Now since these coins have a grade assigned, will they be eligible for inclusion in registry sets? Presumably with some point penalty for not being fully gradable.
I think this is a very useful service, especially for the "questionable color" coins - at least you have a verifiable assertion of the details grade (which I assume is covered under grading guarantees?) and can judge the color/toning issues for yourself.
Me at the Springfield coin show: 60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
I sent it in. PCGS got it over the other guys only because they put a details grade on the holder. I didn't request a variety since 1888/7 is assumed to be an S1, I would think.
A genuine VF is much better than a genuine assumed to be just Good. I suppose they would be happy to take your $24 and put a variety on the holder too.
I couldn't see the point of the new service, but now I do.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
<< <i>I sent it in. PCGS got it over the other guys only because they put a details grade on the holder. I didn't request a variety since 1888/7 is assumed to be an S1, I would think.
A genuine VF is much better than a genuine assumed to be just Good. I suppose they would be happy to take your $24 and put a variety on the holder too. >>
It really makes a lot of sense VFing a coin when one of the qualities in missing? Yes, the color/toned/originality is obviously affected since the coin has been noted to have been cleaned, And no, it's not an XF either.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
yeah hopefully they will be HONEST about the grading and if the details say AU then dont punish the coin by pushing it to xf just because...well, they can. theres no win lose with this, no big deal with pop reports or price guides, be honest with the coin and list it like it IS.
<< <i>yeah hopefully they will be HONEST about the grading and if the details say AU then dont punish the coin by pushing it to xf just because...well, they can. theres no win lose with this, no big deal with pop reports or price guides, be honest with the coin and list it like it IS. >>
Wouldn't downgrading a problem coin be the same as market grading...yada yada?
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
they need to precisely follow the grade standard for the existing details and NOT net it down for anything. grade the details and list the problem....just like sheldon wanted.
they need to precisely follow the grade standard for the existing details and NOT net it down for anything. grade the details and list the problem....just like sheldon wanted. >>
.....With all due respect, where is it stated that it is a "net" grade? That's fine if it is, but I looked on the PCGS site and it only said "details" grade. This was on their site:
"PCGS Expands Genuine Service Offerings
PCGS is proud to announce our new expanded Genuine program. At no cost to you, we are now offering three Genuine service options for collectors to choose from. The three options include: 1) Standard Genuine service (default); 2) Genuine with Details; or the 3) Do not holder Genuine-only coins. The Genuine with Details option will print the coin problem as well as a details grade (we will not be using numeric grades). An example of Genuine Details would be “Cleaned – XF Details.”
....My understanding is "net" and "details" are different distinctions. "Net" describes a downgrade once the problem is taken into account. "Details" merely describes what it would have graded had it not had the problem.
.....Any better info, insights, or advice is appreciated!
I wonder how PCGS will handle this in their auction records archives. As of now, an NGC details graded coin will show up in a search with straight graded coins. So, since all PCGS coins were straight grades, it made it appear that thire coins bring (even) more money than NGC at auction - you did not know an NGC coin was details graded unless you clicked through the link to the auction site.
I suspect that PCGS will not want their details graded coins to show up with their own straight grades in their archive searches. I wonder if they will fix this anomoly for NGC coins as well. It would make the archive more useful.
The 1888/7 S1 in the OP is a VF not an XF net graded to VF. They are applying the grade (UNC, PROOF, AU, XF, VF, F, VG, G, AG) and labeling the problem.
So is the OPs coin "Cleaning - VF35 Details", or "Cleaning - VF20 Details"?
The new label is definitely a much needed improvement, but I still see a potential for an even more accurate label than this new one.
My current coin collecting interests are: (1) British coins 1838-1970 in XF-AU-UNC, (2) silver type coins in XF-AU with that classic medium gray coloration and exceptional eye appeal.
So is the OPs coin "Cleaning - VF35 Details", or "Cleaning - VF20 Details"?
The new label is definitely a much needed improvement, but I still see a potential for an even more accurate label than this new one.
A number grade won't be applied so there is a wide variance in the VF and AU grades with the current 4 numerical grades assigned within VF and AU coins. However a problem coin that is assigned a "details" grade generally in the market place doesn't get all that fine tuned as to actual pricing except by the owner. Most buyers are going to assess the distractions and the price winds up being lower then the assigned general Good, Very Good, Fine, Very Fine etc. grade.
Think of it more as 30+ years ago when numeric grades weren't yet used.
However, it may be an opportunity for an astute, discerning collector over the future where instead of having a problem details VF coin for example that is only a technical VF20 going for 50% of VF money, instead picking up a VF35 coin that may trade closer to actual VF money.
I would suggest PCGS follow ngcs lead and allow 1/2 the no problems grade value. Logically, this should be step two in the reevaluation on the genuine slab
NGC tried the "Net Grade" thing and it quickly became unwanted. The net grades were all over the place. Dealers were unable to sell an EF coin for F money if it net graded at AG. I bought several nice AU coins with minor problems that were net graded and priced for the net grade. Unfortunately, that door closed pretty quickly. If PCGS does net grade, it would be another buying opportunity. Maybe a nice XF Bust coin netted to G for a cleaning problem or a scratch on the reverse. I'm betting they never do net.
I recently saw a Genuine coin with "Holed or Plugged". I am sure they can improve on that decision, or maybe make the decision. About the same as Cleaned or Conserved, not that I have seen that one. JMO.
About time I say, NGC, ANACS have done this successfully for years. I like the new details and general grade. The prices for the older genuines may increase now with being able to get a net grade on a simple resubmission.
