PWCC is going to be BUSY this week!!

bobbyw8469 · November 20, 2011 11:03PM

...Has everyone seen the previews?? 1,500 lots!! They are being stretched out over 5 days. I don't like the fact that the individual descriptions for the lots appears to be gone, and a generic "One of 1,500 lots up for auction this week" however. So my question is this.....is there ever a point when an auction house gets "too big" and one ceases to use them?

leadoff4 · November 21, 2011 3:02AM

I concur about the individual descriptions being gone. That is Brent's specialty in my opinion.

RonBurgundy · November 21, 2011 7:53AM

It's probably not without reason that Brent did this. My guess? Idiot buyers threatening negs based on his descriptions......despite the fact he scans every card.

thunderdan · November 21, 2011 8:29AM

<< It's probably not without reason that Brent did this. My guess? Idiot buyers threatening negs based on his descriptions......despite the fact he scans every card. >>

Tom, I have bought a number of high grade cards from Brent. While I have never threatened to neg him, I do feel his descriptions are WAY over the top sometimes. By over the top, I mean not accurate. The lesson I learned long ago: discount Brent's sales puffery by at least 1 grade. He's a hard salesman working on behalf of his consigning clients, which I have no issue with; however, I have taken his "descriptions" with a huge grain of salt. That's not to say he doesn't have great cards--he certainly does--but his descriptions are definitely NOT always accurate.

You know as well as anyone else that scans don't always tell the entire story. There are things you see with card in hand that don't show up in even Brent's scans.

WalterSobchak · November 21, 2011 8:35AM

<< Tom, I have bought a number of high grade cards from Brent. While I have never threatened to neg him, I do feel his descriptions are WAY over the top sometimes. By over the top, I mean not accurate. The lesson I learned long ago: discount Brent's sales puffery by at least 1 grade. He's a hard salesman working on behalf of his consigning clients, which I have no issue with; however, I have taken his "descriptions" with a huge grain of salt. That's not to say he doesn't have great cards--he certainly does--but his descriptions are definitely NOT always accurate.

You know as well as anyone else that scans don't always tell the entire story. There are things you see with card in hand that don't show up in even Brent's scans. >>

+1 for use of the word "puffery". I don't think I've heard that word since my first journalism class in college.

SDavid · November 21, 2011 8:45AM

Is he still giving condition breakdowns or any type of description for complete sets or is he just using scans? I thought about consigning a few sets with him when I complete them--that's why I'm asking.

thunderdan · November 21, 2011 8:49AM

<< puffery

1. high end
2. ultra high end
3. super duper high end
4. ridiculously high end
5. this-should-be-a-PSA-10!

and if the description is blank, can we assume ...

1. average end
2. barely meets PSA standards for the grade
3. how did the card get into this holder?
4. buy the card, not the holder!
5. did the grader go to the helen keller school of grading? >>

Nearly every description he wrote before included something along the lines of "high end for the grade." That's just BS. Not every 7 or 8 is high end for the grade. Not every card was undergraded.

RonBurgundy · November 21, 2011 9:00AM

I don't disagree with any of the above comments, but that doesn't make Brent any worse than any other major seller. What does make him better is the fact he scans almost every card, which in my view ought to eliminate almost all major snad issues. Little ones, sure, half grade below, yep, but my only point was he's probably not immune to what every other seller is going through.

Edited to add: when I see something in his auctions that interest me, & it's costly, I call him. He's been good with me about describing items. Sometimes I bid higher on an item, at other times I've declined to bid. I appreciate that accessibility.

thunderdan · November 21, 2011 9:11AM

<< I don't disagree with any of the above comments, but that doesn't make Brent any worse than any other major seller. What does make him better is the fact he scans almost every card, which in my view ought to eliminate almost all major snad issues. Little ones, sure, half grade below, yep, but my only point was he's probably not immune to what every other seller is going through. >>

Whether or not Brent is better/worse than any other reseller was not the question raised. His scans are far superior to Probstein's, actually. By a mile. He actually writes a description, which I would rather have than not. That's more than Probstein gives us, and these two guys are the leaders as far as vintage consignment, IMHO. My point is Brent's descriptions are WAY overhyped. Not accurate in many, many instances.

