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Does PCGS even care about invalid certs? Final Update!

Updates are on page three.

I purchased several Merc Dimes off HA.com on 8/30/11, and attempted to add them to my registry set shortly afterwards. Much to my dismay, four were listed as in another persons registry and one was coming up as an 1879-S MS64 Morgan. I sent off an email to the prior owner about the coins listed in their registry, which did nothing. I also emailed PCGS about the invalid certificate number and linked them to the HA.com auction. I received a reply the next day that my request was being forwarded to customer service, and was CC'ed on the forward. Five days later, still nothing from customer service, so I reply to the CC and hear back the next day recommending I call. I figure I'll give them one more day, and I hear back the next day from someone else at customer service stating that they are looking into it and will let me know when it's fixed. That's September 8th.

Fast forward to the fourteenth. I receive my winnings, which jogs my memory, and I once again try to add all the Mercs to my registry. None go through. At this point, I still haven't heard anything from customer service, so I decide to call, figuring they've had plenty long enough to fix it. I speak with a guy, he has me email him pictures of the coins and certs so that he can get it resolved. I don't hear anything else from him for three days, respond asking for a follow-up since they still aren't going through, and get no reply. Fast forward again to the 22nd, I fire off an email to BJ Searls, who much to her credit, gets my four certs that were coming up right removed from whatever registry they used to be in so that I can add them (Thanks again, BJ) and forward my email to the Customer Service Manager, Trista King, who responds in the typical damage control way about understanding my frustration and whatnot. She must have said something to the guy I spoke with over the phone, because I get an email from him stating that it should be fixed within 48 hours the same day.

Again, we move on to 9/27. Still no fix with the certificate number. I email Chris asking for an update, he can only tell me he's emailed the operations manager asking for an update, and I haven't heard back from him since. (EDIT: Just emailed him and got an out-of-office reply... dude is gone until 10/24, great.)

Thirty one freakin' days and my certificate is still coming up wrong. What a sh!tshow!

Here's the coin, go ahead, try to add it to your registry.

image

image

With all the time I've spent via email and on the phone trying to get this fixed, I'm practically buried in this coin. I bet they'll just fix it and expect me to be happy with the sunk cost of hours of my time. It should have been right in the first place, this is their SNAFU, I shouldn't have to clean it up.

Cliff Notes: PCGS's customer service sucks and I'm at my wits end with them.
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Comments

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,285 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Do you spend hours collecting coins as a hobby or for the registry numbers?
    While I can understand the frustration (I have had some bad certs and jumped through a few hoops that cost me money in postage), the time I spent didn't even factor because I look at this as a RELAXING HOBBY.....

    You are turning it into a frustration for yourself.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭
    Just for the record, this is BJ Searls:

    image
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>who much to his credit, gets my four certs that >>



    that threw me off as well

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If this is the greatest calamity that you experience as a collector, you will be far ahead of most and most certainly ahead of me.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sounds like poor customer service. Hopefully Don Willis will see this thread and help you get this resolved.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭✭
    I sent info to them in late May, including the slab photos. Still waiting.
  • Thanks for the heads up about BJ... fixed that. My apologies. And yes, my hope is that someone will see this and help me out, I certainly am not getting much of anywhere via email and phone calls.

    The supposed Morgan dollar isn't in another registry set... can't see why they won't just overwrite it with the proper information.
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    I have always used the link at the bottom of the registry pages for to send emails to PCGS customer service, and it has always taken less than two days. Try emailing through that link with images of the front and back of the coins, and see if they fix it for you that way.

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭✭
    That's the link I used initially. I printed out a copy and used that as the photo background.
  • SoCalBigMarkSoCalBigMark Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Registry fever is some bad elmo...
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, they care. It's their product and their brand name reputation. Managing the minor hiccups in a free service (Registry Sets) is just not going to be a major priority. Frustrating, sure, but calamitous, no. It'll get fixed.

    "... Customer Service Manager, Trista King, who responds in the typical damage control way about understanding my frustration and whatnot." How did you expect a Customer Service Manager to respond, "Stop being an anal-retentive whiner about your little coin and leave us alone!"? image

    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Managing the minor hiccups in a free service (Registry Sets) is just not going to be a major priority >>



    if that were the attitude held by PCGS (I think it is not), then that would be a huge mistake. MUCH of the rise of PCGS over its competitors is due to a very well-run Registry program. Attention to little things is important when it comes to staying in that number one position.

    It may be a "free" service, but it is driving a huge chunk of revenue for PCGS.


  • << <i>

    << <i>Managing the minor hiccups in a free service (Registry Sets) is just not going to be a major priority >>



    if that were the attitude held by PCGS (I think it is not), then that would be a huge mistake. MUCH of the rise of PCGS over its competitors is due to a very well-run Registry program. Attention to little things is important when it comes to staying in that number one position.