EagleEye
Posts: 7,676 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Now since these coins have a grade assigned, will they be eligible for inclusion in registry sets? Presumably with some point penalty for not being fully gradable.
http://www.shieldnickels.net
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
Genuine=1
Were not eligible for lowball
"PCGS Genuine
NGC MS61"
Are they kidding ? They don't list the variety on an 1888/7 ? They are giving an opportunity to a seller of such a coin to screw and bury
deeply an unsuspecting and naive purchaser of such a coin. Maybe Don Willis will read this and do the right thing.
Stewart
A genuine VF is much better than a genuine assumed to be just Good. I suppose they would be happy to take your $24 and put a variety on the holder too.
<< <i>Hey Rick,
Are they kidding ? They don't list the variety on an 1888/7 ? They are giving an opportunity to a seller of such a coin to screw and bury
deeply an unsuspecting and naive purchaser of such a coin. Maybe Don Willis will read this and do the right thing.
Stewart >>
It says 1888/7 pretty blatantly...unless I'm imagining it
Edit: reading further, I see that would seem to be the case.
'Bout time, I say.
ANACS was way ahead of their time in this area.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>PCGS got it over the other guys only because they put a details grade on the holder. >>
The other guys put details grades on world coins. Don't they do that with US coins?
I see a mass regrade of existing genuine holdered coin. a potential windfall for pcg$
<< <i>I sent it in. PCGS got it over the other guys only because they put a details grade on the holder. I didn't request a variety since 1888/7 is assumed to be an S1, I would think.
A genuine VF is much better than a genuine assumed to be just Good. I suppose they would be happy to take your $24 and put a variety on the holder too. >>
It really makes a lot of sense VFing a coin when one of the qualities in missing? Yes, the color/toned/originality is obviously affected since the coin has been noted to have been cleaned, And no, it's not an XF either.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
we have came full circle.....
<< <i>yeah hopefully they will be HONEST about the grading and if the details say AU then dont punish the coin by pushing it to xf just because...well, they can. theres no win lose with this, no big deal with pop reports or price guides, be honest with the coin and list it like it IS. >>
Wouldn't downgrading a problem coin be the same as market grading...yada yada?
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>Would the net grading give a coin a higher value than just a Genuine ? >>
...I don't think it's "Net" grading, it's just "Details" grading.........
......I collect old stuff......
<< <i>Would the net grading give a coin a higher value than just a Genuine ? >>
Or a lesser value depending on how the seller and buyer determine the details grade.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
.
thanks for posting Rick
I've REALLY been meaning to get around to requesting what one looks like since I haven't sent a group out recently.
It is an easy option to find on the submission forms
.
.
Mike
...just sayin'
they need to precisely follow the grade standard for the existing details and NOT net it down for anything. grade the details and list the problem....just like sheldon wanted.
<< <i>uhhuh this is what worries me.
they need to precisely follow the grade standard for the existing details and NOT net it down for anything. grade the details and list the problem....just like sheldon wanted. >>
....isn't that what they are doing?
......I collect old stuff......
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>All grades below 70 are Net Grades >>
.....With all due respect, where is it stated that it is a "net" grade? That's fine if it is, but I looked on the PCGS site and it only said "details" grade. This was on their site:
"PCGS Expands Genuine Service Offerings
PCGS is proud to announce our new expanded Genuine program. At no cost to you, we are now offering three Genuine service options for collectors to choose from. The three options include: 1) Standard Genuine service (default); 2) Genuine with Details; or the 3) Do not holder Genuine-only coins. The Genuine with Details option will print the coin problem as well as a details grade (we will not be using numeric grades). An example of Genuine Details would be “Cleaned – XF Details.”
....My understanding is "net" and "details" are different distinctions. "Net" describes a downgrade once the problem is taken into account. "Details" merely describes what it would have graded had it not had the problem.
.....Any better info, insights, or advice is appreciated!
......I collect old stuff......
I suspect that PCGS will not want their details graded coins to show up with their own straight grades in their archive searches. I wonder if they will fix this anomoly for NGC coins as well. It would make the archive more useful.
merse
The new label is definitely a much needed improvement, but I still see a potential for an even more accurate label than this new one.
So is the OPs coin "Cleaning - VF35 Details", or "Cleaning - VF20 Details"?
The new label is definitely a much needed improvement, but I still see a potential for an even more accurate label than this new one.
A number grade won't be applied so there is a wide variance in the VF and AU grades with the current 4 numerical grades assigned within VF and AU coins. However a problem coin that is assigned a "details" grade generally in the market place doesn't get all that fine tuned as to actual pricing except by the owner. Most buyers are going to assess the distractions and the price winds up being lower then the assigned general Good, Very Good, Fine, Very Fine etc. grade.
Think of it more as 30+ years ago when numeric grades weren't yet used.
However, it may be an opportunity for an astute, discerning collector over the future where instead of having a problem details VF coin for example that is only a technical VF20 going for 50% of VF money, instead picking up a VF35 coin that may trade closer to actual VF money.
I hope that last sentence makes sense.
Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
<< <i>This also gives the option to spell out a secondary problem using the number code. I like "cleaning" better than "cleaned". >>
I always thought cleaning was a process and cleaned was the result of the process.
I am cleaning the floor and when I am done, it will have been cleaned.
Has the floor been cleaned or should it be has the floor been cleaning?
I like "cleaned" as that is what has happened to the coin prior to grading unless they mean it needs "cleaning."
I recently saw a Genuine coin with "Holed or Plugged". I am sure they can improve on that decision, or maybe make the decision. About the same as Cleaned or Conserved, not that I have seen that one. JMO.
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