I don't get why when someone does something bad they say watch out for karma - maybe you were acting as an agent of karma to give someone else their punishment for something bad...
"If we are facing in the right direction, all we need to do is keep on walking." - David Brent
<< <i>IMO the buyer has no legal, ethical or moral obligation to contact the seller and/or pay the seller more money.
However, if the buyer chooses to share his good fortune with the buyer [giving the buyer additional money] he will:
1. be looked upon with favor by the sellers and increase the chances of getting more business from them in the future or from persons the seller refers to him; and
2. be able to enjoy doing a good deed.
Karma both good and bad and there is nothing wrong with sowing seeds which would generate good karma. >>
I totally agree with SanctionII--what's the issue with doing something good for someone? A nice hand written note and maybe a gift certificate to show appreciation could go a long way.
Snap-boom, I have to side with colonialcoinunion. Glad some people don't deal in situational ethics as they deem it convenient for their personal gain.
You sell or give me something without having a clue what it is worth that is all on you for being uneducated. I will enjoy every penny of the profits and karma can kiss my a$$.
Now if you ask me outright what I think something is worth and I outright lie ripping you off than I hope karma comes and bites me in the a$$.
That is the bottom line, the buyer didn't lie or cheat to get these pennies. He bought almost $2 K of silver and these were tossed in. Not his fault the seller didn't take the time to see if there was anything of value in the mix.
Many times I've made a mistake and bought a clad coin (usually a stray dime) for silver price. I've never called anyone and demanded my $2 back. I don't think the buyer owes the seller anything.
Did the guy who found the Declaration of Independence first printing copy behind a $4 painting he bought for the frame at a flea market owe the seller anything?
There is a difference between knowingly ripping someone off and buying site unseen and finding a nice coin IMO.
My question to OP is how do you buy 90% at 100% of melt and make any money? Do you just buy and hope the silver price goes up? I won't pay 100% of melt to anyone, hell I can't even sell it for 100% of melt. Maybe I should be selling to OP.
<< <i>Did the guy who found the Declaration of Independence first printing copy behind a $4 painting he bought for the frame at a flea market owe the seller anything? >>
In the Declaration of Independence deal, the seller priced the painting, the buyer was satisfied with the price and made the purchase. In the deal here, the buyer told the prospective seller that the coins were worth $4, leading to the gift. If the buyer had told the prospective seller the coins were worth several hundred dollars, do you think the coins would still have been offered as a gift?
Spend 8 hours inspecting them, grading them and figure out what each one is worth.
Spend more time making a spreadsheet with PCGS price guides, and when you get your total, after 8 hours of work, then you should compensate the couple for 90% of the PCGS Price Guide.
You are only entitled to 10% for all of your very hard work >>
That is ridiculous. I could have looked through the 150 coins in 5 minutes and saw their was a run date and saw the 1909, 1909vdb. Stop justifying your lack of morals. Next time just shut your mouth and don't come bragging here for validation.
Wow, I tried to share a little good luck and the whiners and negative attitudes came crawling out of the woodwork. I became a dealer among other things. Thanks to all of the members that posted a reasonable reply.
Maybe: "Common sense is being bred out of our species."
Have a Great Day! Louis
P.S. A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing!
"If you would know the value of money, go and try to borrow some." Benjamin Franklin
<< <i>Let's not pretend to be the Ethics Police. The OP did nothing to intentionally rip off the couple, and got an unexpected bonus. We all get a windfall now and then, so time to move on. >>
It is very clear from the OP's own story that the couple thought they were giving him $4 worth of coins as a "bonus" because the OP told them the coins were worth $4. Had they known it was hundreds of dollars I think it is safe to conclude that they would not have given them away.
Any ethical person would contact them, tell them what was in that group and pay them a fair price for it. >>
For those persons who believe that the buyer has some moral, ethical or legal obligation to locate the seller and provide to the seller more money, let us consider the following extreme hypothetical:
Take all of the "wealth" [money, property and other things of value] that exists today and place it into a big bucket. Further, eliminate all debt so that we can start with a clean slate that has only "wealth" on the balance sheet. Take all of this wealth and divide it by the number of humans that are alive today so that every person has an "equal share" of the "wealth" [how much more "fair" can this hypothetical be???]. One day after everyone receives his/her "equal share" of the wealth. I have no doubt that some people will have lost some or all of their share of the "wealth" and some people will have increased their share of the "wealth" by a factor of 10. The reason why someone will be broke and someone will be worth more is human nature and the choices/actions that people make.
