Dilemma Local Hobby Shop vs. Online retailer
fur72
Posts: 2,348 ✭✭
I have been having a dilemma over the past couple years. My local card dealer’s prices are well above online prices. I know he doesn’t deal in the quantity the big guys do but last week was kind of a head shaker.
First off I wanted 2011 Topps Lineage right off the bat (this past Thursday). But since my local dealer buys Topps cases with another dealer that lives 2 hours away the cases come a day later. In the case of Lineage he didn’t get them until today since his counter part was at the National all weekend.
So when I knew I wasn’t going to get Lineage last week I figured I would get something to hold me over (I needed 5,000 count boxes so I had to go to the shop anyway). I check online to see was what reasonable and decided to get Topps series 2. Online the price is $46 for a hobby box $84 for a jumbo.
I get to my local dealers shop and he is asking $75 for a hobby box and $110 for a jumbo. I ended up getting Bowman Platinum for $95 which I though was reasonable but more than I wanted to spend.
I have been buying from this guy since I was a teenager. The question is should I keep buying from this guy who is always $10 - $20 over online prices just to support the shop? Or take my money and purchase online. I know shipping comes into play but I always order enough to get free shipping.
Thoughts?
First off I wanted 2011 Topps Lineage right off the bat (this past Thursday). But since my local dealer buys Topps cases with another dealer that lives 2 hours away the cases come a day later. In the case of Lineage he didn’t get them until today since his counter part was at the National all weekend.
So when I knew I wasn’t going to get Lineage last week I figured I would get something to hold me over (I needed 5,000 count boxes so I had to go to the shop anyway). I check online to see was what reasonable and decided to get Topps series 2. Online the price is $46 for a hobby box $84 for a jumbo.
I get to my local dealers shop and he is asking $75 for a hobby box and $110 for a jumbo. I ended up getting Bowman Platinum for $95 which I though was reasonable but more than I wanted to spend.
I have been buying from this guy since I was a teenager. The question is should I keep buying from this guy who is always $10 - $20 over online prices just to support the shop? Or take my money and purchase online. I know shipping comes into play but I always order enough to get free shipping.
Thoughts?
0
Comments
He did say if I bought 4 I could get them for $90 but I bet if I showed up at his shop without asking it would be $110 straight. He is a nice guy but like Joel said its hard to throw money down the toilet.
I'll get these boxes and and call it quits with the exception of the occasional impulse hobby box / pack rip.
My Sandberg topps basic set
My Sandberg Topps Master set
<< <i>I have been having a dilemma over the past couple years. My local card dealer’s prices are well above online prices. I know he doesn’t deal in the quantity the big guys do but last week was kind of a head shaker.
First off I wanted 2011 Topps Lineage right off the bat (this past Thursday). But since my local dealer buys Topps cases with another dealer that lives 2 hours away the cases come a day later. In the case of Lineage he didn’t get them until today since his counter part was at the National all weekend.
So when I knew I wasn’t going to get Lineage last week I figured I would get something to hold me over (I needed 5,000 count boxes so I had to go to the shop anyway). I check online to see was what reasonable and decided to get Topps series 2. Online the price is $46 for a hobby box $84 for a jumbo.
I get to my local dealers shop and he is asking $75 for a hobby box and $110 for a jumbo. I ended up getting Bowman Platinum for $95 which I though was reasonable but more than I wanted to spend.
I have been buying from this guy since I was a teenager. The question is should I keep buying from this guy who is always $10 - $20 over online prices just to support the shop? Or take my money and purchase online. I know shipping comes into play but I always order enough to get free shipping.
Thoughts? >>
The bigger question is, why is this even a question? If you're not related to the guy, then why do you feel a responsibility to support his expensive product line and ultimately his retirement? If you're that conflicted, just cut him a check every month for $100 - whether or not you get anything in return. That way, your moral dilemma is solved!
My Sandberg topps basic set
My Sandberg Topps Master set
Plus if you go to decent sized card show, there is always a supply guy with a table. WalMart sells penny sleeves for $1 per 100.
Like a previous poster said, the answer to your question is obvious.
It's not collectibles (pet industry) but there're similarities.
When online ordering/large stores (Walmart, PetSmart, Petco) opened we had to take a serious look at how we were going to continue operating our business.
Items such as aquarium filters, for example, I would guess are similar to boxes of cards.
We know what they go for online, and at the larger shops, but it's not really in our best interest to have an $80 filter sit on the shelf for any amount of time for only a $10 profit (if that). Many times it's not even worth special ordering such products in the event that it gets stolen or damaged from/in the shop.