    It may be a "free" service, but it is driving a huge chunk of revenue for PCGS. >>


    You are absolutely 100% correct.
    PCGS advertises its registry set feature in many numismatic publications and it is an overall money-maker for them.
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Managing the minor hiccups in a free service (Registry Sets) is just not going to be a major priority >>



    if that were the attitude held by PCGS (I think it is not), then that would be a huge mistake. MUCH of the rise of PCGS over its competitors is due to a very well-run Registry program. Attention to little things is important when it comes to staying in that number one position.

    It may be a "free" service, but it is driving a huge chunk of revenue for PCGS. >>

    You make an excellent point (although I don't know how much is a 'huge chunk"). The anecdotes here, however, don't support that PCGS is placing a lot of effort into fixing something as simple as an invalid s/n. Then again, maybe it does take a heroic effort ... I don't know. When I have needed to have a s/n removed from another Registry Set and placed into mine, it took just a couple of days, not weeks. My experience with PCGS customer service has always been good, not great, just good enough to get things done.
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The supposed Morgan dollar isn't in another registry set... can't see why they won't just overwrite it with the proper information. >>

    I think there might be more to it than that. A lot more questions and validations need to occur.

    Were duplicate cert numbers actually issued?
    If so, which one will be valid? The Dollar or the Dime.
    What other coins were in the submission lot?
    Are there other duplicates from the same submission?
    Is the dime a counterfeit slab?
    Is the dollar a counterfeit slab?

    Most importantly, what happened?

    Coin Numbers and Certification Numbers are the very heart of the PCGS System and they will not simply "change" the attributes associated with a certification number without being absolutely sure that it's warranted. I don't really know that a phone call or even an email with photographs is going to be enough evidence since it does affect two completely different coins.

    But thats just my opinion.


    << <i>With all the time I've spent via email and on the phone trying to get this fixed, I'm practically buried in this coin. I bet they'll just fix it and expect me to be happy with the sunk cost of hours of my time. It should have been right in the first place, this is their SNAFU, I shouldn't have to clean it up. >>

    You cannot be serious with the above statement. How could a couple of emails and a couple of 1-800-447-8848 phone calls "bury" you in a $161 coin? Yes, you are a "customer" (so to speak) of PCGS by owning the coin but implying that they might possible "owe" you something is really stretching the bounds of reality.

    You could always return it to Heritage and let them sort it out.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>When I have needed to have a s/n removed from another Registry Set and placed into mine, it took just a couple of days, not weeks. >>



    same here.
  • khaysekhayse Posts: 1,336
    I've have had this problem my my newly purchased coins still in anothers registry set several times this year.

    I had to send the email requesting the former owner take them out of their set, wait about 4 days, and then send in my pictures of the coins in my possession. PCGS was fast and friendly at getting them removed. image

    Not sure what it will take to get the mixed up cert rectified. I would email BJ though. I'm sure she will help.

    -Keith
  • khaysekhayse Posts: 1,336
    Wow, just reread through all you posted. I get it's frustrating but you can't expect them to just overwrite their record on your say so. I wouldn't be surprised if you have to mail the coin in so they can check it and figure out why their cert database is off.

    Anyway you shouldn't get so worked up about this. And you can't add in the time you spent on a coin into the costs you have spent on the coin...or we would all be buried in our coins. It's supposed to be a hobby, time spent = enjoyment and fun. image

    -Keith
  • crypto79crypto79 Posts: 8,623
    NO ! and they hate kittens too ! Chill out and give it time and it will sort its self out, it's just an online list it isn't really important.
  • I don't think spending hours on the phone and writing emails qualifies as fun under any definition of the word.

    I can tell you right now as someone who worked in retail management for three years that if I had a customer that sunk three or four hours into fixing our mistake, I'd be kissing their ass.

    I bet that if this was a $10,000 low pop coin, my problem would be fixed by now without resorting to taking the situation public. But no, it's just a $160 merc dime...
  • nankrautnankraut Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Do you spend hours collecting coins as a hobby or for the registry numbers?
    While I can understand the frustration (I have had some bad certs and jumped through a few hoops that cost me money in postage), the time I spent didn't even factor because I look at this as a RELAXING HOBBY.....

    You are turning it into a frustration for yourself. >>



    +1image
    I'm the Proud recipient of a genuine "you suck" award dated 1/24/05. I was accepted into the "Circle of Trust" on 3/9/09.
  • Non-Registry related:

    I have a coin with a bad DB entry. It says DCAM on the label. The coin looks DCAM. But when verifying the cert number comes up as MS. I called and emailed twice with no change. The emails included a photo of the slab.