With the above hypothetical in mind, should the next day all of the wealth be put back into the bucket and redistributed in equal shares again so that everything is "fair"?
How far does your own opinion that the buyer should provide "more" to the seller go [i.e. how much should be given back; and should the seller do the same and give "more" to all persons who participated the creation of and the assembling in a collection of the wheat cents (or their heirs)?].
Should society provide a safety net for everyone to insure that no one suffers any detriment as a result of their choices/actions? Doing so does not produce positive results nor does it lift people and society "up". It drags society down and inflicts misery across a broader segment of the population.
<< <i>For those persons who believe that the buyer has some moral, ethical or legal obligation to locate the seller and provide to the seller more money, let us consider the following extreme hypothetical:
Take all of the "wealth" [money, property and other things of value] that exists today and place it into a big bucket. Further, eliminate all debt so that we can start with a clean slate that has only "wealth" on the balance sheet. Take all of this wealth and divide it by the number of humans that are alive today so that every person has an "equal share" of the "wealth" [how much more "fair" can this hypothetical be???]. One day after everyone receives his/her "equal share" of the wealth. I have no doubt that some people will have lost some or all of their share of the "wealth" and some people will have increased their share of the "wealth" by a factor of 10. The reason why someone will be broke and someone will be worth more is human nature and the choices/actions that people make.
With the above hypothetical in mind, should the next day all of the wealth be put back into the bucket and redistributed in equal shares again so that everything is "fair"?
How far does your own opinion that the buyer should provide "more" to the seller go [i.e. how much should be given back; and should the seller do the same and give "more" to all persons who participated the creation of and the assembling in a collection of the wheat cents (or their heirs)?].
Should society provide a safety net for everyone to insure that no one suffers any detriment as a result of their choices/actions? Doing so does not produce positive results nor does it lift people and society "up". It drags society down and inflicts misery across a broader segment of the population. >>
That's all fine and dandy. What you are missing is that the OP led the uninformed couple to believe that the wheaties were worth $4, and their decision to give the buyer the "gift" was based on that premise. Intentional or not, they were duped. A decent person would attempt to share his good fortune with the old couple, even a token amount. A scumbag would just brag about it on the forum.
As painful as these threads are they can be real eye openers. I continue to feel bad for the couple. They were indeed duped. They were payed for common wheat cents. In fact what the had were not common. A cursory look may have opened up a whole can of worms for the buyer morally. I wonder what his offer would have been if he looked at these wheats first and saw what the couple had? Perhaps that is why he didn't look at them for exactly that reason as there was zero downside risk for him. If they were indeed common cents he payed the going rate no big deal. However, if there was a scarce date then a rip was to be had. His rip ship came in at the expense of the trusting couple.
Sorry but that was not good luck, especially for the couple.
I envy next to nothing, especially things that were ill gotten.............MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i> That's all fine and dandy. What you are missing is that the OP led the uninformed couple to believe that the wheaties were worth $4, and their decision to give the buyer the "gift" was based on that premise. Intentional or not, they were duped. A decent person would attempt to share his good fortune with the old couple, even a token amount. A scumbag would just brag about it on the forum. >>
I Sir think its not the least bit direspectful to call someone a scumbag for a situation such as this. I can think of things that causes "scumbag" to comes to mind, but this I don't believe deserves that type of language.
A little shame on you for your over the top passion. Maybe a little introspection is needed of the author of the above quote.
I enjoyed his story and suspect a lot of this righteous indignation is possibly seated/tainted in/by the old old word "Jealous"
Every time I've seen the participants of this board who begin their self righteous judgement and condemnation of a fellow member it seems to end up nasty.
Please lets stop these in the future.
NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac
<< <i> That's all fine and dandy. What you are missing is that the OP led the uninformed couple to believe that the wheaties were worth $4, and their decision to give the buyer the "gift" was based on that premise. Intentional or not, they were duped. A decent person would attempt to share his good fortune with the old couple, even a token amount. A scumbag would just brag about it on the forum. >>
I Sir think its not the least bit direspectful to call someone a scumbag for a situation such as this. I can think of things that causes "scumbag" to comes to mind, but this I don't believe deserves that type of language.
A little shame on you for your over the top passion. Maybe a little introspection is needed of the author of the above quote.
I enjoyed his story and suspect a lot of this righteous indignation is possibly seated/tainted in/by the old old word "Jealous"
Every time I've seen the participants of this board who begin their self righteous judgement and condemnation of a fellow member it seems to end up nasty.
