eBay...seller with very deceptive pics of silver

piecesofme · October 20, 2011 9:19AM

Would you be upset if you paid a hefty premium for what you thought you'd receive something like this...

When in fact they look like this. Note that my pictures are not manipulated in any way.

They are the bars that were shown in the auction, but there was absolutely no mention of the bars being tarnished so badly in the description of the auction. Thankfully the seller has a 7 day return policy, which I will be invoking. And I'm not trying to give the seller a bad name or anything spiteful like that. My purpose is to let people know something that they probably already know, but in case you dont, pictures can be very deceptive. If the seller would've stated in the auction that the bars were tarnished, I probably wouldn't have even purchased them at such a steep premium. A premium that I am more than willing to pay, IF I receive what is being depcited in the auction.

Baley · October 20, 2011 9:21AM

you can tell from the top pics that he used a photoshop tool to black out the fields

Wingsrule · October 20, 2011 10:19AM

All of his photos are black and white. Hard to get a good read on the real condition.

MsMorrisine · October 20, 2011 10:29AM

I think we has somone on here or on the us coin forum that sold some silver with "stock pictures" and the buyer wasn't happy with the condition of the bullion priced object he received.

I think the lesson was:
1) don't use stock photos
and
2) it's just bullion
and finally,
3) the seller could have offered to send another one aw a replacement to avoid a neg or neutral.

So,
1) (I see the ser#s were the same now) I don't see all the "rim & high points" toning on them in the clerly B&W picture.
2) it's not just bullion if you pay a premium.... how much over spot %age wise did you pay? (it might be time to contact the seller to explain your position)
3) what's the return policy and have you asked if the seller if they have "clean" bars?

I'd have to sleep on whether to file a SNAD claim.

can you post a link to the auction so the description can be read?

TWQG · October 20, 2011 11:00AM

Is $59.42/oz a hefty premium for these? I honestly don't know.
I have never seen Engelhard bars look like the seller's pictures.
Based on that, I would not bid.

piecesofme · October 20, 2011 11:14AM

These are what I classify as collector Engelhard silver. $60 oz with Spot around $30 (basically double) is the norm for these, so they are not "just bullion". I believe only 400000 were made in 1981. That's really not alot imo and believe this style is the lowest mintage for non-poured (loaf) style bars made by Engelhard. The fact that you don't see them as much as other more commonly struck ones verifies what I am saying.

Like I said, I am not trying to spitefully ruin the sellers reputation. They offer a 7 day return policy and that is honestly why I took a chance buying these for what is realistically a fair price given what Spot is currently at, from this seller that I have not dealt with in the past. So that is not my motive or the point of this thread. It is to show how different the exact same piece of silver can look when the pics are manipulated and to remind folks of that. If this was "just bullion", I wouldn't care, but not for an item like this. I think someone like OnlyGoldIsMoney & 1970SilverArt can vouch to what I am saying about these style of Engelhards and I would be curious of their opinions. You can find these slightly cheaper, but I paid even more of a premium because they are consecutive serial numbers and still in original plastic.

can you post a link to the auction so the description can be read?
Be logged into eBay and search item number 150670147074.

TWQG · October 20, 2011 11:25AM

Here is the link to the auction in question

Wingsrule · October 20, 2011 12:12PM

It is to show how different the exact same piece of silver can look when the pics are manipulated and to remind folks of that.

It's not just bullion. Ebay has a boatload of brilliant proof coins where the photos are juiced or tweaked to impart a CAM or DCAM look to them.

nibanny · October 20, 2011 12:20PM

Piecesofme, imo you paid too much for those bar but it is true that 3 consecutive serial numbers may be worth more than I think.
Having said that, I have dealt few times with Clayton, either as a seller and as a buyer, and have always been satisfied.
Contact him, I am pretty sure he will make it right.

Let us know how it goes.

MsMorrisine · October 20, 2011 1:58PM

I'd be a little bent too.

he sold them as "rare" bars, so he knew they were collectible.

and the picture is misleading as to the real condition.

hopefully, as the one person suggesteed, th guy will make things right.

I'd start nicely but end with "pay for my return shipping."

BigE · October 20, 2011 2:13PM

I wouldnt be too upset, that the best condition you will ever see these bars in, unless removed from orig. hldr. and dipped------------------BigE

morgantype · October 20, 2011 2:15PM

In short, yes, I would be mad.

The photos do look photoshopped now that Bailey pointed it out. But I wouldn't have seen it.

Return them.

That's a large premium.

Have a good day!

gsa1fan · October 20, 2011 6:53PM

Send them back for a refund

piecesofme · October 20, 2011 9:21PM

Contact him, I am pretty sure he will make it right
Send them back for a refund
I'd start nicely but end with "pay for my return shipping."
Although I feel it is bs that I have to pay for return shipping after being blatantly deceived, he did state that in the auction, so grinning and taking it is what I must do. I knew that going into the transaction.

Let us know how it goes.
I am sending them back today, have contacted him, but have not received a reply as of now.

hammered54 · October 21, 2011 12:38AM

but..but,,I thought toning added to the premium .......so that should be a rip ...right?
it's silver and thats all, silver.
if you needed to sell it do you think the local guy will pay anymore than spot for it?

DoubleEagle59 · October 21, 2011 12:59AM

I guess I'm one of the few that looks at bullion as just that.

Paying $60 for an ounce bar when silver is at $30 just doesn't make sense.

When the price of silver goes to $150, are you going to be selling these for $300?? (or for any premium for that matter)....... I think not.

So why not just pay $30 to maximize your PM profit.