    No biggie. The coin is obviously proof and the label doesn't add any value. It did seem like rather sloppy (lack of) customer service though.
  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,697 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It was a while ago, perhaps even ten years ago, but at one time PCGS admitted that there were recording errors and omissions for cert numbers beginning in 50. It looks like this coin was one of that group.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭
    It would save some hassles to look up the cert numbers when possible before bidding. Then you could avoid it and bid on another coin or tell the auction house, maybe they would pull it until the cert issue is resolved.
    That will avoid hassling with invalid or wrong cert numbered coins.

    I think auction houses should verify certs before listing a coin.
    Ed
  • Finally got an answer.

    They want me to send it in so they can reholder it.

    I'm not willing to lose the OGH as that's part of the set I'm trying to build.

    Not happy at all.
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Finally got an answer.

    They want me to send it in so they can reholder it.

    I'm not willing to lose the OGH as that's part of the set I'm trying to build.

    Not happy at all. >>

    image I guess you just cannot please some people.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • fcfc Posts: 12,788 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Finally got an answer.

    They want me to send it in so they can reholder it.

    I'm not willing to lose the OGH as that's part of the set I'm trying to build.

    Not happy at all. >>

    image I guess you just cannot please some people. >>



    Sending a coin in is not exactly what i would want to hear. Running to the post
    office during business hours is a chore. Wanting to keep the OGH is a real concern.
    Would you be saying the same thing if it was a RED cent in a OGH? Somehow I
    doubt it.

    Lets face it. This should just be a database change made by an IT guy to straighten
    this out unless I a missing something critical.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lets face it. This should just be a database change made by an IT guy to straighten
    this out unless I a missing something critical.


    I agree.
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭
    I'm guessing that the reason they can't just fix it in the database is because that cert number is also used for the Morgan dollar that comes up when you verify the cert number.
    The only way they can "fix" it is re-holder one of them with a new number and since the dollar already matches the database that means re-holder yours.

    If that's the case I'd call HA and tell them to take it back because the cert doesn't check out and you only wanted the coin in the OGH. Tell HA you want them to either get it fixed in the OGH (which probably can't be done) or give a refund and see what they say.

    It's best to verify cert numbers before bidding when possible, it would have avoided this.
    Ed
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Finally got an answer.

    They want me to send it in so they can reholder it.

    I'm not willing to lose the OGH as that's part of the set I'm trying to build.

    Not happy at all. >>



    Now I think you have a legitimate complaint. I'd hate to give up the OGH.

    Imagine the same problem with one of these:

    image
  • The few times I've had problems adding coins to the registry it was taken care of in a timely manner. No more than 2-3 days.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm guessing that the reason they can't just fix it in the database is because that cert number is also used for the Morgan dollar that comes up when you verify the cert number.
    The only way they can "fix" it is re-holder one of them with a new number and since the dollar already matches the database that means re-holder yours.

    If that's the case I'd call HA and tell them to take it back because the cert doesn't check out and you only wanted the coin in the OGH. Tell HA you want them to either get it fixed in the OGH (which probably can't be done) or give a refund and see what they say.

    It's best to verify cert numbers before bidding when possible, it would have avoided this. >>




    I had the same issue with a Walker in a doily holder. They suggested I send it in. I decided not to. Apparently the "other coin" that it was supposed to be was not in a registry or someone's inventory so it wasn't possible to locate the owner.
  • I just stated my case that I believe the Morgan has probably been cracked out, as the majority of OGH Morgans have been, and I also asked if it has ever been in a registry set... If it hasn't and currently isnt, why not displace it?

    Would you rather piss off a current customer, or maybe piss off a future customer?

    Pretty easy decision if you ask me.
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Finally got an answer.

    They want me to send it in so they can reholder it.

    I'm not willing to lose the OGH as that's part of the set I'm trying to build.

    Not happy at all. >>



    Now I think you have a legitimate complaint. I'd hate to give up the OGH.

    Imagine the same problem with one of these:

    image >>

    Perhaps I do not understand Jerry.
    Exactly what are you saying with regard to the above coins?
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Finally got an answer. They want me to send it in so they can reholder it. I'm not willing to lose the OGH as that's part of the set I'm trying to build. Not happy at all. >>

    Now I think you have a legitimate complaint. I'd hate to give up the OGH. Imagine the same problem with one of these: image >>

    Perhaps I do not understand Jerry. Exactly what are you saying with regard to the above coins? >>



    I'm saying that I wouldn't let them reholder one of those coins and get it back with a nice new blue label. --Jerry
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭
    IMO, the coin in the OP needs to get reholdered because the cert number is bad and will always be bad until it gets reholdered. It's really too bad that this is the way it is but sometimes this stuff just happens.

