wages and household incomes, growing poverty and increasing concentration of wealth, the U.S. government faces a historic fiscal crisis. Dominant corporate influence over the U.S. government, particularly by large banks, weakening rule of law at the federal level and destructive tax policies are compounding the economic problems facing the United States. Barring fundamental reforms or a hyperinflationary collapse of the U.S. dollar (due to the fiscal problems of the U.S. government), the deterioration of the U.S. economy will continue and accelerate. As the U.S. economy continues its decline, public health, nutrition and education, as well as the country’s infrastructure, will visibly deteriorate and the 3rd world status of the United States will become apparent."
<< <i>3rd world status of the United States will become apparent."
That may be the funniest comment i've ever heard. I guess Ethiopia will be, what, 9th world? >>
Between the disparity in incomes, the decline of cumulative wealth of the country from about $74 trillion four years ago to about $58 trillion today and falling fast (A chart that would have been a useful illustration in that article), and burdensome govt regulation & policy that hampers capital formation, I can buy into the USA becoming a 2nd tier country very quickly.
<< <i>Would the top 1% would eventually flee the U.S. to a safe haven if we reach a third world status. >>
The USA has greater prospects than any other country. It will not become 2nd world, 3rd world, 4th world ect. The USA will attract $$$$$ for long after all of us are gone.
We lived beyond our means and now that we no longer can continue, it feels like the world is ending. The world is not ending.
the decline of cumulative wealth of the country from about $74 trillion four years ago to about $58 trillion today
That $74 trillion was based on excessive debt and mostly bubble. Its pop was expected and has nothing to do with future prospects. $58 trillion in "wealth" translates into $175,000 per every man, woman and child in the USA. We are not broke.
The financial world, as we have known it for many years, is coming to an end. Will the failure of a major US bank, say BoA, convince you? Stand by.
So what would happen? We all live like my Amish neighbors?
Banks have been lending money, making good and bad loans, for 100s of years. And they will continue in the future.
BTW--I firmly believe all the banks failed in 2008. And as a result, some things cost more and some cost less, but we're all still here, the sun comes up, and my kids go to school.
And if you believe PMs will "go da moon", then you should welcome this "coming to an end".
The only thing I believe will happen, is the much welcomed end to excessive spending and debt. I do not believe PMs will flourish, but rather perform just like any other asset.
the decline of cumulative wealth of the country from about $74 trillion four years ago to about $58 trillion today
That $74 trillion was based on excessive debt and mostly bubble. Its pop was expected and has nothing to do with future prospects. $58 trillion in "wealth" translates into $175,000 per every man, woman and child in the USA. We are not broke. >>
According to USDebtClock.org the cumulative debt of every man, women, and child in the USA is $174k and rising fast...we are broke. What I wrote originally was that we are headed towards becoming a 2nd tier country, and we are.
There are certainly parts of the U.S. that have a 3rd world look. People living in vans or old mobile homes, sewage dumped out to the street. garbage piled in heaps. That said, it is more like 3% living like that, not 99%, with maybe another 3% without the van, entirely without shelter.
The 50% figure from Baley might be about right. About 50% don't save any money, and always seem to seek to avail themselves to more and more debt. There are now car equity loans, rent a wheel programs so a person doesn't even own their wheels and rims. To a frugal person it seems an absurd parody, but in some segments of society, renting $2000 rims for their $5000 vehicle sounds like a good deal and normal activity. I doubt the culture of borrowing will change without more pain.
As for BofA going under or similar, that is part of a normal business cycle, though perhaps a longer cycle. American Airlines just filed for bankruptcy, once a strong and vibrant company.
It is mostly hype about the U. S. becoming 3rd world. Again, a big reason wealth is concentrated is because half the population makes no effort, has no interest in saving. That half will never have any wealth as long as they choose to live that way. Even if the government handed them each a bundle of money, they would quickly spend it and be mostly back where they are, perhaps with nicer rims on a nicer car that will soon need replacing.
When half the population doesn't pay any Federal income tax, they have no skin in the game. It is no surprise that half would like the other half to pay even more, because they know the current chief doesn't dare ask them to put any money in, or take any less out.
