Greek Euro coin sets...

Hyperion

I wonder if the greek euro issues will be a collectible short-set?

they're dropping the euro, right?

ajaan

I have a 2010 Greek Euro set.

SYRACUSIAN

I strongly suggest to all of you, to purchase the only ever Greek euro proof set, the 2011 that was issued last Monday at 80 euros by the Bank of Greece and sold out in 5 hours. Total mintage is 2500 sets and they can be found already on ebay still for a small premium if any.

Consider the odds. Greece is leaving the euro either way. If the PM gets approval from Parliament on Friday, the referendum will go ahead. The true options, is either an orderly bankruptcy in 6-9 months from now at best ,but with huge and unparalleled concessions, or a disorderly one right away, if the vote of the referendum is a resounding (or even a 50.1%) NO. Count me already in the NO votes. A disorderly bankruptcy is a much better option for Greece, who won't have to concede any of its national independence and can stop paying the entire debt all together.

As far as collateral damage is concerned, those who strangled us and still refuse to pay WW2 compensations should have thought about it before. I don't recall voting Mrs Merkel for PM.

GoldClause

<< <i>

As far as collateral damage is concerned, those who strangled us and still refuse to pay WW2 compensations should have thought about it before. I don't recall voting Mrs Merkel for PM. >>



Why stop there. The Persians and Ottomans still owe you compensation. When will you get Constantanople back? Ionia?

SYRACUSIAN

By collateral damage, I referred to a near future crisis in Italy, Belgium, Portugal, and maybe even France. A secondary collateral damage will be the issuers of the infamous CDS, the Credit Default Swaps, an insurance for bond and non bond holders if Greece defaulted, purchased at a fraction of their current value 20 months ago. The biggest owners of these are US investors, several of which are of Greek origin.

The Ottomans, the Persians and even the Italians, for the 1940 invasion, have paid very well and repeatedly for their mistakes.

One thing I've learned in this life, is to not take lightly, a person who has nothing to lose. I guess this applies to a nation too, provided that the real options are presented, mostly by correct wording of the referendum questions. It's not about wanting the euro or the drachma. This train departed long ago. It's leaving with the chin up or down.

GoldClause

<< <i>

The Ottomans, the Persians and even the Italians, for the 1940 invasion, have paid very well and repeatedly for their mistakes.
>>




Not really. Bulgaria is the only country that modern Greece exacted compensation from, territory-wise.

The Turks still control Constantinople and Ionia, which are traditional Greek lands. Not to mention, they unilaterally partitioned Cyprus.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Greek culture and history, and all that they represent as the cradle of Western civilization, but since 1204, Greece has been the doormat of every regional power that wanted a pound of flesh. Now they're just a tiny country that can't even govern themselves properly, and you can't blame that on the Germans.

Greece needs to reclaim their national pride and Spartan work ethic. They need to reclaim the spirit of self sacrifice that was shown at the Battle of Thermopylae, which still inspires Western civilization.

Until the Greeks look to themselves for solutions, and stop blaming others, they will never recover their greatness. And I truly hope they do. How inspiring would it be to see the flag of Greece flying over Constantinople again?

SYRACUSIAN

<< <i>


Not really. Bulgaria is the only country that modern Greece exacted compensation from, territory-wise.

The Turks still control Constantinople and Ionia, which are traditional Greek lands. Not to mention, they unilaterally partitioned Cyprus. >>



OK, I'm going to put a stop into this. I see this escalating, in a very different way, and I'm certainly responsible, if anything, of not expressing myself properly and of touching a subject that has very little to do with the coin forum that this is, after my initial suggestion to purchase the 2011 Greek euro proof set.

However, and just for the record, I feel compelled to correct some points:

- Bulgaria was not the only country from which we got compensation. In fact, Bulgaria was supposed to be an ally in the Balkan wars (1912-1923) against the remaining crumbling Ottoman empire, but the brilliant Greek PM at the time,(Eleftherios Venizelos), understood their intentions and ordered the King (!), to march with the army and reclaim Thessaloniki, instead of allowing the Bulgarians to enter the city. For this, we lost Northern Epirus, an area that is now Southern Albania, because the Greek army couldn't be at two different places simultaneously.