We would never expect a customer to purchase items like this from us...but we do carry the filter cartridges that go into them and need to be changes ever 4-6 weeks. If a customer comes to our shop they will pay $1-2 more, depending on the cartridge. They know this but choose to shop with us, mainly because we have had to adjust our business from "the" pet shop to a "convenience pet store" -- if you had the craving for Frosted Flakes at 2 AM, you're going to buy a smaller box from the gas station for more than a grocery store...if there isn't a 24 hour one near you.
Our markup on smaller items has increased from approximately X1.85-2.0 from 1987-2002 to X3.5-4.5 2002-current. The adjustment is to maximize profit on each item sold since there're aren't as many items being sold.
Buying a box of cards online does the shop owner good if you go there for supplies to store the cards.
When Walmart, Petco, PetSmart sells an aquarium, it does the hobby as a whole good as new people get into it and start coming to our shop for fish, supplies, et cetera.
If the price difference is significant (ie 20% or more) I wouldnt have a problem ordering online, but if the price difference is less, in most cases, the comfort of knowing someone local might be able to fix the problem is worth the price difference. Plus, most online retailers do NOT pay taxes in your city, county or state, so when you think about money staying local, it helps everyone in the community, including you, who wont have your taxes raised when tax revenue decreased do to less sales locally
<< <i>Online v Local is a dilemma in every business. I have owned an awards store locally along with my family for nearly 42 years. Online retailers have been significantly competitive with my prices but has yet to beat them in most areas. Where you get the difference is not when things go right, its when things go wrong. Although many orders in my business are time sensitive, almost once a month I have someone who ordered something online, the order wasnt right and they were SOL when they came to me to fix the problem because I couldnt do it in time.
If the price difference is significant (ie 20% or more) I wouldnt have a problem ordering online, but if the price difference is less, in most cases, the comfort of knowing someone local might be able to fix the problem is worth the price difference. Plus, most online retailers do NOT pay taxes in your city, county or state, so when you think about money staying local, it helps everyone in the community, including you, who wont have your taxes raised when tax revenue decreased do to less sales locally >>
Last October, I ordered 116 soccer trophies for our local rec league from my living room couch on a Sunday evening from an on-line source. They were in my hands the following Thursday. Each one personalized. Total cost: $370 delivered. Shipping alone had to run $50-75 for these trophies. Each one was individually wrapped in bubble wrap. These were not junk trophies either. The cheapest trophy at my local awards place in this quantity was over $5 and it was not nearly as nice, plus it would have taken longer to get done. I honestly don't understand how the on-line place does it.
Ironically, in the past I had ordered from the local place probably half a dozen times, each time 8-10 trophies totaling $80 or so. I remember almost feeling guilty that these people were helping me out (spending time designing the trophy, etc) for a measly $80 gross. It almost seemed to me that the local place could simply take the order, place the order with the on-line place at a $3-$5 markup per trophy, and be ahead of the game with far less work.
Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing the local place. It just seems nearly impossible for any small business to compete with on-line these days. Price aside, the on-line place had more selection and was much more convenient for me as a buyer.
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Last October, I ordered 116 soccer trophies for our local rec league from my living room couch on a Sunday evening from an on-line source. They were in my hands the following Thursday. Each one personalized. Total cost: $370 delivered. Shipping alone had to run $50-75 for these trophies. Each one was individually wrapped in bubble wrap. These were not junk trophies either. The cheapest trophy at my local awards place in this quantity was over $5 and it was not nearly as nice, plus it would have taken longer to get done. I honestly don't understand how the on-line place does it.
Ironically, in the past I had ordered from the local place probably half a dozen times, each time 8-10 trophies totaling $80 or so. I remember almost feeling guilty that these people were helping me out (spending time designing the trophy, etc) for a measly $80 gross. It almost seemed to me that the local place could simply take the order, place the order with the on-line place at a $3-$5 markup per trophy, and be ahead of the game with far less work.
Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing the local place. It just seems nearly impossible for any small business to compete with on-line these days. Price aside, the on-line place had more selection and was much more convenient for me as a buyer. >>
Since I dont know the online place you bought from or what you bought, I cannot comment on the actual item. I do know that the larger online retailers (Trophy Depot/Ad Trophy/Crown Awards) in most cases do not come close to my prices and many other dealers. They advertise "guaranteed" but when actually challenged on that, they admit they do not do guarantee against local dealers, only other online compaies.
Would be curious to see a photo of the trophy and where it came from. For $3.40, it either had to be a figure on base or a small resin. PM me if you want, maybe I can save you more money next time.
<< <i>I dumped my LCS in February when he wanted to charge me his "replacement" price for Heritage even though he preordered that specific case early just for me. I spent close to 20gs a year there since 2007 when I got back into the hobby. His prices kept getting higher and higher when i could go to the next town over and save between 10 and 30 bucks a box. The Heritage fiasco was what finally pushed me over the edge with him. Haven't been back since nor has he even bothered to call me and ask why. >>
LOL true story.....I myself use the same LCS and have gone from spending $3-5K a year there to maybe $50/mo
I was in there a couple of weeks ago and the owner's wife asked me if I had seen Mike (zep) and I told her here and there. They have no clue why Mike does not come in there anymore.