    A review of cert numbers 05017377 - 0501415 (39 Coins) shows that every coin graded in that range was an 1879-S Morgan. So really, what is the probability that the number assigned to the dime is actually a "good" number?
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Finally got an answer. They want me to send it in so they can reholder it. I'm not willing to lose the OGH as that's part of the set I'm trying to build. Not happy at all. >>

    Now I think you have a legitimate complaint. I'd hate to give up the OGH. Imagine the same problem with one of these: image >>

    Perhaps I do not understand Jerry. Exactly what are you saying with regard to the above coins? >>



    I'm saying that I wouldn't let them reholder one of those coins and get it back with a nice new blue label. --Jerry >>



    None of them appear to be available for display either.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I can't believe I am reading that you would allow customer service to advise you to send the coin in and lose the ogh for a cert issue. If you listen you are a fool, I would leave it alone because fo the ogh benefits and find another way or forget them. I believe your motivations are now misplaced. >>



    Depending upon the coin, I wouldn't submit it.
  • Well, for my trouble, I'm getting five free submissions. Now I just have to figure out what to submit. Don't really have anything raw that's worth sending in.

    Now, what to do with this Merc?
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Well, for my trouble, I'm getting five free submissions. Now I just have to figure out what to submit. Don't really have anything raw that's worth sending in.

    Now, what to do with this Merc? >>

    Wouldn't the return of the Merc be the condition for the 5 free submissions?
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • BigEBigE Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭
    Why cant they just print a new blue label for the coin and just send you the label, and leave the coin as is in the OGH? Enter the new cert number in registry and everything is ok. Tape the new cert to the oghimage--------------------BigE
    I'm glad I am a Tree
  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    White-Out! Well, make that baby doo doo Green-Out. image

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection



  • << <i>Finally got an answer.

    They want me to send it in so they can reholder it.

    I'm not willing to lose the OGH as that's part of the set I'm trying to build.

    Not happy at all. >>



    The last time I had a coin with an invalid cert. it was in a rattler holder. PCGS asked me to send images of both sides of the slab and entered the cert. in the system without having to ship the coin to them.
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Finally got an answer.

    They want me to send it in so they can reholder it.

    I'm not willing to lose the OGH as that's part of the set I'm trying to build.

    Not happy at all. >>



    The last time I had a coin with an invalid cert. it was in a rattler holder. PCGS asked me to send images of both sides of the slab and entered the cert. in the system without having to ship the coin to them. >>

    What was the "nature" of "invalid"?

    It has to be a cert number which brings up a completely different coin to be a valid comparison.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!


  • << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Finally got an answer.

    They want me to send it in so they can reholder it.

    I'm not willing to lose the OGH as that's part of the set I'm trying to build.

    Not happy at all. >>



    The last time I had a coin with an invalid cert. it was in a rattler holder. PCGS asked me to send images of both sides of the slab and entered the cert. in the system without having to ship the coin to them. >>

    What was the "nature" of "invalid"?

    It has to be a cert number which brings up a completely different coin to be a valid comparison. >>



    The cert. wasn't in the system. It came up as cert. not in database or something similar to that.
  • BaronVonBaughBaronVonBaugh Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't think spending hours on the phone and writing emails qualifies as fun under any definition of the word.

    I can tell you right now as someone who worked in retail management for three years that if I had a customer that sunk three or four hours into fixing our mistake, I'd be kissing their ass.

    I bet that if this was a $10,000 low pop coin, my problem would be fixed by now without resorting to taking the situation public. But no, it's just a $160 merc dime... >>



    I have three coins that have the same problem. One I have had for years and the others I got in the last couple of years. I could really cheat the system with two of them.

    05004844 comes up as a 1942-D 50c valued at $15,000.00, it is actually a 1960 5C PR68DC worth far less.
    Proof Jefferson

    05004909 comes up as a 1887 $1 valued at $195.00, it is actually a 1938 buffalo nickel worth far less.
    This was the first slabbed coin I ever bought. I had it for several years before I ever tried to put it in my inventory.
    It was purchased at a local show years ago.

    The last one is a modern commemorative dollar that I would have to go through everything to find. The number is not in the system.
    I bought this one off ebay several years ago.

    They wanted me to mail them in and I would have to be a member of the Collector's Club to do that.
    This is obviously their mistake in their data base and I as a collector should not have to spend money to correct it.
    I have tried to work with them on these coins. I sent them pictures and info as to how they were purchased.
  • 45 days later, someone decided to change some lines of code.

    image

    Thank you very much, PCGS.

    Lesson here, guys? Persistence will get you what you want... Provided you're not a Richard about it.

    Now, what to do with these five free certs? I think PCGS won me over here.
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Congrats! Wow, that took a while but finally with the best result.
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • Bump for all the geriatric ward folks in bed early last night. image

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