-The struggle against the Ottoman empire started on the 21rst of March of 1821 and did not end until the entire Greek territory was reclaimed including Crete that was annexed in 1913. After that, the final campaign was to reclaim the North East part of Greece, Thrace, and with the enthusiasm that followed each and every city that was liberated, the Greek army entered victorious in Constantinople in 1922. The mistakes that took place after that peak,(such as underestimating Kemal Ataturk and the NeoTurks) as well as the atrocities from the part of the enemy, is an entirely different story, and today this could easily be called a genocide. That's how Constantinople and Ionia was lost.

-Great Britain returned the Ionian islands to Greece in 1862 without a nose bleed. Greece has always been a close ally with Great Britain, but countries don't make such gifts, especially of such strategic importance as a simple gesture of good will.

- Italy conceded the Dodecanese after WW2 (Rhodes, Kos and 10 more islands, many of which are just a few miles from the Turkish coast) as part of WW2 compensations for their 1940 invasion. For the record, Greece was fighting for 212 consecutive days in WW2, when most countries, way more powerful, surrendered within 15-60 days to the axis powers.

-The Persians is a story that belongs to the past and it is not my intention to present historical facts as to what happened with them. Greece defended Europe successfully at the time and never allowed them to set foot on this continent, without counting Great Alexander's victorious campaign later. If Ahmadinedjan and Iran's current leaders dream of rebuilding the old Persian Empire, it will be up to the US, Russia, China and Europe to make them realize that it's not going to happen.




<< <i>Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Greek culture and history, and all that they represent as the cradle of Western civilization, but since 1204, Greece has been the doormat of every regional power that wanted a pound of flesh. Now they're just a tiny country that can't even govern themselves properly, and you can't blame that on the Germans.

Greece needs to reclaim their national pride and Spartan work ethic. They need to reclaim the spirit of self sacrifice that was shown at the Battle of Thermopylae, which still inspires Western civilization.

Until the Greeks look to themselves for solutions, and stop blaming others, they will never recover their greatness. And I truly hope they do. How inspiring would it be to see the flag of Greece flying over Constantinople again? >>



Point taken. We are not blaming zee Germans for the situation. However, the agreement of the 26th of October is a very bad agreement for Greece who will have to concede a very disproportionate part of its assets and even part of its national independence, for an endless austerity program that's already proven that it does not work, but it only makes things worse.

Between two terrible choices (orderly or disorderly default), I would have preferred the second. The reason for this, is that I'm willing to endure international isolation, poverty and whatever this would bring, but with a much better and faster prospect for my kid and for myself, to return to real growth.If Greece returned to the drachma straight away and stopped paying its debt, the devaluation of the new drachma and the increase in tourism, construction and exports that would have followed, seems to me as a much better and faster way out of this mess towards a road back to growth, instead of the endless and pointless austerity that is supposed to last at least two decades from now with uncertain results at best.


Unfortunately, with the way things look at this moment, it's rather unlikely that this referendum will ever take place. The vote of confidence in the Parliament, is scheduled for tonight, at exactly midnight local time (GMT+3), but even if the government wins the vote, it's possible that the PM will be replaced and the referendum will never take place. It was a good idea that should have been tried out 12-18 months ago, not now. I'm not holding my breath. The establishment is too strong, and crushed the initiative (after feeling serious shock waves during the first two days) before it could ever take place in a proper form.

Finally, I think it's at least naive to generalize a nation: "the Greeks are lazy", "the French are cowards", "the Germans are stiff" without being able to see basic differences, wether we're talking about the public or private sector, or simply the individual citizens of each and every country.

Thank you for replying to my comments, but I think it's time to put a stop here. I've always been proud of the fact that the Darkside can be self moderated and I do not intend to break that tradition now, or at any other moment.

SYRACUSIAN

And here's my final take on this subject. Floyd Norris' opinion expresses in a much more eloquent way the point that I was trying to make:

Why not give Greeks their say? By Floyd Norris, NYT, 11/3/2011