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1878 S proof like Morgan Silver Dollar
Addictedtocoins
Posts: 311 ✭✭✭
Can someone please post a picture of a 1878 S Proof Like Morgan Please.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
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Comments
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-Paul
<< <i>Those are some beautiful coins! What keeps them from being graded a proof coin? >>
They were not struck as proof. Proof dies and planchets are prepared different than business strike morgans.
<< <i>Proof refers to a method of manufacture, not a grade. >>
This is the key issue.
The proof manufacturing process involves special attention being given to the preparation of the planchets and dies as well as striking the coins under higher pressure and/or striking the coin multiple times.
and
Proof dies were generally not used after striking proof coins for collectors. But not always. Several gold coin dates, for instance, are known or believed to have been struck with proof dies. I would not be surprised if there were other denominations as well.
and the coin discussed in this thread: LINK which may be the same coin.
It appears to have the fabric of a branch mint proof and was struck from one of the first long nock die pairs sent to the San Francisco Mint in April 1878. However, the coin shown in Coinfacts is graded MS65PL meaning that PCGS graded it as a business strike. I suspect that it technically is a business strick but may have been a presentation piece given the history related in the thread linedd above, though there were other first strike coins that were engraved with a legend, one of which was owned by Eliasberg. See this thread where Andy Lustig mentions that it was cataloged as a BMP. LINK. Oddly, the engraved coin discussed in this thread shows die clashing not evident in the toned PL piece.
Bowers' book states that the director of the SF Mint was displeased with the condition of the first die pairs that arrived from Philadelphia, but that apparantly did not prevent them from making some presentation pieces.
CG
<< <i>Business strike dies are different from proof dies(usually). With Morgans, brand new fresh business strike dies created coins with Deep Mirror Prooflike surfaces for maybe the first few hundred that were struck. As they were used, the DMPL characteristics "wore down" to the point of just being Prooflike... then semi-prooflike and finally just "regular".
Proof dies were generally not used after striking proof coins for collectors. But not always. Several gold coin dates, for instance, are known or believed to have been struck with proof dies. I would not be surprised if there were other denominations as well. >>
Washington quarters were also known to have been struck by proof reverse dies in the case of the Type B's from the mid 1950's and I believe the whole wide AM lincolns came from proof reverse dies being used to strike business strikes so that's just a few other series where this is known to have happened.
Thanks everyone!
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Or you could use the one direct from coinfacts by using /small/ instead of /large/
<< <i>DennisH. Did this happen to the 1904 liberty head 20 dollar gold coin ? >>
I think it was more common with the $1 coins, many of which had tiny mintages to begin with. But I'm not a gold guy at all; there are experts on this forum in that area who should be able to quote chapter and verse about gold proof die usage for business strikes.
In both of those cases proof artwork dies could have been made and put in use without polishing. They might have been rejected by QC for proofs and diverted for regular production, espcially in the case of quarters.
The wide AM is not so much a special proof artwork, but is a previous production model with higher relief.
<< <i>Does anyone know if there is a link that shows a proof 1878 S Morgan. I guess I'm not understanding why with the 1878 S Morgan Dollar there are so many PL and DMPL. >>
They never made a proof Morgan with a mint mark, maybe that is were your getting off track?
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it is or at least should be. Business strike would be my WAG and not a BMP.
bob
Edited to add VAM 58
<< <i>They never made a proof Morgan with a mint mark, maybe that is were your getting off track? >>
Except 1879-O; 1883-O; 1893-CC; 1921-S (Zerbe and Chapman). The Amon Carter 1887-O was graded as a Specimen by NGC. An 1895-O just sold at the ANA. There are some claims to BMP or Specimen strikes for other dates as well.
CG
<< <i>
<< <i>They never made a proof Morgan with a mint mark, maybe that is were your getting off track? >>
Except 1879-O; 1883-O; 1893-CC; 1921-S (Zerbe and Chapman). The Amon Carter 1887-O was graded as a Specimen by NGC. An 1895-O just sold at the ANA. There are some claims to BMP or Specimen strikes for other dates as well.
CG >>
Add 1884-CC to the list as a specimen
It was an 1878-S, and while it was technically a "super-slider" AU58, it was a very nice prooflike coin. (Not as cameoed as the ones pictured in preceding posts, but definitely PL, I would say.)
I held onto it for 22 years and then passed it on to my sister, to hold for my firstborn nephew. He's now old enough to appreciate coins, and is a casual collector.
But I don't have pictures of it. And the ones above are better, anyway. I just thought it was neat that the "heirloom" piece from my family was so nice. Most people's grandparents passed down worn pocket pieces and such.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.