Crack-out artist
g048406
Posts: 247
The ebay seller, sashacrazy, has a new scam. He lists his coins in problem NGC holders on ebay. Than, if they don't sell, he crack's the coins out and re-lists them as 'raw' perfect problem free coins
PROOF:
1. compare ebay Item number: 120786028185 to Item number: 160653607394
2. compare ebay Item number: 160658458041 to Item number: 160653605880
3. compare ebay Item number: 120786025582 to Item number: 160653604672
4. compare ebay Item number: 120786024151 to Item number: 160653602650
5. compare ebay Item number: 160658454855 to Item number: 160653599928
6. compare ebay Item number: 120786022152 to Item number: 160653596535
7. compare ebay Item number: 120786019492 to Item number: 160653594396
8. compare ebay Item number: 160658451251 to Item number: 160653593283
9. compare ebay Item number: 160658449747 to Item number: 160653591092
10 compare ebay Item number: 120786013356 to Item number: 160653588875
11 compare ebay Item number: 120785047998 to Item number: 160652505600
I guess he figured nobody would notice.
PROOF:
1. compare ebay Item number: 120786028185 to Item number: 160653607394
2. compare ebay Item number: 160658458041 to Item number: 160653605880
3. compare ebay Item number: 120786025582 to Item number: 160653604672
4. compare ebay Item number: 120786024151 to Item number: 160653602650
5. compare ebay Item number: 160658454855 to Item number: 160653599928
6. compare ebay Item number: 120786022152 to Item number: 160653596535
7. compare ebay Item number: 120786019492 to Item number: 160653594396
8. compare ebay Item number: 160658451251 to Item number: 160653593283
9. compare ebay Item number: 160658449747 to Item number: 160653591092
10 compare ebay Item number: 120786013356 to Item number: 160653588875
11 compare ebay Item number: 120785047998 to Item number: 160652505600
I guess he figured nobody would notice.
0
Comments
Hoard the keys.
maybe send sasharcrazy that poster and make him stare at it'
the Ebay requires full disclosure if it is known.
bob
.
i am a crack-out jedi
this is done using my green light saber
.
.
only accidentally cut a couple in half so far
.
.
<--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -
<< <i>I'll get him right on it Good work.
>>
When I first saw this here, last year, I started laughing, I don't think I've stopped. It is the funniest thing I have seen on the 'net.
Quite a business model! There is an outfit in Texas that just cracks out 58's and "genuines" and sells them raw, they sell A LOT of coins.
<< <i>I do believe the Ebay requires full disclosure if it is known. >>
If so, that's the first I heard of it.
Seems like a lot of coin auctions would be lost to eBay if that was the case.
<< <i>Sent my Ebay rep a note and we'll see what, if anything, they do about this. I do believe
the Ebay requires full disclosure if it is known.
bob >>
Nope, they don't.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>I do believe the Ebay requires full disclosure if it is known. >>
If so, that's the first I heard of it.
Seems like a lot of coin auctions would be lost to eBay if that was the case. >>
Should the fact that certified MS65 coin once resided in an MS63 slab be disclosed?
Or that it was once body bagged as AT?
Or that CAC refused to give it a sticker?
The coins don't look any worse than the typical raw material on the market.
If the OP wants to play Ebay police, there are much worse things to go after.
<< <i>I guess he figured nobody would notice. >>
Little did he know you'd be on the job!
Could this be your way of settling a grudge with this seller?
Otherwise why should you even care?
Of all the nonsense that goes on in eBay auctions, this barely registers on the scam scale - if at all.