<< <i>The financial world, as we have known it for many years, is coming to an end. Will the failure of a major US bank, say BoA, convince you? Stand by.
So what would happen? We all live like my Amish neighbors?
Banks have been lending money, making good and bad loans, for 100s of years. And they will continue in the future.
BTW--I firmly believe all the banks failed in 2008. And as a result, some things cost more and some cost less, but we're all still here, the sun comes up, and my kids go to school.
And if you believe PMs will "go da moon", then you should welcome this "coming to an end".
The only thing I believe will happen, is the much welcomed end to excessive spending and debt. I do not believe PMs will flourish, but rather perform just like any other asset. >>
I think you may be a bit too comfortable. Go research a bit about about the Argentina currency collapse. Coming to a theater near you. One of these days people will wake up and wonder what happened? While they were watching their Netflix movies and Dancing with the stars their country was being stolen out from underneath them.
The problem as I see it is the rampant corruption that is now taking place. The country is being LOOTED, at all levels, including the top. Whether it is a congressman with bundles of cash found in a freezer, insider trading on IPO offerings by an ex speaker of the house (and others), insider trading in Congress prior to bills being passed, Madoff, billion/trillion dollar payouts to the big banks, government takeover of private industry, global warming scam, green industry scams, unwillingness of government to enforce laws such as border control, you can fill in many,many more examples. And of course, it is happening at lower levels also.... medicare scams, insurance scams, etc. The quick examples I gave above are the first ones that have come to my mind, and is not intended to infer one political party over another. As far as I am concerned, there is complicity by each.
I've never seen this amount of corruption taking place during my lifetime, but then perhaps I just never paid enough attention 30 years ago, etc. But I suspect this time period can rival any other in the history of our country, such as the robber baron era, etc.
Make no mistake about it. Corruption can destroy a country. No empire lasts forever, which will be apparent when one rechecks their history books. If I am not mistaken, Roman Empire was taken down due to corruption (or at least it was a very big part of it). And it can happen to this country. Until we can get the corruption under control, I do not see much hope that we can arrest the downward spiral. Until the focus is truly once again on what is best for the country overall, instead of what each person can stuff into their pockets at the expense of others, we have more troubles to follow. Meanwhile, the looting continues.
"The United States increasingly resembles a 3rd world country in terms of unemployment, lack of economic opportunity, falling wages, growing poverty and concentration of wealth, government debt, corporate influence over government and weakening rule of law. Federal Reserve monetary policies and federal government economic, regulatory and tax policies seem to favor the largest banks and corporations over the interests of small businesses or of the general population. The potential elimination of the middle class could reshape the socioeconomic strata of American society in the image of a 3rd world country. It seems only a matter of time before the devolution of the United States becomes more visible. As the U.S. economy continues to decline, public health, nutrition and education, as well as the country’s infrastructure, will visibly deteriorate. There is little evidence of political will or leadership for fundamental reforms. All other things being equal, the U.S. will become a post industrial neo-3rd-world country by 2032."
For those that believe great countries always remain great, dig out your history books. Unfortunately, when warnings are ignored or denied by those wearing blinders bad things do happen. 2008 could have been avoided.
No offense meant, but i'd rather be comfortable than parnoid. The USA is not going to be Argentina, Weimar Republic or Zimbabwe. I think its great that people prepare for the type of events, but quite frankly, I've got better things to do with my time. Just different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
According to USDebtClock.org the cumulative debt of every man, women, and child in the USA is $174k and rising fast...we are broke
People walk away from debt all the time. That isnt right, but it happens. They never walk away from assets. So the USA defaults, what does this mean? We pay interest rates on debt we dont have? Our currency is free from the shackles of being a "reserve".
In other news: Coin Star has probably paid out 13 billion dollars to keep smart shoppers in the money at the grocer, as well as helping rid society of that pesky change we all hate so much.
Over half of your "middle 50%" are living on a government job, government retirement check, medicare, government subsidies etc. Take away all those props and see how fast that middle 50% join the bottom 3%.
