Options
Will somebody please have the decency to slab these things?
MrEureka
Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
This image in the latest issue of the E-Sylum. Coins are in the upcoming Baldwins sale in January.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
0
Comments
I don't know. It looks like a few may have been cleaned.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>They are stunning as is.
I don't know. It looks like a few may have been cleaned. >>
Almost ALL (like 99+%) ancient coins have been cleaned at some point during the last couple of thousand years (or maybe just a thousand years).
And many are tooled. And many have had their surfaces smoothed.
Ancient coins cannot be graded as simplistically as modern coins. Check out the grading parameters ATS for an example of a multi-factor approach to grading ancients. Some of that multi-factor approach would also apply to modern coins, if anyone would use it.
Single-number grading just doesn't work for serious coins anyway.
But I agree with you - they should be slabbed. For the protection of the coin.
<< <i>Some of that multi-factor approach would also apply to modern coins, if anyone would use it.
Single-number grading just doesn't work for serious coins anyway.
>>
I couldn't agree with you more.
Mmmmm. Chocolate.
<< <i>
Almost ALL (like 99+%) ancient coins have been cleaned at some point during the last couple of thousand years (or maybe just a thousand years).
And many are tooled. And many have had their surfaces smoothed.
Ancient coins cannot be graded as simplistically as modern coins.
Single-number grading just doesn't work for serious coins anyway.
>>
The above pretty much sums it up. Nearly all pre-milled coinage has been dug up at some point, whether as part of a hoard or as a single find. Just to identify many of them required cleaning. If slabbing and grading is required, just one of a number of additional parameters that require consideration ought to be the degree of cleaning done - i.e. none, a little, a lot, polished etc.
The grading of slabbed hammered coinage in general is fairly dubious. Most are overgraded as they don't lend themselves to a "calibrated amount of wear". If a coin has been clipped, does that mean it is damaged and should be rejected. How would you differentiate between clipped at the mint and later clipping. How do you cope with under or overweight coins and are the former clipped or not? Some are struck off-centre. With milled it is an error, with hammered it is almost the norm. There are many MS whatever grade hammered coins in catalogues with a lengthy description that could have been summed up in a few words - e.g. Very Fine. Weak in places with a flat portrait, irregular and double struck, otherwise practically as struck. The only difference is that the slab changes it from a $200 coin to a $1000 coin because the number tail wags the coin quality dog. Due to the inconsistencies in strike quality, VF, Fine or whatever level of detail is just as, if not more than important as the actual degree of wear.
The main conclusion to be drawn is that slabbing hammered coins is essentially irrelevant other than as a protective measure.
<< <i>They are stunning as is.
I don't know. It looks like a few may have been cleaned. >>
I sense some intended humour in this remark
<< <i>Here's a question - assuming you were given one of the coins in the picture, which would you choose? >>
The gold one.
the only way to go.
leaves a big question: how to recognize them later on.....
Answer: macro photography with 5 point marks.
<< <i>I assume these oldies are owned by a European collector and hence NO slabs..............................
the only way to go.
leaves a big question: how to recognize them later on.....
Answer: macro photography with 5 point marks. >>
Not sure why slabs are the only way to go with ancients or anything else for that matter. As for recognition, the simple answer is do your homework and know your coins. If the interest in the actual coin is zero and the owner is simply interested in the label, then they might as well buy any slab. The beauty of hammered coins is their lack of consistency. Know your coins and the individual detail will leap out at you. It is much, much easier than with milled.
With a slab you also have the inherent danger that they will be misattributed with the incorrect reference number on the label. If I had solely paid attention to the label, there would be 2 unique coins that would have simply ceased to exist under their previously recognised attribution, and I'm aware of other unique pieces that are incorrectly attributed. As for recognition, the recent thread I posted where a US$30K coin bore little resemblance to its previous appearance following "improvements" which permitted a proof 64 ultra cameo grade to be assigned as opposed to damaged would apply just as much to a slabbed coin as a raw coin. Coins can be worked on whether they are raw or slabbed, because if you really wanted to get it reslabbed, I'm sure you would find someone only too happy to help re-equip you with an intact slab and label. Some slab copies are very good.
The english style cabinets are pooh poohed a lot by those that havnt really thought it through.Considering the concept of slabbing is in it's infancy as opposed to felt lined quality cabinets.I suspect often as not the real motive for slabbing is profit.
I too like the fact that ancients are more unique / multi-dimentional and less concerned with a number on a piece of plastic. For more modern milled coins I love my slabs, I have never cracked one and only under certain circumstances would I ever crack a top-tier slab.
<< <i>The part i have trouble with in the to slab or not to slab debate is we accept those coins are thousands of years old , looking at them they look as if they were minted yesterday , so the idea of slabbing to protect or preserve the coin kinda goes out the window for me.It's been pointed out they are quite possibly cleaned as are most ancients which would get a more modern coin a genuine grade if not bb'ed so i don't see why an ancient coin would merit the often high grades expected.
The english style cabinets are pooh poohed a lot by those that havnt really thought it through.Considering the concept of slabbing is in it's infancy as opposed to felt lined quality cabinets.I suspect often as not the real motive for slabbing is profit. >>
I can't speak for the motives of others in slabbing, but my primary motivation is protection. Your point is well taken, these coins certainly look well preserved (some may well have been in the coin collection of a Roman Emperor, several of whom were known collectors, and/or other European nobility since then). However, keep in mind that many may have been 'worked on' to some degree ('coin doctoring' used to be considered just fine). Also, keep in mind you are NOT seeing the coins that did not survive or were hopelessly damaged. As to your point about coin cabinets versus slabs, I think I agree! I also would prefer to ride in a carriage (as people did for thousands of years) rather than an automobile. Or would I? The carriage is certainly more elegant, but perhaps not as functional.
These coins are part of the cultural heritage of mankind. They deserve all of the protection we can give them.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
sometimes thousands of years ago.
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
Coins on Television
<< <i>Ancient coin collectors like to handle their coins and wonder who handled them before,
sometimes thousands of years ago.
Bingo ;D
Bottom line - no matter what you may want to do, you either respect and protect the items that you have the privilege of 'owning' for a time, or you don't. If you have the attitude "Hey, this coin is mine, I can do whatever I want to with it, including fondling it", then so be it. There are many people who have a similar view of "ownership".
I see an Aegina turtle coin which looks gold (or electrum?). I thought those were all silver?