<< <i>The ebay seller, sashacrazy, has a new scam. He lists his coins in problem NGC holders on ebay. Than, if they don't sell, he crack's the coins out and re-lists them as 'raw' perfect problem free coins
PROOF:
1. compare ebay Item number: 120786028185 to Item number: 160653607394
2. compare ebay Item number: 160658458041 to Item number: 160653605880
3. compare ebay Item number: 120786025582 to Item number: 160653604672
4. compare ebay Item number: 120786024151 to Item number: 160653602650
5. compare ebay Item number: 160658454855 to Item number: 160653599928
6. compare ebay Item number: 120786022152 to Item number: 160653596535
7. compare ebay Item number: 120786019492 to Item number: 160653594396
8. compare ebay Item number: 160658451251 to Item number: 160653593283
9. compare ebay Item number: 160658449747 to Item number: 160653591092
10 compare ebay Item number: 120786013356 to Item number: 160653588875
11 compare ebay Item number: 120785047998 to Item number: 160652505600
I guess he figured nobody would notice. >>
Apparently eBay agreed that this seller, sashacrazy, was cracking his coins out and not mentioning the KNOWN PROBLEMS in their listings as eBay has REMOVED his listings.
Good work eBay. eBay deserves kudos for looking out for the consumer
<< <i>Apparently eBay agreed that this seller, sashacrazy, was cracking his coins out and not mentioning the KNOWN PROBLEMS in their listings as eBay has REMOVED his listings.
Good work eBay. eBay deserves kudos for looking out for the consumer >>
Please post your own eBay handle so I'll know to block you.
<< <i>
<< <i>Apparently eBay agreed that this seller, sashacrazy, was cracking his coins out and not mentioning the KNOWN PROBLEMS in their listings as eBay has REMOVED his listings.
Good work eBay. eBay deserves kudos for looking out for the consumer >>
Please post your own eBay handle so I'll know to block you. >>
Huh, his handle is sashacrazy
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
<< <i>Wow, a guy comes in with some great info about a seller misrepresenting his auctions, and we insult him. Interesting. I, for one, applaud him for his keen eye and for sharing this with us. >>
Hmmm.
When it comes time to sell my 1961 Clipped Type B Quarter, I guess I'll now be "forced" to disclose that it got a Genuine "No Grade" for cleaning the first time I submitted it but it graded the next time I submitted it. (MS63)
I wonder what would have happened after I got the Genuine for Cleaning, had I cracked it out and sold it raw as a code 92. Or worse yet, sold it in the Genuine 92 slab only to have the buyer, who no doubt would have gotten a helluva deal, crack it out, resubmit it and get a graded coin on the resubmission?
I realize that, even though some folks think so, not every coin which gets labeled Genuine for Cleaning is actually a Genuine for Cleaning coin since that is an OPINION which can change from grader to grader.
I also realize that some photographs do not accurately portray a coin and that a lot of what "apears" to be cleaned, may not actually be cleaned.
I also realize that some folks don't really care about the slab and crack these out anyway for their Dansco's.
I also realize that a lot of folks don't necessarily agree with me or with what I do.
But, whatever, another scumbag seller has gotten his listings cancelled because he didn't do it the way somebody else thought was how it should be done.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>Apparently eBay agreed that this seller, sashacrazy, was cracking his coins out and not mentioning the KNOWN PROBLEMS in their listings as eBay has REMOVED his listings.
Good work eBay. eBay deserves kudos for looking out for the consumer >>
Please post your own eBay handle so I'll know to block you. >>
Do you really think that any forum members here want to buy from you?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
<< <i>Please, Lee. 11 listings of relisted problem coins now "raw" with no problems listed. Don't ya think its a little strange? Just a LITTLE? >>
It's not really my business to protect buyers from themselves by getting someone's listings cancelled. Reported to the forum is one thing, but interfering with someone whom you don't even know and have no idea what the coins really look like and getting the listings cancelled is something else.
Were the coins counterfeit?
Did ANYBODY actually see them in hand?
Each listing had a 7 day return privilege which could have been exercised had the buyer thought the coin might have been cleaned. (See my post above where just because it got a 92 doesn't mean it really was a 92.)
But, whatever.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>Apparently eBay agreed that this seller, sashacrazy, was cracking his coins out and not mentioning the KNOWN PROBLEMS in their listings as eBay has REMOVED his listings.
