WOW, does Muggyman have a (long) story to tell here. Do you remember Norman's collection find?
Muggyman
Posts: 688
For any of you who have followed the Norman collection that Muggyman acquired in January, 2011, have a read please.
I said to myself all along that I should have filmed this and made a movie about it. It would be a #1 BlockBuster in our geeky CU World.
Instead, I will just have to write my experiences. Please excuse the format and grammar, I am choosing to... just write.
Norman Gerber was my father's best and longest friend. He was at my briss, bar mitzvah, and wedding in May, 2010.
I vividly remember going to a show with him and my dad in the 80's. How do I remember? Because, my dad said that he would buy me one card that day, and I'll never forget that Pete Rose he got me in the hard case for $150. Over the last 10 years, Norman has always talked about selling his cards because they are just sitting in a closet. They have been in his self employed office in Massepequa for 30+ years. Norman collected every year from 1948. Literally, he had shoeboxes of every year, 48-55 Bowman & 52- 75 Topps. Approximately 4-5 years ago, I did go to his office and sold $500+/- bucks worth for him on ebay. I was as organized as Probstein I have a feeling is, and he gave me 15%. But, we never dug into his vintage. He wanted to get rid of the stuff that he amassed over the last years of buying.
ANYWAY, within the last year, it became apparent that Norman needed to sell his collection. His 2 kids and grandchildren have no interest in it, and c'mon it was time to sell it and let go and get what you can. Who knows how many $1,000's?
So, Norman and Muggyman spend 2-3 weeks getting the inventory together. I would help Norman sell his collection and receive 10% from him and 10% from the buyer. Norman would go thru his shoeboxes by year, one by one, and fax me the years and the numbers of every card in every shoebox. No graded anything! Again, 48-55 Bowman and '52 - 70+ Topps. I would then enter them into Beckett, I had to put in close to 100 hours. I listed everything as EX and it came out over $50,000 plus a lot lot more (sets, 70's, boxes and boxes) that we did not even calculate. We got to $30,000 as a price. it was definitely worth over $20k. We kept calculating more and more and more. $25k at least. Let's say $30,000... SOLD!!!!!!!!
I got my neighbor and very good friend to buy it (I did not have $30 large handy) and I would help him, help me sell it. I was the pro and long time collector, I thought that we can send cards into PSA and make some money. Holy Cow, look at this collection. I always made it clear to both parties that I technically represented Norman. Trust was never a factor between Cory and myself and I would take charge and embrace this and sell it all. This was a full time job that I was not ready for. Oh, Cory and I both live in small NYC apartments. Same building, wifie and me and him and girlfriend. There was no turning back. I don't want to even get into how I sold almost $20k worth of cards with the average price of $14.
Ok, story almost over...
We agreed on $30,000 but a month later as we realized that we were not even getting close to that. We had paid Norman $20k upon 1st pickup and now can no way give him anymore money. It came down to condition, and all the top cards were PSA 2's, 3's, and 4's. If 40 cards were 7's+, we could have made money. Norman knew that the sum of the parts is worth more than the whole and with PSA grading, money can be made if someone has the time. I didn't, but I did, so I did!
So now, I had to come and tell Norman that the $10,000 check he still has, he just cannot cash. We were talking frequently and he knew the disaster I/we got ourselves into. I even said, "Norman, I'm not saying that I would have come back to you with more money if we sold it for $80 grand, but it was just not worth what we paid and I grossly miscalculated." He tore up the check without a single hesitation and we continued to empty out his office (with CU member and my Mugvideo mentor, dzolot) to try and recoup whatever we could.
For the record... I am just about finished selling everything and we are going to be shy $1,000 or $2,000 from the $20k purchase price. The PSA fees were paid back and included, I'm just gonna wind up about a bit short for him. Cory was and is the man. He was with me every step of the way and never pressured me. It was more like, "whatever dude." We did recently just take some cards for ourselves, he went first and got some goodies, but nothing to write home about. Creases.org/Mug
Alright, here it is.....
Norman passed away today.
Very shortly after we cleared his office of his vintage sports card collection, he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer that had already spread to his liver. He was pretty much downhill from there, and the last I saw him was this past 1st Sunday in June. For over 50 years, at least 10 families do a fraternity picnic (TAO Brooklyn College, I think) at Eisenhower Park, the first Thursday in June. I have been to at least 30 of them. Same spot with their fraternity banner. Fried chicken at 9am, Dunkin Donuts at 9am, basketball at 11, softball at 2, BBQ all day. It was great, it was tradition, it was so much fun. I wish I did that with my friends and their families. We all knew this was Norman's last picnic. I thought he looked ok, but not really. We remained in touch talking about the cards as my parents visit him biweekly in the hospital.