The clincher for me was 2011 Bowman. He got 2 or 3 cases of Jumbos and 2 cases of Regular.
I asked for a price on 1 Jumbo box and he quoted me the going rate even though he could have sold me 1 box from his direct case at MSRP and made his desired markup on the Box. Instead of the $120 he quoted me $200.
That $80 cost him a couple of thousane from me.
I still go in there and talk and buy some supplies when needed and a pack or 2 but will never buy boxes again.
I would not pay 22% more for the $90 box taking it to $110. It just makes it harder that your investment pans out.
My advice would be to simply tell him your delimma and see how he responds. He may want to keep your other business such as boxes, magazines, card savers etc. and work a better price for you. If not then you realize he does not value your business as much as you value him being there.
I found out quickly that they are buying cases etc for the same price I can, and from the same wholesalers/dealers. I now call and see if they will match my price or what I can find. If so I'll still buy from them.
I agree with supporting your community, but if I'm trying to make money I have to go the least expensive way. Not personal just business.
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
<< <i>yea dang them rising electric bills they have and jeepers who can forget the rental of the store and if they have employee's, then crap, i guess they are over charging to much,,, its exactly how walnut got as big as they have, a dollar profit is all they needed, back when i was trucking everyone of the owner drivers complained about j.b. hunt and schneider trucking co.'s, they undercut everyone out there and it drove the little guy out,, my local hardware store is hanging on by a thread because of the big guys and im guilty of buying there as well, scroo the little guy,, lolol,, just saying,, sit at home place your order online, wait for the ups truck to arrive, get ur carcass up to answer the door , get the box,, rip the packs,, sell the cards online,, collect ur money,, now thats the life style we should all shoot for,, lolol,, jeepers,, throw them a bone once and a while and maybe just maybe they wont be one of many of the little guys that goes out of business,, good day,,,j >>
Well said
<< <i>yea dang them rising electric bills they have and jeepers who can forget the rental of the store and if they have employee's, then crap, i guess they are over charging to much,,, its exactly how walnut got as big as they have, a dollar profit is all they needed, back when i was trucking everyone of the owner drivers complained about j.b. hunt and schneider trucking co.'s, they undercut everyone out there and it drove the little guy out,, my local hardware store is hanging on by a thread because of the big guys and im guilty of buying there as well, scroo the little guy,, lolol,, just saying,, sit at home place your order online, wait for the ups truck to arrive, get ur carcass up to answer the door , get the box,, rip the packs,, sell the cards online,, collect ur money,, now thats the life style we should all shoot for,, lolol,, jeepers,, throw them a bone once and a while and maybe just maybe they wont be one of many of the little guys that goes out of business,, good day,,,j >>
Why is the "little guy" immune from economic reality? All of the working stiffs out there would lose their jobs if the value of their work became less than the wages they are being paid.
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<< <i>I dumped my LCS in February when he wanted to charge me his "replacement" price for Heritage even though he preordered that specific case early just for me. I spent close to 20gs a year there since 2007 when I got back into the hobby. His prices kept getting higher and higher when i could go to the next town over and save between 10 and 30 bucks a box. The Heritage fiasco was what finally pushed me over the edge with him. Haven't been back since nor has he even bothered to call me and ask why. >>
LOL true story.....I myself use the same LCS and have gone from spending $3-5K a year there to maybe $50/mo
I was in there a couple of weeks ago and the owner's wife asked me if I had seen Mike (zep) and I told her here and there. They have no clue why Mike does not come in there anymore.
The clincher for me was 2011 Bowman. He got 2 or 3 cases of Jumbos and 2 cases of Regular.
I asked for a price on 1 Jumbo box and he quoted me the going rate even though he could have sold me 1 box from his direct case at MSRP and made his desired markup on the Box. Instead of the $120 he quoted me $200.
That $80 cost him a couple of thousane from me.
I still go in there and talk and buy some supplies when needed and a pack or 2 but will never buy boxes again. >>
It's about profit..."I've spent thousands of dollars there" means nothing when the profit's a tiny fraction of that (like $50 out of the "thousands").
Imagine how much money the business owner has to invest in the product and look at what his return in...
If one, and I mean one box gets damaged or stolen, he loses money on the entire case/product.
Now, does this mean you should buy the box from him for more than you can get it online for? Naw. Get it online. There's really nothing wrong with that.
Just don't think that your "thousands" are putting food on the persons table, 'cause, when they move a product like that (box of cards) and make maybe $5 on it (Investing about 20X that into the one box alone) it becomes more of a liability to sell you that box than what it's worth.