Good work eBay. eBay deserves kudos for looking out for the consumer >>
Please post your own eBay handle so I'll know to block you. >>
WOW, so you think it is perfectly OK for a coin seller, or any kind of seller, to purposely hide KNOWN problems of their items. I guess my idea of ETHICS is way off than. I have no issues with this guy cracking-out his coins from the NGC holders and selling them 'RAW' on ebay, my problem is that he knew a 3rd party had noted a problem with the coin and he did not mention this in his description of the coin. I find it very hard to believe that all 11 of the coins he cracked-out of the NGC holders were all wrong and had no problems.
PS: Don't worry about blocking me from buying from you, I wouldn't buy a coin from you under any circumstances.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Apparently eBay agreed that this seller, sashacrazy, was cracking his coins out and not mentioning the KNOWN PROBLEMS in their listings as eBay has REMOVED his listings.
Good work eBay. eBay deserves kudos for looking out for the consumer >>
Please post your own eBay handle so I'll know to block you. >>
WOW, so you think it is perfectly OK for a coin seller, or any kind of seller, to purposely hide KNOWN problems of their items. I guess my idea of ETHICS is way off than. I have no issues with this guy cracking-out his coins from the NGC holders and selling them 'RAW' on ebay, my problem is that he knew a 3rd party had noted a problem with the coin and he did not mention this in his description of the coin. I find it very hard to believe that all 11 of the coins he cracked-out of the NGC holders were all wrong and had no problems.
PS: Don't worry about blocking me from buying from you, I wouldn't buy a coin from you under any circumstances. >>
Unless you have personal, unimpeachable evidence that what you said is true, you are just another busybody and wannabe netcop.
I can't help but feel you have some personal axe to grind against that seller.
I would hate to be the unfortunate purchaser of one of those 11 coins that worth half of what I paid because the seller elected not to disclose the problems, that a third party had spotted, in their description of the coin. Would you want to buy a house where the seller decided not to tell you about a crack in the foundation........."The Money Pit" Tom Hanks, Shelly Long
A crack in a house is tangible whereas "cleaned/uncleaned" is only an opinion and not always provable or even agreed upon as has been demonstrated.
The name is LEE!
Geezer-If you were bidding and won a coin advertised as original and problem free... and found later that the seller had bought it out of an auction in a details, genuine or net grade holder as having been cleaned, damaged, repaired, etc.- (TT and HA sell such things regularly, in fact perusal of their archives are how such things usually get uncovered)... you certainly aren't trying to tell us that you'd be totally OK with that...right?
This is a disturbing trend-buying problem slabs, cracking and selling as if original on ebay. I've seen instances where the coin was toned or otherwise fixed to hide or ameliorate the original problem(s) and then sold raw at a hefty profit to an unknowledgeable buyer. I've reported several of these types of things personally and am proud to get such dodgy sellers' listings pulled. I didn't do it to save anyone from themselves or to play net cop. I've only done it when I had evidence to back my claims. And I did it to try to help improve the hobby- and by extension, the business. It's people like this who cast a shadow over honest ebay sellers- and coin dealers in general for that matter. To ebay's credit, they are actually beginning to take action when shown evidence of such deception.
Let me clarify- I'm not talking about "judgement call" stuff...I'm talking about things that had obvious, identifiable problems that were cracked out and either "fixed" or simply resold raw as problem free.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Not necessarily true. Perhaps the seller saw that the netcops were rounding up a rope... and he canceled his auctions.
<< <i>Geezer-If you were bidding and won a coin advertised as original and problem free... and found later that the seller had bought it out of an auction in a details, genuine or net grade holder as having been cleaned, damaged, repaired, etc.- (TT and HA sell such things regularly, in fact perusal of their archives are how such things usually get uncovered)... you certainly aren't trying to tell us that you'd be totally OK with that...right? >>
No, I wouldn't be OK with that, which is why I only buy certified coins with a return policy on eBay.
I prefer to buy raw coins at shows, auctions and my local B&M, where I can examine them before I plunk down my gelt.
What I wonder though, is why the newbie OP was investigating the seller in the first place if, as he claims, he's had no interaction with him?
And why did the OP feel the need to come here and post what he did.
