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My thoughts/experience at the National

judgebuckjudgebuck Posts: 996 ✭✭✭
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
I attended Thursday-Sunday. It appeared to me that the number of dealers and number of attendees were down. Chicago may have run its course as a site. Here are some other thoughts (JMO):

1. Prices for vintage cards are much higher there than on eBay.

2. Many more raw cards than I anticipated. Many dealers sell primarily raw.

3. The big money in the sportcards/memorabilia business is being made by the grading companies and the auction companies.

4. The biggest crowds were at the Topps booth. Never did know what was going on there and why there were long lines of people.

5. I suspect much autograph forgery/fraud. I guess that the feds have much more serious business to attend to than busting autograph forgers. But, they did haul some dealer out in handcuffs on Thursday.

Always looking for Mantle cards such as Stahl Meyer, 1954 Dan Dee, 1959 Bazooka, 1960 Post, 1952 Star Cal Decal, 1952 Tip Top Bread Labels, 1953-54 Briggs Meat, and other Topps, Bowman, and oddball Mantles.

Comments

  • RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
    I don't know what attendance was, but it was my understanding that dealers were capped at 500.
    Ron Burgundy

    Buying Vintage, all sports.
    Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
  • judgebuckjudgebuck Posts: 996 ✭✭✭
    I felt sorry for the dealers at the back. The traffic was light in that area. I also heard the number of dealers had been capped.

    Also, I heard a customer comment that he felt some of the vintage card dealers were treating their cards as "museum pieces" rather than trying to sell them.

    Always looking for Mantle cards such as Stahl Meyer, 1954 Dan Dee, 1959 Bazooka, 1960 Post, 1952 Star Cal Decal, 1952 Tip Top Bread Labels, 1953-54 Briggs Meat, and other Topps, Bowman, and oddball Mantles.

  • fiveninerfiveniner Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭
    I attended Wed and Thursday.There was grumbling among some dealers that traffic was slow and also heard that there were less dealers this years which to me seemed like an accurate statement for sure.
    I also agree with judgebuck 100%.
    Tony(AN ANGEL WATCHES OVER ME)
  • leadoff4leadoff4 Posts: 2,392 ✭
    I was expecting more dealers as well. I still think Chicago is a great venue for the National though.
  • RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
    On Saturday you could barely move in one of the back corners due to the traffic. PSA set a record for items submitted. Beckett had a 3 day backup starting on Thursday & their employees were working from 8am to Midnight.

    Given the economy, I thought the energy at the show was the best I'd seen since 2007.
    Ron Burgundy

    Buying Vintage, all sports.
    Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
  • mrmint23mrmint23 Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭
    Beckett's backup was due to their slabbing machine breaking on Thursday....Chicago was ok but Baltimore is AWESOME...everything is within walking distance from the Convention Center to Camden Yard to the tram to the airport. Public transportation in Chicago is terrible.
  • leadoff4leadoff4 Posts: 2,392 ✭
    For me, Chicago is much more appealing as far as the family tagging along. Many more tourist draws to Chicago than Baltimore or Cleveland. Also, there are two MLB teams in Chicago so your chances of catching a home game double.
  • fur72fur72 Posts: 2,348 ✭✭


    << <i>Also, I heard a customer comment that he felt some of the vintage card dealers were treating their cards as "museum pieces" rather than trying to sell them. >>



    I see this alot at card shows. I was after a decent shape 1966 Mantle at the 2005 National and quite a few dealers didnt want to sell even though they had it in the display case. Kinda weird.

    The crowd you saw at the Topps booth was for wrapper redemptions. Rip packs at the booth and get a certain pack or card created for the national. I usually do this but I hate standing in line so I skipped it. Last year the big draw was Strasburg on a heritage card. Not sure what the big fish was this year.
    Cory @iamfur72 https://twitter.com/iamfur72

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  • kingnascarkingnascar Posts: 636 ✭✭✭
    Every dealer that I asked "How was your show?" told me that they either had a great show or they had their best show ever. I heard nothing negative.

    From what I heard, PSA had their best show ever as well. Every time I went to their booth, they were packed.

    Saw lots of raw vintage cards. If you had the time, I think there were bargains to be found, especially if you wanted to get raw cards graded.

    I love Chicago, but I do like being able to walk to more attractions in Baltimore.

    Logan

    Kingnascar's PSA Sets
    Kingnascar's PSADNA Sets
  • MorgothMorgoth Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Every dealer that I asked "How was your show?" told me that they either had a great show or they had their best show ever. I heard nothing negative.

    From what I heard, PSA had their best show ever as well. Every time I went to their booth, they were packed.