The real question here should be whether or not local card shops still have a place in the hobby anymore. Do the other services provided by your local card shop make up for the price difference? If every local card shop suddenly closed, would anything change in the hobby? How much would the lost sales (there would have to be some loss) affect the card manufacturers?
Either way, I don't think the average local card shop owner is a bad guy trying to gouge customers. I also don't think customers are doing anything wrong by spending online to save money. The result just might mean the end of local card shops.
But if a customer just has to have an item that day...'oops I ran out of cardsavers,' or 'dang, I really want that box tonight' then you're paying a premium for the convenience.
The best way to handle card shops is to go in and buy your storage items from them...pick up a few packs of cards...maybe a box if it's priced well...and don't haggle with the prices on these items....my goodness it's so insulting.
If they have some nice raw items in their display case...make a few offers, but respect the markup on the other stuff.
<< <i>I think thats the reason that you see so many local card stores, WITHIN another business. I have a small display (Three showcases), a table of some 5000 ct minor stars boxes and a 6 level shelf full of supplies. It doesnt cost me a dime to have those in there, since my business in card is about 1/2% my sales in the rest of the business. Thats going to be the future of card shops though, very few stand alone ones will be out there >>
You're absolutely right.
My father also sells rc hobbies within his pet shop.
With the high ticket price of the items, competition of online markets along with all other business expenses (rent, et al) it's darn near impossible to keep open an rc hobby shop alone.
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<< <i>yea dang them rising electric bills they have and jeepers who can forget the rental of the store and if they have employee's, then crap, i guess they are over charging to much,,, its exactly how walnut got as big as they have, a dollar profit is all they needed, back when i was trucking everyone of the owner drivers complained about j.b. hunt and schneider trucking co.'s, they undercut everyone out there and it drove the little guy out,, my local hardware store is hanging on by a thread because of the big guys and im guilty of buying there as well, scroo the little guy,, lolol,, just saying,, sit at home place your order online, wait for the ups truck to arrive, get ur carcass up to answer the door , get the box,, rip the packs,, sell the cards online,, collect ur money,, now thats the life style we should all shoot for,, lolol,, jeepers,, throw them a bone once and a while and maybe just maybe they wont be one of many of the little guys that goes out of business,, good day,,,j >>
Why is the "little guy" immune from economic reality? All of the working stiffs out there would lose their jobs if the value of their work became less than the wages they are being paid. >>
The fact that people are so cheap and only really look at price is why we don't really make much of anything in this country anymore. Yeah, it's nice to get a good deal, but at this rate most people won't be able to afford even walmart's prices because they'll be working there.
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The fact that people are so cheap and only really look at price is why we don't really make much of anything in this country anymore. Yeah, it's nice to get a good deal, but at this rate most people won't be able to afford even walmart's prices because they'll be working there. >>
I grew up near the city of Detroit, so I understand the point some of the posters have regarding local business. It would be great if the hobby returned to how it was in the early-mid 1980's. However I am cynical about the local rah rah when I see first hand what happened to the domestic car companies or when I see UAW workers shopping at WalMart.
The customers voted with their dollars and the domestics were forced to change, including sourcing more parts from low cost countries. You can wish people would do the "right" thing, but for the most part everyone acts in their own self-interest. In this recession, I do what I can to afford a few luxuries. No one needs cards to survive and there is no need for local card shops. I wish there were more but someone will have to come up with a better business model to make it work.
<< <i>
<< <i>I dumped my LCS in February when he wanted to charge me his "replacement" price for Heritage even though he preordered that specific case early just for me. I spent close to 20gs a year there since 2007 when I got back into the hobby. His prices kept getting higher and higher when i could go to the next town over and save between 10 and 30 bucks a box. The Heritage fiasco was what finally pushed me over the edge with him. Haven't been back since nor has he even bothered to call me and ask why. >>
LOL true story.....I myself use the same LCS and have gone from spending $3-5K a year there to maybe $50/mo
I was in there a couple of weeks ago and the owner's wife asked me if I had seen Mike (zep) and I told her here and there. They have no clue why Mike does not come in there anymore.
The clincher for me was 2011 Bowman. He got 2 or 3 cases of Jumbos and 2 cases of Regular.
I asked for a price on 1 Jumbo box and he quoted me the going rate even though he could have sold me 1 box from his direct case at MSRP and made his desired markup on the Box. Instead of the $120 he quoted me $200.
That $80 cost him a couple of thousane from me.
I still go in there and talk and buy some supplies when needed and a pack or 2 but will never buy boxes again. >>
However, as for the topic of supporting your local shop, I say that if you can afford it (meaning, if you are spending thousands per month on cardboard), then spend the extra few bucks and quit complaining. There is a value to convenience.