I tried to examine the auctions he mentioned but I couldn't verify his claims.
I just can't help but suspect that the OP had other than an altruistic motive but I'm frequently wrong
<< <i>"So, ebay apparently agrees that there is "unimpeachable evidence" that what I reported to them was true."
Not necessarily true. Perhaps the seller saw that the netcops were rounding up a rope... and he canceled his auctions. >>
Nope, ebay T&S sent me an email thanking me for reporting the items and that after reviewing the evidence, EBAY removed his listings. Came from Judith directly
Kewpie Doll award-10/29/2007
Successful BST transactions with Coinboy and Wondercoin.
coin category about disclosure. No, I'm not going to look for it and post it here, find it
yourself. But, regardless Ebay ended many of his auctions. I do thank the OP as this
type of business is shady at best. Deception does not belong on Ebay. IF you had a
chance to hold the coin and view it in person then all bets are off. But, you cannot do
that on Ebay. It's a horse of a different color.
Here is Ebay's response to my inquiry as to whether they approve of this type of selling:
"Thank you for writing eBay to report these potentially violating
listings to us.
I have thoroughly investigated your report, and have confirmed that the
seller was exhibiting activity not permitted by eBay policy. As such, I
have removed the listings from the eBay site.
Again, thank you for your report. We appreciate your help in keeping
eBay a safe and reputable forum to conduct business. "
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>All of this makes a novice like me very hesitent to buy a coin off ebay. >>
Good. Thats what it's supposed to do.
Go to coins shows or coin shops until you feel comfortable or stick with sealed proof sets or mint sets.
For eBay, be aware of the sellers return policy and always remember, improperly cleaned can be interpreted many different ways and unless it's obviously done with a brillo pad, it's simply a matter of opinion.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>All of this makes a novice like me very hesitent to buy a coin off ebay. >>
Stick with PCGS or NGC coins with a return policy and you can't go too far wrong.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Cleaning is obviously an opinion, I've seen lots of obviously cleaned coins in slabs...I've even bought a few. It's the "problem free" statement that I object to. I would guess that millions of raw problem coins have been sold on EBay, and this is just 11 more. Just don't say they aren't. I appreciate every thread like this since usually I learn something and appreciate that someone is trying to protect newbies. >>
I do agree that the sellers "description" was over the top.
The name is LEE!
I agree that he shouldn't label "problem free" when he cracked then out of gennies. If anything, he wasn't very bright in selling before letting the old auctions slide off of the 90 day window. With any coin you buy you should beware and not walk into a purchase as a clueless buyer.
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
<< <i>What I find interesting...and more than a little ironic...is that the OP himself has had listings removed in the past for something not all that different... i.e., buying problem slabs and then not listing the problems in the title or description of the auction. Thinning the competition in the "recycled problem slab" niche perhaps? >>
THAT IS ALIE....I have NEVER had any of my coin listings EVER removed by ebay. Go back to your fantasy land
<< <i>
<< <i>What I find interesting...and more than a little ironic...is that the OP himself has had listings removed in the past for something not all that different... i.e., buying problem slabs and then not listing the problems in the title or description of the auction. Thinning the competition in the "recycled problem slab" niche perhaps? >>
THAT IS ALIE....I have NEVER had any of my coin listings EVER removed by ebay. Go back to your fantasy land >>
OK, whatever you say. I suppose the multiple threads on Ebay boards and Ebay groups were about a different g048406...
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>"So, ebay apparently agrees that there is "unimpeachable evidence" that what I reported to them was true."
Not necessarily true. Perhaps the seller saw that the netcops were rounding up a rope... and he canceled his auctions. >>
Nope, ebay T&S sent me an email thanking me for reporting the items and that after reviewing the evidence, EBAY removed his listings. Came from Judith directly >>
Did the email go something like this?:
"Thank you for doing our dirty work for us, i.e. harassing sellers over minor issues. Without the vigilance of non-involved parties such as yourself, Ebay would have to actually hire people to do this. Love, Judith"
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>What I find interesting...and more than a little ironic...is that the OP himself has had listings removed in the past for something not all that different... i.e., buying problem slabs and then not listing the problems in the title or description of the auction. Thinning the competition in the "recycled problem slab" niche perhaps? >>
THAT IS ALIE....I have NEVER had any of my coin listings EVER removed by ebay. Go back to your fantasy land >>
OK, whatever you say. I suppose the multiple threads on Ebay boards and Ebay groups were about a different g048406... >>
I've checked g048406's eBay auctions and it seems he has several "details" graded coin listed now.