Baley · October 21, 2011 1:09AM

I guess I'm one of the few that looks at bullion as just that.

Paying $60 for an ounce bar when silver is at $30 just doesn't make sense.

When the price of silver goes to $150, are you going to be selling these for $300?? (or for any premium for that matter)....... I think not.

So why not just pay $30 to maximize your PM profit.

but, but, it's a collectible ounce, even more so if it's a cameo proof. It would be even more if it was in the shape of a round dragon coin from next year, or this year's reverse proof ASE

cohodk · October 21, 2011 1:46AM

No one pays for originality anymore?

Wingsrule · October 21, 2011 3:28AM

With spot where it is, I would have paid a 50-60% premium for that particular style, but not 100%. JMO.

piecesofme · October 21, 2011 4:09AM

I think this thread is starting to derail. It's not about what I paid or what anyone thinks it's worth and that is not why I am retruning it. I am retruning it because I was blatantly deceived by manipulated pictures...and want to remind everyone of that and to be careful, just as CaptHenway did with the 100 oz fake silver bar thread...and I dont see him getting picked apart.
As far as trying to sell it to my local B&M, there is a dealer in my area that pays very nice premium for such bars, so yes, I would go to that dealer and try to sell it if for some reason I needed to.

Pokermandude · October 21, 2011 5:12AM

If I were you I would return them. You obviously aren't happy with them.

WinPitcher · October 21, 2011 5:49AM

<< This Seller is registered with the Ebay Numismatic Seller Registration Board The ENRB is committed to upholding high standards of HONESTY AND INTEGRITY IN NUMISMATICS >>

ok..........

Spooly · October 21, 2011 6:00AM

The picture is deceptive... I would return them.

DorkGirl · October 21, 2011 6:25AM

<< The picture is deceptive... I would return them. >>

I agree.

I think he is using a scanner to show the details, but it makes them look cameo.

piecesofme · October 21, 2011 10:05AM

The seller gave me a full refund minus the shipping I incurred mailing the bars back to him. The only one that won in this transaction is the Post Office

Oh well, I got my money back and I hope that I was able to remind folks to be careful out there. All's well that ends well I suppose, but what a letdown and a waste of time.

1970SilverArt · October 21, 2011 10:08AM

It is buyer Beware when it comes to buying gold and silver on ebay especially when ebay sellers are using stock pictures.

MsMorrisine · October 21, 2011 10:09AM

<< The seller gave me a full refund minus the shipping I incurred mailing the bars back to him. The only one that won in this transaction is the Post Office

Oh well, I got my money back and I hope that I was able to remind folks to be careful out there. All's well that ends well I suppose, but what a letdown and a waste of time. >>

neutral FB would be the highest I'd go!

WinPitcher · October 21, 2011 12:02PM

The seller was NOT using stock pictures, he said in the listing the bars you see are the bar you get.

Had you filed a SNAD you would have received your original postage back as well IIRC.

The return postage is on you.

Steve

1970SilverArt · October 21, 2011 8:35PM

<< The seller was NOT using stock pictures, he said in the listing the bars you see are the bar you get.

Had you filed a SNAD you would have received your original postage back as well IIRC.

The return postage is on you.

Steve >>

I will admit that I did not read the ebay seller's description in the OP's link but I also never said that this ebay seller was was using stock pictures. If I was somehow implying that in my previous statement, then I stand corrected. I was just making that "Buyer Beware" statement of using caution when bidding on auctions from ebay sellers who use stock pictures. Basically what I am saying that the stock pictures that ebay sellers use in their ebay auctions can be deceptive as well. That was the point I was trying to make. I was not necessarily talking about the ebay seller in the OP. My apologies for not making that clear in my previous post in this thread.

PerryHall · October 21, 2011 10:43PM

<< The seller gave me a full refund minus the shipping I incurred mailing the bars back to him. The only one that won in this transaction is the Post Office

Oh well, I got my money back and I hope that I was able to remind folks to be careful out there. All's well that ends well I suppose, but what a letdown and a waste of time. >>

What kind of feedback did you leave? Hopefully, not a positive.

jeremym · October 22, 2011 12:32AM

I'd leave a neutral with a comment something like...

"Photos misrepresented product. Received prompt refund less return shipping."

Don't leave a negative though. The seller did right (refund), I think.

piecesofme · October 23, 2011 12:56AM

I left exactly what jeremym suggested because I think that best suits how I felt about the transaction.
Notice that all of his selling transactions are "private", so when a buyer leaves him neutral or negative feedback, no one can see the auction. And when he leaves feedback for the buyer, it comes up as private.
He obviously has pretty good feedback for the volume that he does, but I think that is yet another sign that I should've picked up on to stay away. If you're doing business on the up & up, why hide the transaction from the eBay public?

Anyway, I got my $ back and, I feel it is fair to leave the feedback what I did for him. Leaving a neg would've just been spiteful being that he did refund my $ before I actually even sent the items back.

jeremym · October 23, 2011 1:43AM

<< I left exactly what jeremym suggested because I think that best suits how I felt about the transaction.
Notice that all of his selling transactions are "private", so when a buyer leaves him neutral or negative feedback, no one can see the auction. And when he leaves feedback for the buyer, it comes up as private.
He obviously has pretty good feedback for the volume that he does, but I think that is yet another sign that I should've picked up on to stay away. If you're doing business on the up & up, why hide the transaction from the eBay public?

Anyway, I got my $ back and, I feel it is fair to leave the feedback what I did for him. Leaving a neg would've just been spiteful being that he did refund my $ before I actually even sent the items back. >>

The bill's in the mail.

eBay...seller with very deceptive pics of silver

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