Please lets stop these in the future. >>
Jealous? Puh-leez! The day my enjoyment of the hobby is predicated on my ripping the public is the day I walk away. Perhaps it is folks like you who glorify ripping off other people are part of the problem. Shame on you, kind sir, for encouraging bad behavior.
<< <i>I Sir think its not the least bit direspectful to call someone a scumbag for a situation such as this. I can think of things that causes "scumbag" to comes to mind, but this I don't believe deserves that type of language. >>
That term is or may be offensive to some. Please use the term "pre-owned latex ejaculate receptacle" in the future. Thank you.
<< <i>I Sir think its not the least bit direspectful to call someone a scumbag for a situation such as this. I can think of things that causes "scumbag" to comes to mind, but this I don't believe deserves that type of language. >>
That term is or may be offensive to some. Please use the term "pre-owned latex ejaculate receptacle" in the future. Thank you. >>
Will do.
To be fair, I did not call the OP a scumbag, but I thought that his behavior in this case was that of one. There is a difference. There are some parts of the story that I find to be hard to believe, but for the purpose of this discussion, I will take them at face value. Had the couple not asked the value of the wheaties and just said, "Here, take these," the scenario gets trickier.
There are (at least) two things that he could have done differently which would have made himself more respectable:
1. If you get a rip from some unknowledgeable folks, just keep it to yourself. Bragging about ripping the uninitiated is very poor from and unprofessional. Act like you have been there before.
2. Any effort to let the couple wet their beak is the sign of a decent person. I am not suggesting that he necessarily gives them full value, half value, or any fixed amount or percentage--just do what's right. Attempt to contact them and send them a check.
Put another way, if this couple was your elderly aunt and uncle, would you have been happy with how the OP handled the situation?
Nice good for you. Some need to do there home work befor selling... it's just like if I went in to a BM and cherry picked him if he did not do the work how and why shuld he be mad at me..
I reread the OP and my view of the matter (the buyer has no moral, ethical or legal obligation to give the seller more) is premised upon the truth of the following statement by the OP:
"Then they pull out a baggie of wheat cents and tell me that there is 141 pieces. I tell them that I pay 3c each so I would give them $4 for them. They were very pleased with what I had paid for their silver and they told me that I could just have them for free. This morning I decided to see what was in the baggie:"
If the above is true, then the buyer not knowing what is in the bag giving (or selling for $4.00) the bag to a seller who does not know what is in the bag is sort of like a "grab bag" situation (for example someone who inherits a fifty gallon trash can filled with wheat cents decides to sell off the coins, truly unsearched, on ebay, in sealed ziplock bags of 100 coins each at a starting bid of $5.00).
All of the above said, I personally would have contacted the seller and given the seller "more".
If I had intentionally not asked to open the bag and look at its contents before telling the sellers that I would pay 3 cents each for the wheaties, that would not be nefarious since I would give the seller more after opening the bag and seeing the goodies.
If I would not give the seller more, then the choice to not open and look in the bag first may or may not be nefarious depending on your point of view (as to whether a deal where you the buyer have absolutely no downside risk and unlimited upside profit potential is ok or is not ok).
<< <i>Nice good for you. Some need to do there home work befor selling... it's just like if I went in to a BM and cherry picked him if he did not do the work how and why shuld he be mad at me.. >>
A dealer with a B&M store is presumed to be knowledgeable about coins. Ma & Pa Kettle, who took the OP at his word that the coins were worth $4, are not presumed to be knowledgeable about coins. I personally would send the couple some of the money I realized from the sale of the coins in question. Others may (ethically) choose to do different and that is their right.
It really saddens me to see what this site has deteriorated to due to greed. Without naming anyone, the quality posters have become lurkers or been bammed. Good-bye and the best of luck.
Enough
"If you would know the value of money, go and try to borrow some." Benjamin Franklin
<< <i>Do you have contact information on the couple??
~ >>
the total purchase came to $1,800.00 and if he didn't give them a check along with a receipt (name, address, etc.), as a buyer/seller/dealer? ....tax nightmares. All this talk of too many cellphone numbers to look though.... LOOK IN YOUR CHECKBOOK AND YOUR RECEIPT STATEMENTS!
This is what coin buyers and dealers get a bad rap, IMHO.