I just got the sad news today and I will be going to his funeral on Friday. Yes, us Jews lay to rest quickly. I am not looking for a message board of sympathy messages here, I just wanted to say how fortunate I was to go through that collection with him and how much he enjoyed it. The timing was perfect, sad to say. He felt like a little kid growing up in the 50's and 60's with the stories that he relived. He faxed me pages and pages and pages over weeks with EVERY card as he went thru it. He loved it. I am so glad that he did. And, he was really the only one that it worked out for.
Personally, his humor and warmth and friendship will be missed. My heartfelt love goes out to his widow, Mae and family. Maybe I will show her this thread one day.
Please, it is not necessary to respond with condolences to me, maybe just take a moment to relive some of your innocent boyhood dreams and the cards that you had in your front and back pockets, or in your spokes or tied up with a rubber band. Or, your early times at shows or with your dad or brother.
I will never forget Norman and miss him very much, thank you for sharing this experience with me.
Sincerely,
David Muggyman
Norman Video 1 of 2
I said to myself all along that I should have filmed this and made a movie about it. It would be a #1 BlockBuster in our geeky CU World.
Instead, I will just have to write my experiences. Please excuse the format and grammar, I am choosing to... just write.
Norman Gerber was my father's best and longest friend. He was at my briss, bar mitzvah, and wedding in May, 2010.
I vividly remember going to a show with him and my dad in the 80's. How do I remember? Because, my dad said that he would buy me one card that day, and I'll never forget that Pete Rose he got me in the hard case for $150. Over the last 10 years, Norman has always talked about selling his cards because they are just sitting in a closet. They have been in his self employed office in Massepequa for 30+ years. Norman collected every year from 1948. Literally, he had shoeboxes of every year, 48-55 Bowman & 52- 75 Topps. Approximately 4-5 years ago, I did go to his office and sold $500+/- bucks worth for him on ebay. I was as organized as Probstein I have a feeling is, and he gave me 15%. But, we never dug into his vintage. He wanted to get rid of the stuff that he amassed over the last years of buying.
ANYWAY, within the last year, it became apparent that Norman needed to sell his collection. His 2 kids and grandchildren have no interest in it, and c'mon it was time to sell it and let go and get what you can. Who knows how many $1,000's?
So, Norman and Muggyman spend 2-3 weeks getting the inventory together. I would help Norman sell his collection and receive 10% from him and 10% from the buyer. Norman would go thru his shoeboxes by year, one by one, and fax me the years and the numbers of every card in every shoebox. No graded anything! Again, 48-55 Bowman and '52 - 70+ Topps. I would then enter them into Beckett, I had to put in close to 100 hours. I listed everything as EX and it came out over $50,000 plus a lot lot more (sets, 70's, boxes and boxes) that we did not even calculate. We got to $30,000 as a price. it was definitely worth over $20k. We kept calculating more and more and more. $25k at least. Let's say $30,000... SOLD!!!!!!!!
I got my neighbor and very good friend to buy it (I did not have $30 large handy) and I would help him, help me sell it. I was the pro and long time collector, I thought that we can send cards into PSA and make some money. Holy Cow, look at this collection. I always made it clear to both parties that I technically represented Norman. Trust was never a factor between Cory and myself and I would take charge and embrace this and sell it all. This was a full time job that I was not ready for. Oh, Cory and I both live in small NYC apartments. Same building, wifie and me and him and girlfriend. There was no turning back. I don't want to even get into how I sold almost $20k worth of cards with the average price of $14.
Ok, story almost over...
We agreed on $30,000 but a month later as we realized that we were not even getting close to that. We had paid Norman $20k upon 1st pickup and now can no way give him anymore money. It came down to condition, and all the top cards were PSA 2's, 3's, and 4's. If 40 cards were 7's+, we could have made money. Norman knew that the sum of the parts is worth more than the whole and with PSA grading, money can be made if someone has the time. I didn't, but I did, so I did!
