Just how big a problem is trimming with vintage baseball cards?
Marine1
Posts: 5
Just received a card for my '56 Topps Set, a Ted Kluszewski in PSA 8. After opening the package, it didn't take me but a few seconds to notice the top edge had 'bat-ear' upward cuts on both razor sharp corners. Of course the middle of the card is a bit wavy, which looks like a scissor job was done.
I know that PSA tries to weed these out, but how pervasive of a problem is this with our hobby?
Doug
I know that PSA tries to weed these out, but how pervasive of a problem is this with our hobby?
Doug
0
Comments
With the volume PSA does, trimmed cards can slip through the cracks.
I had a couple of submissions I purchased on eBay come back as trimmed, though I didn't really agree....Bothered me to no end. Put them aside for a couple of years and after resubmitting them, they both came back 7s.
I'm reluctant to purchase raw cards unless I can buy a decent sized lot, and just weed out the trimmed ones. If there's more than a couple, I'll return the lot.
Too bad to read of your Klu experience.
<< <i>It's been going on for decades. I've collected 53 Bowmans for 35 years and have seen more trimmed raw cards posted on eBay than ever. Complete sets where many key cards are clearly short cuts.
With the volume PSA does, trimmed cards can slip through the cracks.
I had a couple of submissions I purchased on eBay come back as trimmed, though I didn't really agree....Bothered me to no end. Put them aside for a couple of years and after resubmitting them, they both came back 7s.
I'm reluctant to purchase raw cards unless I can buy a decent sized lot, and just weed out the trimmed ones. If there's more than a couple, I'll return the lot.
Too bad to read of your Klu experience. >>
It seems to me lately that grading cards is somewhat of a joke. If they come back trimmed, you can wait a few years, resubmit them and then they come back at a 7. I read that people submit a card, don't like the grade then resubmit again and get a better grade. The excuse is that they do so much in volume that some can slip through the cracks. It seems to me that if your only job is to professionally grade something you should be consistent 100% of the time. Yes, I know people can make mistakes but accuarately grading is the only thing you pay them for.
Case in point: Back in July, I went to a card show and was shown a box of about 3,000 1975 Topps Mini's with perfectly clean edges and sharp corners. I thought I had hit the jackpot, but when I started measuring them and examing them closely, I realized that nearly all were trimmed 0.5 to 1 mm mostly in the vertical direction, but some horizontally as well. These were beautiful cards otherwise, and I figured it must have been a situation where someone had a case of these cards and wanted to perfect them. These cards showed signs of all being from the same print run (e.g., there were duplicates of certain cards that all had fisheyes and other distinct print marks located in the same place). It was absolutely a disheartening experience for me.
Dave
PS For you enviromentalist, I do recycle the entire card when finished.
If you truly have a card in a PSA holder that has been trimmed PSA will make good on it for you. Just call customer service and explain the situation.
Jeff
machine that micro-cuts the card edges along the same grain as the original cut by Topps.
He then submits the cards and is getting better than a 50% hit rate of getting them back in slabs.
Needless to say I have no interest in any cards this person has offered to me.
I also have heard a lot of grumbling from multiple sources about familiar names that are allegedy
card trimmers.
Then there was the 1955 Topps set I bought a few years back from someone on the West Coast
who is well known on Ebay. Supposedly a NM set. A whole bunch of the stars came back from PSA
assessed as trimmed (the Koufax was resubmitted to SGC after coming back from PSA without a
grade and SGC gave it an 80!).
The bottom line is that you need to know who you are dealing with, and you need to know what to
look for.
Dave
<< <i>I won't name names, but there is someone who I have dealt with who has built a trimming
machine that micro-cuts the card edges along the same grain as the original cut by Topps.
He then submits the cards and is getting better than a 50% hit rate of getting them back in slabs.
Needless to say I have no interest in any cards this person has offered to me.
I also have heard a lot of grumbling from multiple sources about familiar names that are allegedy
card trimmers.
Then there was the 1955 Topps set I bought a few years back from someone on the West Coast
who is well known on Ebay. Supposedly a NM set. A whole bunch of the stars came back from PSA
assessed as trimmed (the Koufax was resubmitted to SGC after coming back from PSA without a
grade and SGC gave it an 80!).
The bottom line is that you need to know who you are dealing with, and you need to know what to
look for. >>
Thats the problem it is not alway that easy to distinquish.I have measured up a few cards which returned as trimmed however putting them side by side they were the same size as the other cards. I do know as a fact that I sent in an entire 48 bowman set sometime back to SGC 5 cards came back trimmed and I will be dammed after looking close enough at the cards they did show evidence of very slight scraping of the edges.Couda fooled me!!!
Recently subbed a bunch of cards and the highest dollar cards, all of which looked perfect, came back trimmed or otherwise altered.
I am sure if I keep resubmitting, some might eventually get a grade, but until that time it's kind of deflating to see a card that would be worth 5-6,000.00 as a 9 come back altered.
Joe
<< <i>I won't name names, but there is someone who I have dealt with who has built a trimming
machine that micro-cuts the card edges along the same grain as the original cut by Topps.
He then submits the cards and is getting better than a 50% hit rate of getting them back in slabs.
Needless to say I have no interest in any cards this person has offered to me.
I also have heard a lot of grumbling from multiple sources about familiar names that are allegedy
card trimmers.
Then there was the 1955 Topps set I bought a few years back from someone on the West Coast
who is well known on Ebay. Supposedly a NM set. A whole bunch of the stars came back from PSA
assessed as trimmed (the Koufax was resubmitted to SGC after coming back from PSA without a
grade and SGC gave it an 80!).
The bottom line is that you need to know who you are dealing with, and you need to know what to
look for. >>
Why not name names? If they're doing it, people should know.
Tabe
Its only a problem if you collect high grade stuff...... not many trim a VG card with a wrinkle
Most PreWar stuff is far from high grade and have no reason to be trimmed, as they show wear
Some of the E card sets are found trimmed more often.... done back in the 1970s to fit into the early tobacco card size plastic pages.
And me as well. In the box of mini's I described earlier, the short cards showed one other distinct characteristic in addition to being short - the entire left edge was slightly rounded so that it looked like it was crimped. It was very subtle, and could only be seen under a good light and rotating the card slowly. A photo of the edge is below. Notice how the edge reflects the light. A sharp, 90 degree edge from the factory does not reflect the light like this.
I've measured between 50 and 100 of these cards with this slightly rounded or crimped edge, and EVERY one was short. It's funny, I never noticed it before until I started measuring cards and realizing that all my short, trimmed cards except for a couple had this edge.
BTW, I don't think the crimped/rounded edge is the cut edge because the card measures correctly horizontally. As best as I can tell, it looks like the card was pushed along this edge or clamped on this edge during the cutting process. But, I don't know for sure. I've seen this rounded left edge on some of my high grade regular 75 Topps baseball as well, so it has me concerned about the rest of my collection. Needless to say, I no longer buy cards with an edge like this.
In before the out!
<< <i> It's not a kid with a pair of scissors or a guy with an exacto knife doing this anymore. It's high tech and it's an industry.
In before the out! >>
We'll code name it... 'The Brazilian'.