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Why don't 1 oz. gold maples ring very well, if at all?

roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
Was comparing ring tones of maples to eagles to Krugs recently and was surprised to find that maples sound like clad coinage. I got one to give a very short and tinny ring but it
was a far cry from an Eagle. And another one tried wouldn't give any decent ring no matter how many times I tried. Yet the first tap on a Krug was crystal clear and went on forever, much stronger than the eagle. So what's different about the maples? And why does the Krug sound like a bell in a symphony orchestra?

roadrunner

Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold

Comments

  • It may be due to the different gold content.
    Aren't Maples 999, AGE 925 and Krug 900?
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know why.
    I'd better check mines.
    I've got a bunch of them.
    Thanks for the heads-up.
    Timbuk3
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Should .999+ vs. .900 gold or silver make that much difference? But if that is the case then Buffs and UHR's should sound very dullish as well. I don't have any of those
    handy to ring test. The Krug's ring tone seemed to be far superior to a 90% US $20 Saint.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • got tungsten
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  • Because they're Canadian.
  • Several factors.

    If you check the ring of a 50 Peso, Maple, Eagel and a K-Rand..... ( ballanced on a knuckle).

    You will find that the 50 Peso will ring the best. Why?

    Surface area to thickness ratio. The 50 Peso has the greatest surface area / thickness ratio.

    The Maple " thuds " in compairison as it has the least sa / thickness ratio.

    HAPPY PINGING!!!
    Silver Baron
    ********************
    Silver is the mortar that binds the bricks of loyalty.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,111 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Several factors.

    If you check the ring of a 50 Peso, Maple, Eagel and a K-Rand..... ( ballanced on a knuckle).

    You will find that the 50 Peso will ring the best. Why?

    Surface area to thickness ratio. The 50 Peso has the greatest surface area / thickness ratio.

    The Maple " thuds " in compairison as it has the least sa / thickness ratio.

    HAPPY PINGING!!! >>



    This makes a lot of sense.image

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Each Mexican 50 Peso contains 1.2057oz of gold. In comparison to other coins the Mexican 50 Peso is much larger, with a diameter of 37.08mm and a thickness of 2.69mm. Total Weight, 1.3396 oz. Purity, 90%


    •1 Troy Ounce Canadian Gold Maple Leaf Coin
    Face Value of $50 Canada – 33 mm diameter with 2.87 mm thickness


    The one-ounce gold American Eagle has a diameter of 32.7mm, a thickness of 2.87mm, a total weight of 1.0909 troy ounces (or 33.931 grams), contains one troy ounce of gold


    The Krugerrand is 32.6 mm in diameter and 2.74 mm thick. The Krugerrand's actual weight is 1.0909 troy ounces (33.93 g). It is minted from gold alloy that is 91.67% pure (22 karats), so the coin contains one troy ounce (31.1035 g) of gold.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's thinner and I'm going to guess the 90% plays a part, too.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for that data MsMorrisine.

    The differences in surface area to width for the AGE and Maple are negligible. Essentially the same sized coin. Therefore, that can't explain the huge
    ring tone differences. The 22 kt vs 24 kt is the only obvious factor remaining. But it seems illogical to me that a 10% alloy difference is the cause (see below).
    And the diameter to thickness ratio differs by <4% from Krug to AGE. That seems fairly negligible also for such a pronounced ring tone difference.

    It then occurred to me to look up bells. After all, a coin or bar is a bell, but just not in the hollow version we are accustomed to seeing. In the reference
    below it indeed says that a bell made of pure elemental metals do not ring so well. Generally, quality bells are made of 70-90% copper with other metals added
    for hardening, crack-resistance, tonal qualities, etc. Note that the heating, cooling and annealing processes in making the coin blanks could play a huge role in
    whether you get a ring tone or a thud. It's possible the Canadian mint uses a slightly different process in making their coins. It takes great expertise by a bell maker
    to get all the various octaves, partials, harmonics, etc. of the bell to line up. It just might be that the various mints have used similar technology in the manufacture
    of their coins/blanks based on where they get them. Obviously if you're making gold coins for world-wide use one would want them to be readily distinguisable from
    counterfeits. And a clear ring tone when dropped on a table or jostled with other coins in your pocket all play a part. But I'd still like to know how a 1 oz Buff or UHR
    compares to an AGE and/or Canadian Maple.

    www.msu.edu/~carillon/batmbook/chapter4.htm can't be linked directly. Paste it into your edit line or Google exactly the phrase "the musical bells" and click on that.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭
    Gold doesn't have as distinct of a ring as silver. How the coin vibrates has a lot to do with it's shape. Even the just the rims being taller/shorter/wider/etc would have a significant effect on how it sounds.

    I don't have the link, but there's a youtube video where some guys have three 100oz bars, two engelhards and a JM. Two of the bars ring very nicely. The last Engelhard bar doesn't ring at all. They suspected it was a fake, so they sawed it in half. Result: it was pure silver.
    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Products & Collections
  • 66Tbird66Tbird Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭
    I remember studying about bells after I heard a high quality set play in my multi award winning hand-bell choir in 81 or so. Fascinating art and science. Then I saw the price list. I was dumbfounded for a month. It was a firm mid six figures.
    Need something designed and 3D printed?
  • Talking about bells, here's a simple experiment I do in Science classes with interesting results, you have to try it to appreciate it:

    From http://www.ehow.com/info_7992424_science-do-wire-hanger-invention.html

    Turn a wire coat hanger upside down and tie a piece of 2-foot long string to each end of the bottom of the coat hanger. Tie the loose end of the strings to your right and left index fingers, then place your fingers in your ears. Tap the hanging hook end of the hanger on a table and listen for the bell tone.

    It looks silly, but it actually sounds like a church bell, as I said, you just have to try it.

    Still thinking of what to put in my signature...
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,111 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't have the link, but there's a youtube video where some guys have three 100oz bars, two engelhards and a JM. Two of the bars ring very nicely. The last Engelhard bar doesn't ring at all. They suspected it was a fake, so they sawed it in half. Result: it was pure silver. >>



    If there were a few trapped air bubbles in the bar it wouldn't ring.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire



  • << <i>It may be due to the different gold content.
    Aren't Maples 999, AGE 925 and Krug 900? >>




    Maples are .9999
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,822 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm waiting for the 1 oz. coin & bar bell choir tour.image
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761


    << <i>

    << <i>It may be due to the different gold content.
    Aren't Maples 999, AGE 925 and Krug 900? >>




    Maples are .9999 >>



    Not from 1979 to 1982. image

    (anyway, mine was an error)
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,115 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It may be due to the different gold content.
    Aren't Maples 999, AGE 925 and Krug 900? >>



    No, Maples are either .999 or .9999.
    KR's are 22kt, .9166667 gold and .0833333 copper.
    AGE's are also 22kt, .9166667 gold, .030000 silver and .0533333 copper.
    Mexican 50 Pesos are .900 fine

    I presume that a piece of metal must have a certain degree of hardness to ring. Imagine trying to ring a bag of geletin.

    The 10% copper alloy presumably makes the 50 Pesos harder than the other three. Next would be the KR, with .0833333 copper. Next would be the AGE, with .0533333 copper. The .03000 silver also makes the gold harder, but not as much as the copper.

    The ML, having no alloy, is relatively soft. That is why if you drop one on a hard table you can easily dent the edge.


    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • georgiacop50georgiacop50 Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭✭
    Something about Arcade Fire's bells...
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