Not sure what you mean by he's "not immune to what every other seller is going through." Regardless of what you implied in your earlier comment, there are PLENTY of smart buyers out there willing to buy again and again from honest sellers who accurately describe their cards.

bobbyw8469 · November 21, 2011 9:16AM

I understand that not EVERY card is undergraded and "high-end" for the grade, however, I do believe that SOME cards are definitely better looking that the assigned grade!

thunderdan · November 21, 2011 9:22AM

Bobby, you should send that bad boy to Brent. He'll swear that this was a PSA 6 and that the grader was asleep at the switch. Let me predict how his puffery goes: "how is this a PSA 5? what on earth was the grader thinking." Anything below a PSA 6 is highway robbery."

About right?

RonBurgundy · November 21, 2011 9:26AM

Good grief, does every discussion on this board have to escalate into a gunbattle? Look, I don't disagree that Brent hypes his stuff excessively on occasion. That makes him different than any other Ebay seller, how? I'm not defending the guy, it's called The Way It Is on Ebay (great song by Hornsby btw).

There have been dozens, if not hundreds, of threads on this board about buyers threatening or hammering sellers with negs or low DSR's in an unwarranted fashion. Some sellers deserve it; others do not. The sole point of my original comment was about bad buyers driving sellers off Ebay, or forcing them to adjust their selling tactics, sometimes making descriptions worse, not better. You were talking about his listings being overhyped. We're talking past each other.

What he does is no different than what I see in the multitude of auction catalogs I get each month that go straight to my recycling bin. That does not justify it for a second, but that's not what I was talking about in my original thread. Frankly, I wish I'd never commented - the tone of these boards is why I find myself posting less and less.

SDavid · November 21, 2011 9:38AM

I honestly didn't even know he described individual graded cards--I've never bothered to read one from any seller.

However, I do think it would be a mistake to remove descriptions from vintage sets/lots if that's what he's doing. A lot of newbie buyers aren't going to feel comfortable dropping a few grand on a set based on pictures alone, but a lot of times they're the ones who will push the bidding into the upper stratosphere.

thunderdan · November 21, 2011 9:39AM

<< It's probably not without reason that Brent did this. My guess? Idiot buyers threatening negs based on his descriptions......despite the fact he scans every card.

<< 

Tom, not everything is a gun battle at all. I take umbrage with you referring to us "idiot buyers." I am an educated buyer. I reward sellers that accurately decribe their listings not only with strong, strong bids, but repeat bids.

The change to Brent's strategy isn't all born of "idiot buyers" similar to your guess above. It is also due to Brent's overhyped descriptions.

Tell you what? You list something I really like in high grade. Don't overhype the card. Don't tell me it should have been a 9 when it has been graded an 8 five times through your resubs. I will bid strong for it, buy it, pay immediately, leave you 5 star feedback across the board, and buy from you again. You can even add me to your spam list (if you have one), like the Krukster. Agreed?

bobbyw8469 · November 21, 2011 9:55AM

I too apologize. I didn't mean to engage in a gun battle. I will say this for Brent though. He has some of the best scans of cards on Ebay. I would be curious to know what type of scanner he uses. He scans against a black background. You can pretty much see what you are getting when you buy from Brent. If he hypes up a card, so be it. Pop reports don't lie, and I believe the scans should do the talking! What I don't like, is the same generic description for a $20 common, as with a $2,000 HOF rookie card. I appreciate knowing that it is a 1 of 3 or whatever, as I don't like always having to do the research, and would prefer to see it listed for me......

thunderdan · November 21, 2011 10:01AM

<< I too apologize. I didn't mean to engage in a gun battle. I will say this for Brent though. He has some of the best scans of cards on Ebay. I would be curious to know what type of scanner he uses. He scans against a black background. You can pretty much see what you are getting when you buy from Brent. If he hypes up a card, so be it. Pop reports don't lie, and I believe the scans should do the talking! What I don't like, is the same generic description for a $20 common, as with a $2,000 HOF rookie card. I appreciate knowing that it is a 1 of 3 or whatever, as I don't like always having to do the research, and would prefer to see it listed for me...... >>

Bobby, I agree he has the BEST scans of any of the vintage consigners. There are subtleties of a high grade card that don't come through on a scanner, as you surely can appreciate. It's not my experience that he hypes a $20 common the same way he hypes a $2,000 HOF RC card that has been mercilessly undergraded. I don't need the pop stats. What I need is a little less puffery.