57loaded
Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭
Comments
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
But it's the TRILLIONs of dollars in "gifts" that are more concerning....as well as this "gift" of F&F:
How Hank Paulson gave hedge funds a heads up on the Fannie and Freddie rescue
roadrunner
"The United States is quickly becoming a post industrial neo-3rd-world country. Partly as a consequence of worsening unemployment and lack of economic opportunity, falling real wages and household incomes, growing poverty and increasing concentration of wealth, the U.S. government faces a historic fiscal crisis. Dominant corporate influence over the U.S. government, particularly by large banks, weakening rule of law at the federal level and destructive tax policies are compounding the economic problems facing the United States. Barring fundamental reforms or a hyperinflationary collapse of the U.S. dollar (due to the fiscal problems of the U.S. government), the deterioration of the U.S. economy will continue and accelerate. As the U.S. economy continues its decline, public health, nutrition and education, as well as the country’s infrastructure, will visibly deteriorate and the 3rd world status of the United States will become apparent."
Welcome to the 3rd World
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
That may be the funniest comment i've ever heard. I guess Ethiopia will be, what, 9th world?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>3rd world status of the United States will become apparent."
That may be the funniest comment i've ever heard. I guess Ethiopia will be, what, 9th world? >>
The remaining 99% won't find it very funny. Consider yourself very fortunate.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
<< <i>3rd world status of the United States will become apparent."
That may be the funniest comment i've ever heard. I guess Ethiopia will be, what, 9th world? >>
Between the disparity in incomes, the decline of cumulative wealth of the country from about $74 trillion four years ago to about $58 trillion today and falling fast (A chart that would have been a useful illustration in that article), and burdensome govt regulation & policy that hampers capital formation, I can buy into the USA becoming a 2nd tier country very quickly.
Box of 20
<< <i>Would the top 1% would eventually flee the U.S. to a safe haven if we reach a third world status. >>
The USA has greater prospects than any other country. It will not become 2nd world, 3rd world, 4th world ect. The USA will attract $$$$$ for long after all of us are gone.
We lived beyond our means and now that we no longer can continue, it feels like the world is ending. The world is not ending.
the decline of cumulative wealth of the country from about $74 trillion four years ago to about $58 trillion today
That $74 trillion was based on excessive debt and mostly bubble. Its pop was expected and has nothing to do with future prospects. $58 trillion in "wealth" translates into $175,000 per every man, woman and child in the USA. We are not broke.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Would the top 1% would eventually flee the U.S. to a safe haven if we reach a third world status. >>
Many if not most of the 1% hold dual citizenship and as a minimum, multiple passports.
<< <i>We lived beyond our means and now that we no longer can continue, it feels like the world is ending. The world is not ending. >>
The financial world, as we have known it for many years, is coming to an end. Will the failure of a major US bank, say BoA, convince you? Stand by.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
So what would happen? We all live like my Amish neighbors?
Banks have been lending money, making good and bad loans, for 100s of years. And they will continue in the future.
BTW--I firmly believe all the banks failed in 2008. And as a result, some things cost more and some cost less, but we're all still here, the sun comes up, and my kids go to school.
And if you believe PMs will "go da moon", then you should welcome this "coming to an end".
The only thing I believe will happen, is the much welcomed end to excessive spending and debt. I do not believe PMs will flourish, but rather perform just like any other asset.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I consider myself very fortunate to be among the 50%.
This "99%" business is BS; Or is anyone seriously claiming that those in the top half are suffering?
Put another way, our "poor" here in the USA would be among the top 10% in living standard in a true "3rd world" country.
I'll tell you what the middle 50% is getting sick and tired of: Hyperbole
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
the decline of cumulative wealth of the country from about $74 trillion four years ago to about $58 trillion today
That $74 trillion was based on excessive debt and mostly bubble. Its pop was expected and has nothing to do with future prospects. $58 trillion in "wealth" translates into $175,000 per every man, woman and child in the USA. We are not broke. >>
According to USDebtClock.org the cumulative debt of every man, women, and child in the USA is $174k and rising fast...we are broke.
The 50% figure from Baley might be about right. About 50% don't save any money, and always seem to seek to avail themselves to more and more debt. There are now car equity loans, rent a wheel programs so a person doesn't even own their wheels and rims. To a frugal person it seems an absurd parody, but in some segments of society, renting $2000 rims for their $5000 vehicle sounds like a good deal and normal activity. I doubt the culture of borrowing will change without more pain.