Maybe professional rivalry between him and the seller he reported?
At any rate, I'll be watching g048406's auctions and I'll be sure to report the most minor infraction to eBay because, after all, it's the right thing to do!
I do however have a problem with them doing so and not disclosing said problems or using misleading descriptions, including the type that mention the coin's been certified but conveniently don't mention the issue(s) anywhere in the title or description.
And I have a big problem with people who buy such things that have OBVIOUS problems, i.e., damage, scratches, obvious harsh cleaning/polishing, etc., crack them, "fix" them and then try to sell them as if problem free.
I certainly wouldn't call that a "minor issue".
People who engage in such behaviors are part of what's wrong with the hobby- and frankly I am at a loss to understand why some seem to think it's not a big deal.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>Let me be clear. I have NO problem whatsoever with someone selling details or problem slabs... there is a significant market for such coins and many sellers are catering to said market.
I do however have a problem with them doing so and not disclosing said problems or using misleading descriptions, including the type that mention the coin's been certified but conveniently don't mention the issue(s) anywhere in the title or description.
And I have a big problem with people who buy such things that have OBVIOUS problems, i.e., damage, scratches, obvious harsh cleaning/polishing, etc., crack them, "fix" them and then try to sell them as if problem free.
I certainly wouldn't call that a "minor issue".
People who engage in such behaviors are part of what's wrong with the hobby- and frankly I am at a loss to understand why some seem to think it's not a big deal. >>
I agree 100%, that is why I ALWAYS disclose any problems that a TPG has stated on the holder in ALL MY DESCRIPTIONS along with numerous high definition photos of every coin that I sell. As I stated before, I have NEVER EVER had a single listing of mine removed by ebay and, ebay has never notified me of anyone ever complaining about any of my listings. I have certainly made enemies of the CROOKS that sell on ebay because I OPENLY report them for SERIOUS violations, as in the case here.
a communication.
bob
<< <i>g048046, turn on your PM function please. There are times when the whole world does not need to see
a communication.
bob >>
Hi Bob,
What is a 'PM function' ?, and how do I turn it on.
Mitch
<< <i>
<< <i>g048046, turn on your PM function please. There are times when the whole world does not need to see
a communication.
bob >>
Hi Bob,
What is a 'PM function' ?, and how do I turn it on.
Mitch >>
PM=Private Message
There's a field in your profile to click if you want PMs yes or no - click on the "profile" button on the top of the pagr.
While there add an avatar to your profile, there's about a zillion to choose from now.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Apparently eBay agreed that this seller, sashacrazy, was cracking his coins out and not mentioning the KNOWN PROBLEMS in their listings as eBay has REMOVED his listings.
Good work eBay. eBay deserves kudos for looking out for the consumer >>
Please post your own eBay handle so I'll know to block you. >>
WOW, so you think it is perfectly OK for a coin seller, or any kind of seller, to purposely hide KNOWN problems of their items. I guess my idea of ETHICS is way off than. I have no issues with this guy cracking-out his coins from the NGC holders and selling them 'RAW' on ebay, my problem is that he knew a 3rd party had noted a problem with the coin and he did not mention this in his description of the coin. I find it very hard to believe that all 11 of the coins he cracked-out of the NGC holders were all wrong and had no problems.
PS: Don't worry about blocking me from buying from you, I wouldn't buy a coin from you under any circumstances. >>
Are you surprised by this. This forum is loaded with dirtbags who make their money doing exactly what the seller, sashacrazy, is doing. They kicked a lot of the honest guys out of here for being honest.
My apologies to the honest dealers here.