Dpeck100 · November 21, 2011 10:08AM

I have only bought one card from him but I do follow his auctions just to see high end items sell and I like the descriptions.

He may over a hype a card but I have never studied them long enough to know. That being said I think trying to capture the imagination of buyers is an excellent selling tool and I do the same. I am a tiny seller and really just a collector but getting people excited can not hurt.

I will say I think buyers see a major seller and value their opinion and his hyping works and the number of eye balls he gets to view his auctions is a huge plus.

thunderdan · November 21, 2011 10:14AM

<< I will say I think buyers see a major seller and value their opinion and his hyping works and the number of eye balls he gets to view his auctions is a huge plus. >>

From a consigner perspective, I couldn't agree more. He gets great prices for his auctions. No doubt about it. The question really becomes: when you continue to overhype your auctions, how long do buyers continue to patronage your storefront?

For me, as a buyer, I can tell you with utter certainty, that my bids on PWCC auctions have decreased dramatically because of the puffery and outlandish descriptions.

70ToppsFanatic · November 21, 2011 10:22AM

<< 

<< I will say I think buyers see a major seller and value their opinion and his hyping works and the number of eye balls he gets to view his auctions is a huge plus. >>

From a consigner perspective, I couldn't agree more. He gets great prices for his auctions. No doubt about it. The question really becomes: when you continue to overhype your auctions, how long do buyers continue to patronage your storefront?

For me, as a buyer, I can tell you with utter certainty, that my bids on PWCC auctions have decreased dramatically because of the puffery and outlandish descriptions. >>

+1 Any bids I place on PWCC auctions are based on the scans, not the descriptions. That being said, I find Brent to be one of the best in the business.

Dpeck100 · November 21, 2011 10:25AM

Thunderdan if I was buying cards in your price range I would be just as cautious as you.

thunderdan · November 21, 2011 10:25AM

<< +1 Any bids I place on PWCC auctions are based on the scans, not the descriptions. That being said, I find Brent to be one of the best in the business. >>

Exactly, Dave. Brent is a great guy. My whole point is that I discount his puffery -1 grades. I go by the scans alone these days. Sounds like that's all that he'll provide going forward.

thunderdan · November 21, 2011 10:26AM

<< Thunderdan if I was buying cards in your price range I would be just as cautious as you. >>

Belive me...I have learned by experience.

Dpeck100 · November 21, 2011 10:37AM

I got boned buying high end BGS Wrestling All Stars and I proceed with dramatically more caution then I used too.

You live and you learn and quite frankly I think to really get a strong understanding of this hobby you must have some failures that hurt.

thunderdan · November 21, 2011 10:41AM

<< I got boned buying high end BGS Wrestling All Stars and I proceed with dramatically more caution then I used too.

You live and you learn and quite frankly I think to really get a strong understanding of this hobby you must have some failures that hurt. >>

Yes, you live and learn. I just read and read and ready about all the praises heaped upon Rick and Brent. They are not perfect, but then again, nobody is.

SOM · November 21, 2011 12:44PM

Every current auction of Brent's that I have checked has a complete description along with his usual terrific scans.

???

CW · November 21, 2011 1:05PM

Every seller uses "puffery" but Brent does not overhype his cards
or give false information. I've purchased 20-30 graded cards from
him over the years, and I was only disappointed with one card (which
I was able to return due to a wrinkle that we both overlooked).

I guess what I'm saying is if he touts a card as being "high end" or
"ultra high end" in the subtitle, it really IS high end (he doesn't throw
the term around freely). If the card is average for the grade, he points
out the card's strong points, but he doesn't overhype the card, IMO.

Of course, your mileage may vary, but a good scan is worth a thousand words.