As for BofA going under or similar, that is part of a normal business cycle, though perhaps a longer cycle. American Airlines just filed for bankruptcy, once a strong and vibrant company.
It is mostly hype about the U. S. becoming 3rd world. Again, a big reason wealth is concentrated is because half the population makes no effort, has no interest in saving. That half will never have any wealth as long as they choose to live that way. Even if the government handed them each a bundle of money, they would quickly spend it and be mostly back where they are, perhaps with nicer rims on a nicer car that will soon need replacing.
When half the population doesn't pay any Federal income tax, they have no skin in the game. It is no surprise that half would like the other half to pay even more, because they know the current chief doesn't dare ask them to put any money in, or take any less out.
<< <i>The financial world, as we have known it for many years, is coming to an end. Will the failure of a major US bank, say BoA, convince you? Stand by.
So what would happen? We all live like my Amish neighbors?
Banks have been lending money, making good and bad loans, for 100s of years. And they will continue in the future.
BTW--I firmly believe all the banks failed in 2008. And as a result, some things cost more and some cost less, but we're all still here, the sun comes up, and my kids go to school.
And if you believe PMs will "go da moon", then you should welcome this "coming to an end".
The only thing I believe will happen, is the much welcomed end to excessive spending and debt. I do not believe PMs will flourish, but rather perform just like any other asset. >>
I think you may be a bit too comfortable. Go research a bit about about the Argentina currency collapse. Coming to a theater near you. One of these days people will wake up and wonder what happened? While they were watching their Netflix movies and Dancing with the stars their country was being stolen out from underneath them.
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
I've never seen this amount of corruption taking place during my lifetime, but then perhaps I just never paid enough attention 30 years ago, etc. But I suspect this time period can rival any other in the history of our country, such as the robber baron era, etc.
Make no mistake about it. Corruption can destroy a country. No empire lasts forever, which will be apparent when one rechecks their history books. If I am not mistaken, Roman Empire was taken down due to corruption (or at least it was a very big part of it). And it can happen to this country. Until we can get the corruption under control, I do not see much hope that we can arrest the downward spiral. Until the focus is truly once again on what is best for the country overall, instead of what each person can stuff into their pockets at the expense of others, we have more troubles to follow. Meanwhile, the looting continues.
"The United States increasingly resembles a 3rd world country in terms of unemployment, lack of economic opportunity, falling wages, growing poverty and concentration of wealth, government debt, corporate influence over government and weakening rule of law. Federal Reserve monetary policies and federal government economic, regulatory and tax policies seem to favor the largest banks and corporations over the interests of small businesses or of the general population. The potential elimination of the middle class could reshape the socioeconomic strata of American society in the image of a 3rd world country. It seems only a matter of time before the devolution of the United States becomes more visible. As the U.S. economy continues to decline, public health, nutrition and education, as well as the country’s infrastructure, will visibly deteriorate. There is little evidence of political will or leadership for fundamental reforms. All other things being equal, the U.S. will become a post industrial neo-3rd-world country by 2032."
For those that believe great countries always remain great, dig out your history books. Unfortunately, when warnings are ignored or denied by those wearing blinders bad things do happen. 2008 could have been avoided.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
No offense meant, but i'd rather be comfortable than parnoid. The USA is not going to be Argentina, Weimar Republic or Zimbabwe. I think its great that people prepare for the type of events, but quite frankly, I've got better things to do with my time. Just different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
According to USDebtClock.org the cumulative debt of every man, women, and child in the USA is $174k and rising fast...we are broke
People walk away from debt all the time. That isnt right, but it happens. They never walk away from assets. So the USA defaults, what does this mean? We pay interest rates on debt we dont have? Our currency is free from the shackles of being a "reserve".
I dont speak Spanish, but it doesnt look all that bad in Buenos Aires.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
"Secret loans...."
In other news:
Coin Star has probably paid out 13 billion dollars to keep smart shoppers in the money at the grocer, as well as helping rid society of that pesky change we all hate so much.
<< <i> $58 trillion in "wealth" translates into $175,000 per every man, woman and child in the USA. We are not broke. >>
It may translate to that BUT does every man, woman and child have 175.000?
Sounds like something Hannity would say.