<< <i>It really saddens me to see what this site has deteriorated to due to greed. Without naming anyone, the quality posters have become lurkers or been bammed. Good-bye... >>
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
<< <i> Jealous? Puh-leez! The day my enjoyment of the hobby is predicated on my ripping the public is the day I walk away. Perhaps it is folks like you who glorify ripping off other people are part of the problem. Shame on you, kind sir, for encouraging bad behavior. >>
A serious introspection is needed
NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac
I have a question: how did the buyer "dupe" the sellers when he didn't even look at the wheat cents till the next day? For all he knew, the bag consisted of a bunch of 50s cents..
I also hope that anyone who takes the OP to task would go back to a store after receiving silver in change and offer to at least pay spot price.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
It's odd that the seller is not held responsible for "discovering" what they have. Why is someone a victim when they didn't get as much as they could have, if they'd have done the discovering ? Rather, why is the person who benefits from the discovery villified ?
<< <i>I have a question: how did the buyer "dupe" the sellers when he didn't even look at the wheat cents till the next day? For all he knew, the bag consisted of a bunch of 50s cents..
I also hope that anyone who takes the OP to task would go back to a store after receiving silver in change and offer to at least pay spot price. >>
There's a big difference between telling a couple their coins are worth $4 and inadvertently getting a silver coin in change.
I have a question: how did the buyer "dupe" the sellers when he didn't even look at the wheat cents till the next day? For all he knew, the bag consisted of a bunch of 50s cents..
I also hope that anyone who takes the OP to task would go back to a store after receiving silver in change and offer to at least pay spot price. >>
There's a big difference between telling a couple their coins are worth $4 and inadvertently getting a silver coin in change.
No, there isn't. The buyer offered a standard price that anyone here would agree is fair for wheat cents if you're buying a lot of them. He did not search the bag before stating that price, and (this is the part that apparently some are having trouble understanding), did not check the cents till the NEXT DAY. So how can he be faulted for duping the seller? If a shop owner gives you a 1916-D silver dime in change, is it your fault he didn't check the till or realize what he had?
Edit: Here's another scenario: a seller on ebay is selling a lot of wheat cents,...you buy the bag for 5 cents a wheatie and when you get it, realize there's a 1955 DDO in the bag. Should you paypal the seller a couple hundred bucks? By your reasoning, the answer to that question would be yes.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
What I see as the true moral quandary of this now is whether the OP is a collector at heart and now puts it into a 2x2 and adds it to his collection. Or does he do the dealer thing and send it for grading and get like a VF35 and we all have to grant the “You Suck” award.
This attitude from the dealers is why they need to be banned completely from these boards. This is Collectors Universe, not Dealers Universe. Start charging dealers $500/month to post here and let collectors continue to post for free.
Dbcoin, just curious, do you even have an active membership with PCGS? Many of the best posters here happen to be dealers who share their knowledge and experience and we all benefit as collectors for it. Many "collectors" both buy and sell coins but certainly would not be classified as dealers. Whether someone is a dealer or not really has no relevance to this topic of discussion anyway.
Edit to add: And, for the record, I am not a "dealer" by any means..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
What should have transpired (for those of you with no morals what so ever)
couple - I also have a bag of 141 wheat cents. What are they worth
dealer - if they are common dates and poor condition, about 3c each or $4 total. If they are rare dates they could be worth $100s for each coin or more, even $1000s. I charge $100/hr too appraise coins and this would take me about 1/2 hr tops or $50. You could also buy a Red Book for $10 and look yourself, it's not that hard. What do you want to do?
At this point, if the couple said take them for free, then they were told what could have happened. No hard feelings.
<< <i>dealer - if they are common dates and poor condition, about 3c each or $4 total. If they are rare dates they could be worth $100s for each coin or more, even $1000s. I charge $100/hr too appraise coins and this would take me about 1/2 hr tops or $50. You could also buy a Red Book for $10 and look yourself, it's not that hard. What do you want to do? >>
Oh please, like anyone actually does that, especially a non-dealer like the OP. Your statement reminds me of a ludicrous case in law school where someone fell asleep basically underneath the back of a car, and then sued the driver for not looking underneath the car before she backed out. Like anyone ever does that.
Anyone giving the kind of disclosure you want would also realistically have to add that "99% of the time, wheat pennies are only worth 3 cents each." 99% of the time you would be essentially asking the old couple to spend $100 on your time, or $10 for a book, just to confirm their pennies are worth $4. Doesn't make any sense.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
dealer - if they are common dates and poor condition, about 3c each or $4 total. If they are rare dates they could be worth $100s for each coin or more, even $1000s. I charge $100/hr too appraise coins and this would take me about 1/2 hr tops or $50. You could also buy a Red Book for $10 and look yourself, it's not that hard. What do you want to do?