    Saw lots of raw vintage cards. If you had the time, I think there were bargains to be found, especially if you wanted to get raw cards graded.

    I love Chicago, but I do like being able to walk to more attractions in Baltimore.

    Logan >>



    Its funny a dealer friend of mine said that if they heard a dealer talk to a collector they would say it was their best show but when he asked the same dealer the question the answer was much different. I would say most dealers were unhappy with the turn out for the show. It didn't feel big to me as I go to all the shows in Rosemont and this one felt small for National.

    However I disagree on the vintage pricing. I found 3 deals under ebay pricing and didn't really try all that hard.
    Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
  • divecchiadivecchia Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I liked the show in Rosemont, but without a car family friendly it is not. There is not much to do in the area. The wife and I took a train for 45 minutes to get to Chicago and see some of the sites.

    Baltimore on the other hand had a good show and is very family fiendly without having a car. Camden Yards, Aquarium, waterfront and many other attractions all within walking distance.

    Show was not that crowded and dealers said the show was OK, but I only went on Wed-Fri. I imagine Saturday would have been their busy day. PSA was busy all the time.

    Donato
    Hobbyist & Collector (not an investor).
    Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set

    Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
  • basketballcollectorbasketballcollector Posts: 336 ✭✭✭
    Many of the dealers that I spoke to said the show was terrible. A few said average at best. No one said good or great.
  • RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
    It's all about attitude. I find that most dealers who gripe & complain are the same ones with a bad attitude about a lot of other things.
    Ron Burgundy

    Buying Vintage, all sports.
    Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
  • miconelegacymiconelegacy Posts: 3,052 ✭
    PSA's booth was constantly packed every day I was there. There set up seemed at least double the size of Beckett's. I was told PSA had over 30 employees there. Also found out they are grading an average of 100,000 cards, and 30,000 Autographs per month! Big numbers in a down economy...
    Miconelegacy Auctions
    "Live everyday, don't throw it away"
  • r00kies101r00kies101 Posts: 263 ✭✭


    << <i>PSA's booth was constantly packed every day I was there. There set up seemed at least double the size of Beckett's. I was told PSA had over 30 employees there. Also found out they are grading an average of 100,000 cards, and 30,000 Autographs per month! Big numbers in a down economy... >>



    Wow, that is a lot of cards. I'm curious to know of the 100K, what the vintage (pre-1970)/modern breakdown is.

    If I had to take a wild guess, I would say 25/75
  • arexarex Posts: 999 ✭


    << <i>I liked the show in Rosemont, but without a car family friendly it is not. There is not much to do in the area. The wife and I took a train for 45 minutes to get to Chicago and see some of the sites.

    Baltimore on the other hand had a good show and is very family fiendly without having a car. Camden Yards, Aquarium, waterfront and many other attractions all within walking distance.

    Show was not that crowded and dealers said the show was OK, but I only went on Wed-Fri. I imagine Saturday would have been their busy day. PSA was busy all the time.

    Donato >>


    Having been to large comic shows at both Chicago and Baltimore i must say Baltimore is a much more family friendly town. Inner Harbor, parking, just lots more options.
    Of course, nobody has anything on Chicago Metro. Just the loudest train cars in existence lol
  • bigred1bigred1 Posts: 667
    Did not go Chicago, but live 20 minutes from Camden yard. Speaking as someone who lives here, you are only a half hour from Washington DC as well, plenty to see there, which I would think would makes it that much more family friendly and also give you 2 mlb teams, and many more options for things to do outside of show. Cant wait for next years show.

  • DboneesqDboneesq Posts: 18,220 ✭✭
    Also hope to see you guys at the National next year.
    STAY HEALTHY!

    Doug

    Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
  • otwcardsotwcards Posts: 5,291 ✭✭✭
    It was an interesting National. There were bargains to be found, but it took far more work than it has in the past. Many dealers that had graded cards that had a potential to bump typically wanted the "bump" price leaving no room for purchase. There was a nice selection of vintage raw cards, but purchasing them is becoming more and more a minefield that needs to be negotiated carefully. I stopped counting the amount of vintage cards that were trimmed or altered. Granted, there was plenty of fresh, legitimate material, but there were a few dealers that had a bevy of "dirty" material.

    The traffic, as a whole, seemed to be down a bit from past Chi-town Nationals, but there seemed to be plenty of transactions. There were even some dealer sales to the public that allowed for profitable flips in the room.

    Looking forward to Baltimore and hoping the traffic there is better than last year, which was the softest National since Atlanta. At least there's plenty to do in B-more after the show (and a great breakfast stop a few blocks away before the show).
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