BTW, browsing through the cards he's listing right now, he does still add descriptions
to some of the more "special" cards.

thunderdan · November 21, 2011 1:34PM

<< Every seller uses "puffery" but Brent does not overhype his cards
or give false information. I've purchased 20-30 graded cards from
him over the years, and I was only disappointed with one card (which
I was able to return due to a wrinkle that we both overlooked).

I guess what I'm saying is if he touts a card as being "high end" or
"ultra high end" in the subtitle, it really IS high end (he doesn't throw
the term around freely). If the card is average for the grade, he points
out the card's strong points, but he doesn't overhype the card, IMO.

Of course, your mileage may vary, but a good scan is worth a thousand words.

BTW, browsing through the cards he's listing right now, he does still add descriptions
to some of the more "special" cards. >>

I totally disagree with your assessment, but everyone can judge for themselves.

grote15 · November 21, 2011 3:12PM

I've never bought anything of significance from PWCC, but virtually every major auction house listing I read seems to be an exercise in hyperbole and embellishment. It's best to essentially discount the lot description and let your own judgment be your guide.

CollectorAtWork · November 21, 2011 6:54PM

I see descriptions on his listings, but I also see the puffery. On this PSA 4 Delong Gehrig: Link

"A beautiful example of this scarce issued Gehrig! Well centered with four square corners and surfaces worthy of a PSA 8! Even corner wear is all that downgrades. Impossible to locate a better Delong Gehrig for the money. Part of a near-complete Delong set up for bid. One of nearly 1500 single cards, lots, and sets up for auction. Click on the link above to view the other PWCC auction lots."

I don't think this PSA 4 is close to a PSA 8. PSA 5, maybe, not even close to 8.

msassin · November 21, 2011 7:12PM

<< Every current auction of Brent's that I have checked has a complete description along with his usual terrific scans.

??? >>

Yep.

bobbyw8469 · November 21, 2011 8:15PM

The generic descriptions were replaced with the puffery. He puts out a "preview" for his consignors that show what the auctions are going to look like. Due to time restraints because of the sheer volume of the lots this time, a generic description was put in for the lots. The individualized descriptions were put in at the last minute, and only then, for high dollar cards that warrant "puffery". In the future, if the lots keep getting bigger and bigger, the generic desciption might be applicable for ALL lots, and maybe an earlier starting time. Noone on the east coast wants to see items end at 1 and 2 in the morning on Ebay! I understand that he is going to switch from a bi-monthly schedule to a monthly auction. Maybe that will help with some of the congestion?

leadoff4 · November 21, 2011 9:55PM

His scans are by far the BEST on eBay. With his scans, I can tell all I need to know.

RonBurgundy · November 21, 2011 10:03PM

I think Tim summed it up.

aconte · November 22, 2011 12:16AM

<< His scans are by far the BEST on eBay. With his scans, I can tell all I need to know. >>

Yep!

+1

aconte

WalterSobchak · November 22, 2011 12:55AM

<< The upper left corner of this card is pretty wrecked, bottom left and bottom right are a bit messed up too ... plus there might be some surface issue not coming through in the scan. Great centering though. >>

The Hubbell appears to me to be graded accurately (but it does have great eye appeal for a 5).

CDsNuts · November 22, 2011 8:43AM

I can't speak for singles but I have a handful of 70s sets going up that I think he graded accurately. I have a 71 Topps baseball set where he describes the Munson as EX+ when it was previously in a PSA 6 slab before I cracked it.

I had these sets on ebay for a while and they didn't move so I'm giving them a shot with him. If anything, my descriptions were more puffy.....puffery.......pufferier.......over-hyped than his are.

detroitfan2 · November 22, 2011 11:16AM

<< I can't speak for singles but I have a handful of 70s sets going up that I think he graded accurately. I have a 71 Topps baseball set where he describes the Munson as EX+ when it was previously in a PSA 6 slab before I cracked it.

I had these sets on ebay for a while and they didn't move so I'm giving them a shot with him. If anything, my descriptions were more puffy.....puffery.......pufferier.......over-hyped than his are. >>

I strenuously object.

MULLINS5 · November 22, 2011 12:48PM

<< His scans are by far the BEST on eBay. With his scans, I can tell all I need to know. >>

Doesn't help you when two novice in grading bid on the item going by the description.

PWCC is going to be BUSY this week!!

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