LOL, that exchange is quite amusing, more so if you were actually serious..
Here's a novel notion: If you are going to sell coins or bullion, it's YOUR responsibility to the do your homework and find out the value of what you have. Don't expect someone else to enlighten you.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I have a question: how did the buyer "dupe" the sellers when he didn't even look at the wheat cents till the next day? For all he knew, the bag consisted of a bunch of 50s cents..
I also hope that anyone who takes the OP to task would go back to a store after receiving silver in change and offer to at least pay spot price. >>
There's a big difference between telling a couple their coins are worth $4 and inadvertently getting a silver coin in change.
< I have a question: how did the buyer "dupe" the sellers when he didn't even look at the wheat cents till the next day? For all he knew, the bag consisted of a bunch of 50s cents..
I also hope that anyone who takes the OP to task would go back to a store after receiving silver in change and offer to at least pay spot price. >>
There's a big difference between telling a couple their coins are worth $4 and inadvertently getting a silver coin in change.
No, there isn't. >>
Well, that settles that.
Wow, that's pretty witty, you got me there, LOL..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Better to be fair than to fare better. Should one fare better for being fair... then what ? ... just thinking out loud We can correct our mistakes, we can change. But we cannot defend ever being unfair.
Comments
<< <i>IMO the buyer has no legal, ethical or moral obligation to contact the seller and/or pay the seller more money.
However, if the buyer chooses to share his good fortune with the buyer [giving the buyer additional money] he will:
1. be looked upon with favor by the sellers and increase the chances of getting more business from them in the future or from persons the seller refers to him; and
2. be able to enjoy doing a good deed.
Karma both good and bad and there is nothing wrong with sowing seeds which would generate good karma. >>
I totally agree with SanctionII--what's the issue with doing something good for someone? A nice hand written note and maybe a gift certificate to show appreciation could go a long way.
Now if you ask me outright what I think something is worth and I outright lie ripping you off than I hope karma comes and bites me in the a$$.
That is the bottom line, the buyer didn't lie or cheat to get these pennies. He bought almost $2 K of silver and these were tossed in. Not his fault the seller didn't take the time to see if there was anything of value in the mix.
<< <i>Not his fault the seller didn't take the time to see if there was anything of value in the mix. >>
It appears the seller took the buyer's word on the value of the lot. Turns out to have been a poor choice, I'd say.
Did the guy who found the Declaration of Independence first printing copy behind a $4 painting he bought for the frame at a flea market owe the seller anything?
$4 Declaration of Independence
There is a difference between knowingly ripping someone off and buying site unseen and finding a nice coin IMO.
My question to OP is how do you buy 90% at 100% of melt and make any money? Do you just buy and hope the silver price goes up? I won't pay 100% of melt to anyone, hell I can't even sell it for 100% of melt. Maybe I should be selling to OP.
<< <i>Did the guy who found the Declaration of Independence first printing copy behind a $4 painting he bought for the frame at a flea market owe the seller anything? >>
In the Declaration of Independence deal, the seller priced the painting, the buyer was satisfied with the price and made the purchase. In the deal here, the buyer told the prospective seller that the coins were worth $4, leading to the gift. If the buyer had told the prospective seller the coins were worth several hundred dollars, do you think the coins would still have been offered as a gift?
I see that everyone went down the same old road again anyway.... Imagine that
<< <i>Go through all the wheat cents every time.
Spend 8 hours inspecting them, grading them and figure out what each one is worth.
Spend more time making a spreadsheet with PCGS price guides, and when you get your total, after 8 hours of work, then you should compensate the couple for 90% of the PCGS Price Guide.
You are only entitled to 10% for all of your very hard work
That is ridiculous. I could have looked through the 150 coins in 5 minutes and saw their was a run date and saw the 1909, 1909vdb. Stop justifying your lack of morals. Next time just shut your mouth and don't come bragging here for validation.
Karma will get you back.
Maybe: "Common sense is being bred out of our species."
Have a Great Day!
Louis
P.S. A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing!
<< <i>
<< <i>Let's not pretend to be the Ethics Police. The OP did nothing to intentionally rip off the couple, and got an unexpected bonus. We all get a windfall now and then, so time to move on. >>
It is very clear from the OP's own story that the couple thought they were giving him $4 worth of coins as a "bonus" because the OP told them the coins were worth $4. Had they known it was hundreds of dollars I think it is safe to conclude that they would not have given them away.