So now, I had to come and tell Norman that the $10,000 check he still has, he just cannot cash. We were talking frequently and he knew the disaster I/we got ourselves into. I even said, "Norman, I'm not saying that I would have come back to you with more money if we sold it for $80 grand, but it was just not worth what we paid and I grossly miscalculated." He tore up the check without a single hesitation and we continued to empty out his office (with CU member and my Mugvideo mentor, dzolot) to try and recoup whatever we could.
For the record... I am just about finished selling everything and we are going to be shy $1,000 or $2,000 from the $20k purchase price. The PSA fees were paid back and included, I'm just gonna wind up about a bit short for him. Cory was and is the man. He was with me every step of the way and never pressured me. It was more like, "whatever dude." We did recently just take some cards for ourselves, he went first and got some goodies, but nothing to write home about. Creases.org/Mug
Alright, here it is.....
Norman passed away today.
Very shortly after we cleared his office of his vintage sports card collection, he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer that had already spread to his liver. He was pretty much downhill from there, and the last I saw him was this past 1st Sunday in June. For over 50 years, at least 10 families do a fraternity picnic (TAO Brooklyn College, I think) at Eisenhower Park, the first Thursday in June. I have been to at least 30 of them. Same spot with their fraternity banner. Fried chicken at 9am, Dunkin Donuts at 9am, basketball at 11, softball at 2, BBQ all day. It was great, it was tradition, it was so much fun. I wish I did that with my friends and their families. We all knew this was Norman's last picnic. I thought he looked ok, but not really. We remained in touch talking about the cards as my parents visit him biweekly in the hospital.
I just got the sad news today and I will be going to his funeral on Friday. Yes, us Jews lay to rest quickly. I am not looking for a message board of sympathy messages here, I just wanted to say how fortunate I was to go through that collection with him and how much he enjoyed it. The timing was perfect, sad to say. He felt like a little kid growing up in the 50's and 60's with the stories that he relived. He faxed me pages and pages and pages over weeks with EVERY card as he went thru it. He loved it. I am so glad that he did. And, he was really the only one that it worked out for.
Personally, his humor and warmth and friendship will be missed. My heartfelt love goes out to his widow, Mae and family. Maybe I will show her this thread one day.
Please, it is not necessary to respond with condolences to me, maybe just take a moment to relive some of your innocent boyhood dreams and the cards that you had in your front and back pockets, or in your spokes or tied up with a rubber band. Or, your early times at shows or with your dad or brother.
I will never forget Norman and miss him very much, thank you for sharing this experience with me.
Sincerely,
David Muggyman
Norman Video 1 of 2
0
Comments
best wishes
Bob
I am very fortunate that all off my greatest collecting memories are in conjuction with fellow baord member Bporter26. I wouldnt trade those days back when I was in school and collecting with Bobby for all the money in the world. We make new memories every year when we atend the National together as adults! Its what I cherish most about collecting.
Bosox1976
mike
------
stupid print dots
You can't replace those and at the end of the day it's just cardboard. Thanks for sharing.
RIP Norman and his collection...
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
I wish i would have picked up a little something from him.
Here's to Norman.
Since you are asking about sharing stories, I remember coming home off the bus after my birthday at school with a box of left over cupcakes my mom had baked for the class and trading them to my buddies for a bunch of beat up 1974 Baseball cards. Those cupcakes didn't last more than 15 minutes, but I still have some of those 74 cards.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
Mike
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
1935 National Chicle
1961 Golden Press
1962 Bell Brand Dodgers
Top 200 cards in the hobby
Top 250 cards in the hobby
All time lakers
All time Dodgers
1957 Disney Characters
1965 Donruss Disneyland
1966 Get Smart
Brian
boxcars for Norman.
Long summer days, playing ball in the street, buying packs of baseball cards when the ice cream truck came around. Pure innocence and joy.
"Molon Labe"
http://www.youtube.com/user/dzolot
Thanks for watching. Hope you enjoyed!!
- I would encourage all collectors to post a video of their collection - I have found it to be a very rewarding way to share my sports cards!!
Rip Norman.
It is things like this that make us some much more than just a forum....it makes us a community.
1974: PSA 8 +
1975-1979: PSA 9+
Spirit - Jewish (....a song dedicated to Norman!)
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
It sounds like Norman was a great guy who enjoyed his collection to the end.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
As always you bring passion and honesty to the forefront. The relationship always comes before the cards, but it is too bad that the collection didn't hold more high grade vintage.
-Nathanael
You're a standup guy!
Sad about Norman.
Thanx for sharing the story.