Any ethical person would contact them, tell them what was in that group and pay them a fair price for it. >>
Take all of the "wealth" [money, property and other things of value] that exists today and place it into a big bucket. Further, eliminate all debt so that we can start with a clean slate that has only "wealth" on the balance sheet. Take all of this wealth and divide it by the number of humans that are alive today so that every person has an "equal share" of the "wealth" [how much more "fair" can this hypothetical be???]. One day after everyone receives his/her "equal share" of the wealth. I have no doubt that some people will have lost some or all of their share of the "wealth" and some people will have increased their share of the "wealth" by a factor of 10. The reason why someone will be broke and someone will be worth more is human nature and the choices/actions that people make.
With the above hypothetical in mind, should the next day all of the wealth be put back into the bucket and redistributed in equal shares again so that everything is "fair"?
How far does your own opinion that the buyer should provide "more" to the seller go [i.e. how much should be given back; and should the seller do the same and give "more" to all persons who participated the creation of and the assembling in a collection of the wheat cents (or their heirs)?].
Should society provide a safety net for everyone to insure that no one suffers any detriment as a result of their choices/actions? Doing so does not produce positive results nor does it lift people and society "up". It drags society down and inflicts misery across a broader segment of the population.
<< <i>For those persons who believe that the buyer has some moral, ethical or legal obligation to locate the seller and provide to the seller more money, let us consider the following extreme hypothetical:
Take all of the "wealth" [money, property and other things of value] that exists today and place it into a big bucket. Further, eliminate all debt so that we can start with a clean slate that has only "wealth" on the balance sheet. Take all of this wealth and divide it by the number of humans that are alive today so that every person has an "equal share" of the "wealth" [how much more "fair" can this hypothetical be???]. One day after everyone receives his/her "equal share" of the wealth. I have no doubt that some people will have lost some or all of their share of the "wealth" and some people will have increased their share of the "wealth" by a factor of 10. The reason why someone will be broke and someone will be worth more is human nature and the choices/actions that people make.
With the above hypothetical in mind, should the next day all of the wealth be put back into the bucket and redistributed in equal shares again so that everything is "fair"?
How far does your own opinion that the buyer should provide "more" to the seller go [i.e. how much should be given back; and should the seller do the same and give "more" to all persons who participated the creation of and the assembling in a collection of the wheat cents (or their heirs)?].
Should society provide a safety net for everyone to insure that no one suffers any detriment as a result of their choices/actions? Doing so does not produce positive results nor does it lift people and society "up". It drags society down and inflicts misery across a broader segment of the population. >>
That's all fine and dandy. What you are missing is that the OP led the uninformed couple to believe that the wheaties were worth $4, and their decision to give the buyer the "gift" was based on that premise. Intentional or not, they were duped. A decent person would attempt to share his good fortune with the old couple, even a token amount. A scumbag would just brag about it on the forum.
Sorry but that was not good luck, especially for the couple.
I envy next to nothing, especially things that were ill gotten.............MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
That's all fine and dandy. What you are missing is that the OP led the uninformed couple to believe that the wheaties were worth $4, and their decision to give the buyer the "gift" was based on that premise. Intentional or not, they were duped. A decent person would attempt to share his good fortune with the old couple, even a token amount. A scumbag would just brag about it on the forum. >>
I Sir think its not the least bit direspectful to call someone a scumbag for a situation such as this.
I can think of things that causes "scumbag" to comes to mind, but this I don't believe deserves that type of language.
A little shame on you for your over the top passion. Maybe a little introspection is needed of the author of the above quote.
I enjoyed his story and suspect a lot of this righteous indignation is possibly seated/tainted in/by the old old word "Jealous"
Every time I've seen the participants of this board who begin their self righteous judgement and condemnation of a fellow member it seems to end up nasty.
Please lets stop these in the future.
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<< <i>
That's all fine and dandy. What you are missing is that the OP led the uninformed couple to believe that the wheaties were worth $4, and their decision to give the buyer the "gift" was based on that premise. Intentional or not, they were duped. A decent person would attempt to share his good fortune with the old couple, even a token amount. A scumbag would just brag about it on the forum. >>
I Sir think its not the least bit direspectful to call someone a scumbag for a situation such as this.
I can think of things that causes "scumbag" to comes to mind, but this I don't believe deserves that type of language.
A little shame on you for your over the top passion. Maybe a little introspection is needed of the author of the above quote.
I enjoyed his story and suspect a lot of this righteous indignation is possibly seated/tainted in/by the old old word "Jealous"
Every time I've seen the participants of this board who begin their self righteous judgement and condemnation of a fellow member it seems to end up nasty.
Please lets stop these in the future. >>
Jealous? Puh-leez! The day my enjoyment of the hobby is predicated on my ripping the public is the day I walk away. Perhaps it is folks like you who glorify ripping off other people are part of the problem. Shame on you, kind sir, for encouraging bad behavior.
<< <i>I Sir think its not the least bit direspectful to call someone a scumbag for a situation such as this.
I can think of things that causes "scumbag" to comes to mind, but this I don't believe deserves that type of language. >>
That term is or may be offensive to some.
Please use the term "pre-owned latex ejaculate receptacle" in the future.
Thank you.
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<< <i>I Sir think its not the least bit direspectful to call someone a scumbag for a situation such as this.
I can think of things that causes "scumbag" to comes to mind, but this I don't believe deserves that type of language. >>
That term is or may be offensive to some.
Please use the term "pre-owned latex ejaculate receptacle" in the future.
Thank you.
Will do.
To be fair, I did not call the OP a scumbag, but I thought that his behavior in this case was that of one. There is a difference. There are some parts of the story that I find to be hard to believe, but for the purpose of this discussion, I will take them at face value. Had the couple not asked the value of the wheaties and just said, "Here, take these," the scenario gets trickier.
There are (at least) two things that he could have done differently which would have made himself more respectable:
1. If you get a rip from some unknowledgeable folks, just keep it to yourself. Bragging about ripping the uninitiated is very poor from and unprofessional. Act like you have been there before.
2. Any effort to let the couple wet their beak is the sign of a decent person. I am not suggesting that he necessarily gives them full value, half value, or any fixed amount or percentage--just do what's right. Attempt to contact them and send them a check.
Put another way, if this couple was your elderly aunt and uncle, would you have been happy with how the OP handled the situation?
Hoard the keys.
"Then they pull out a baggie of wheat cents and tell me that there is 141 pieces. I tell them that I pay 3c each so I would give them $4 for them. They were very pleased with what I had paid for their silver and they told me that I could just have them for free. This morning I decided to see what was in the baggie:"
If the above is true, then the buyer not knowing what is in the bag giving (or selling for $4.00) the bag to a seller who does not know what is in the bag is sort of like a "grab bag" situation (for example someone who inherits a fifty gallon trash can filled with wheat cents decides to sell off the coins, truly unsearched, on ebay, in sealed ziplock bags of 100 coins each at a starting bid of $5.00).
All of the above said, I personally would have contacted the seller and given the seller "more".
If I had intentionally not asked to open the bag and look at its contents before telling the sellers that I would pay 3 cents each for the wheaties, that would not be nefarious since I would give the seller more after opening the bag and seeing the goodies.
If I would not give the seller more, then the choice to not open and look in the bag first may or may not be nefarious depending on your point of view (as to whether a deal where you the buyer have absolutely no downside risk and unlimited upside profit potential is ok or is not ok).
<< <i>Nice good for you. Some need to do there home work befor selling... it's just like if I went in to a BM and cherry picked him if he did not do the work how and why shuld he be mad at me..
A dealer with a B&M store is presumed to be knowledgeable about coins.
Ma & Pa Kettle, who took the OP at his word that the coins were worth $4, are not presumed to be knowledgeable about coins.
I personally would send the couple some of the money I realized from the sale of the coins in question.
Others may (ethically) choose to do different and that is their right.
<< <i>I know many dealers that would have done the same thing and a few who would have done the right thing. >>
Great line, Jim! (Not judging. Just appreciate the sentence crafting.)
Enough
<< <i>Do you have contact information on the couple??
~ >>
the total purchase came to $1,800.00 and if he didn't give them a check along with a receipt (name, address, etc.), as a buyer/seller/dealer? ....tax nightmares. All this talk of too many cellphone numbers to look though.... LOOK IN YOUR CHECKBOOK AND YOUR RECEIPT STATEMENTS!
This is what coin buyers and dealers get a bad rap, IMHO.
How does this guy manage to sleep at night?
<< <i>It really saddens me to see what this site has deteriorated to due to greed. Without naming anyone, the quality posters have become lurkers or been bammed. Good-bye... >>
That's hilarious!
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Jealous? Puh-leez! The day my enjoyment of the hobby is predicated on my ripping the public is the day I walk away. Perhaps it is folks like you who glorify ripping off other people are part of the problem. Shame on you, kind sir, for encouraging bad behavior. >>
A serious introspection is needed
<< <i>
That's hilarious! >>
You sir are in need of serious self help therapy
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<< <i>
That's hilarious! >>
You sir are in need of serious self help therapy >>
Whatever, dude!
I also hope that anyone who takes the OP to task would go back to a store after receiving silver in change and offer to at least pay spot price.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I have a question: how did the buyer "dupe" the sellers when he didn't even look at the wheat cents till the next day? For all he knew, the bag consisted of a bunch of 50s cents..
I also hope that anyone who takes the OP to task would go back to a store after receiving silver in change and offer to at least pay spot price. >>
There's a big difference between telling a couple their coins are worth $4 and inadvertently getting a silver coin in change.
I also hope that anyone who takes the OP to task would go back to a store after receiving silver in change and offer to at least pay spot price. >>
There's a big difference between telling a couple their coins are worth $4 and inadvertently getting a silver coin in change.
No, there isn't. The buyer offered a standard price that anyone here would agree is fair for wheat cents if you're buying a lot of them. He did not search the bag before stating that price, and (this is the part that apparently some are having trouble understanding), did not check the cents till the NEXT DAY. So how can he be faulted for duping the seller? If a shop owner gives you a 1916-D silver dime in change, is it your fault he didn't check the till or realize what he had?
Edit: Here's another scenario: a seller on ebay is selling a lot of wheat cents,...you buy the bag for 5 cents a wheatie and when you get it, realize there's a 1955 DDO in the bag. Should you paypal the seller a couple hundred bucks? By your reasoning, the answer to that question would be yes.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Edit to add: And, for the record, I am not a "dealer" by any means..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
couple - I also have a bag of 141 wheat cents. What are they worth
dealer - if they are common dates and poor condition, about 3c each or $4 total. If they are rare dates they could be worth $100s for each coin or more, even $1000s. I charge $100/hr too appraise coins and this would take me about 1/2 hr tops or $50. You could also buy a Red Book for $10 and look yourself, it's not that hard. What do you want to do?
At this point, if the couple said take them for free, then they were told what could have happened. No hard feelings.
<< <i>dealer - if they are common dates and poor condition, about 3c each or $4 total. If they are rare dates they could be worth $100s for each coin or more, even $1000s. I charge $100/hr too appraise coins and this would take me about 1/2 hr tops or $50. You could also buy a Red Book for $10 and look yourself, it's not that hard. What do you want to do? >>
Oh please, like anyone actually does that, especially a non-dealer like the OP. Your statement reminds me of a ludicrous case in law school where someone fell asleep basically underneath the back of a car, and then sued the driver for not looking underneath the car before she backed out. Like anyone ever does that.
Anyone giving the kind of disclosure you want would also realistically have to add that "99% of the time, wheat pennies are only worth 3 cents each." 99% of the time you would be essentially asking the old couple to spend $100 on your time, or $10 for a book, just to confirm their pennies are worth $4. Doesn't make any sense.
LOL, that exchange is quite amusing, more so if you were actually serious..
Here's a novel notion: If you are going to sell coins or bullion, it's YOUR responsibility to the do your homework and find out the value of what you have. Don't expect someone else to enlighten you.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I have a question: how did the buyer "dupe" the sellers when he didn't even look at the wheat cents till the next day? For all he knew, the bag consisted of a bunch of 50s cents..
I also hope that anyone who takes the OP to task would go back to a store after receiving silver in change and offer to at least pay spot price. >>
There's a big difference between telling a couple their coins are worth $4 and inadvertently getting a silver coin in change.
No, there isn't. >>
Well, that settles that.
I also hope that anyone who takes the OP to task would go back to a store after receiving silver in change and offer to at least pay spot price. >>
There's a big difference between telling a couple their coins are worth $4 and inadvertently getting a silver coin in change.
No, there isn't. >>
Well, that settles that.
Wow, that's pretty witty, you got me there, LOL..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Should one fare better for being fair... then what ?
... just thinking out loud
We can correct our mistakes, we can change.
But we cannot defend ever being unfair.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
either that, or the whole story is fake and the OP is laughing to himself at the fake uproar.
gonna need pics of the whole haul right about now
edit: 100!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry