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Pedigree collectors: I have been a lazy numismatist--how many Norwebs have I missed over the years?
RYK
Posts: 35,788 ✭✭✭✭✭
This thread is for those who enjoy a coin's provenance. If you do not, do not bother reading further.
I recently was looking at a silver coin on a dealer's website that had that "old school" toning that is often found in coins from the Great Collections (Eliasberg, Garrett, and Norweb). I dutifully pulled out my catalogs and was unable to make a match to any of them. I spent a little extra time with the Norweb catalog and reinforced to myself that many of the No Motto gold coins, especially C and D coins, are in the VF-XF range (with gradeflation, now likely XF-AU). Additionally, of the three collections, the Norweb gold was the most recently sold and had the best photographs. It made me wonder how many times I considered a Norweb coin (either on the bourse, in an auction, or on a dealer website) and did not realize it. I have no way of knowing for sure, but I am certain that this has happened on numerous occasions.
I have rededicated myself to checking more frequently. One of my great joys in collecting is reconnecting coins to their heritage (small "h"
), and I have been a little bit lazy about trying to do this of late.
I recently was looking at a silver coin on a dealer's website that had that "old school" toning that is often found in coins from the Great Collections (Eliasberg, Garrett, and Norweb). I dutifully pulled out my catalogs and was unable to make a match to any of them. I spent a little extra time with the Norweb catalog and reinforced to myself that many of the No Motto gold coins, especially C and D coins, are in the VF-XF range (with gradeflation, now likely XF-AU). Additionally, of the three collections, the Norweb gold was the most recently sold and had the best photographs. It made me wonder how many times I considered a Norweb coin (either on the bourse, in an auction, or on a dealer website) and did not realize it. I have no way of knowing for sure, but I am certain that this has happened on numerous occasions.
I have rededicated myself to checking more frequently. One of my great joys in collecting is reconnecting coins to their heritage (small "h"
), and I have been a little bit lazy about trying to do this of late.0
Comments
<< <i>Glad to have you join our small but didicated club. It will only reward you with added value to your set once you find one or two
Huh? I was in the club before you joined, and, by last count, I have reunited 2 Eliasbergs and 3 Norwebs.
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<< <i>Glad to have you join our small but didicated club. It will only reward you with added value to your set once you find one or two
Huh? I was in the club before you joined, and, by last count, I have reunited 2 Eliasbergs and 3 Norwebs.
Huh?, that seems to contradict the title of your thread along with its content.
The "re" in "rededicate" would imply that I was once dedicated to this mission.
I forgot that I also tagged a Garrett pattern. I have also tagged some Bass gold coins, but these are common and more recently sold.
For me, it is not about adding value to my collection but about adding value to numismatic lore.
Both of you, along with many others you may not know, or that do not post here, are as dedicated to finding and keeping the money of old. Be it pedigreed or not. And they have been following this course for decades.
There is an Early dollar collector who has more Amon Carter examples than the handful you have described in your collections.
Luckily, I have over 10 Eliasberg halves and dollars, A Norweb that was once in the King Farouk collection, several Pittman halves, a few from Lester Merkin sales, and a couple of Reed Hawns.
Consider yourself fortunate, and smart, but realize you are 2 among many.
<< <i>I think that perhaps RO and TD are not understanding my mission. It is not about necessarily owning coin from the Great Collections. It is about rediscovering them long after the connection has been lost. >>
I understood/understand what you meant... what did I win? Did I win a 5 minute shopping spree on your website?
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<< <i>I think that perhaps RO and TD are not understanding my mission. It is not about necessarily owning coin from the Great Collections. It is about rediscovering them long after the connection has been lost. >>
I understood/understand what you meant... what did I win? Did I win a 5 minute shopping spree on your website?
Yes, and feel free to use the check-out cart.
What coins(date and grade) have you re-connected to one of the Great Collections? I understand your journey, and some frustration when you are not as serious as you want to be.( or once was).
And the story that got you there would be interesting.
A very good number of fine pedigrees. Are all the coins slabbed with the appropriate pedigree? Are some raw?
Are some not pedigreed on the holder, but you have independent research that confirms the prior ownership?
When trying to "re-connect", have the TPG's agreed to pedigree with the information you have supplied?
One was the 1868 proof QE from the Eliasberg sale. I found it in an auction catalog a few years ago, it had distinctive markings on the reverse, and I notified the auction company and several dealers.
Another was the 1858 eagle (classic rare gold rarity) from the Eliasberg collection, unattributed in an ANR sale--similar story.
Two were unattributed coins from the Legend inventory. One was a proof half cent that I discovered had been in the Norweb collection. Laura sent me the coin to have a better look. Another was a Garrett pattern shield nickel, and I was able to match it up from the photograph.
Patterns are a ripe area for this "research" because of their scarcity.
In my own collection, I tagged two Norweb coins (an 1841-C $5 and an 1883 $3--I later sold the latter).
After a while, I gave up on doing this. It is tedious and the success rate is rather low. Imagine going through the upcoming list of coins for auctions and trying to find photographic matches for coins in the Great Collections and being routinely frustrated by poor images (or even no images) in the old catalogs. I guess it was time consuming and unrewarding. I am sure I have missed some opportunities over the years.
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<< <i>Four coins immediately come to mind.
One was the 1868 proof QE from the Eliasberg sale. I found it in an auction catalog a few years ago, it had distinctive markings on the reverse, and I notified the auction company and several dealers.
Another was the 1858 eagle (classic rare gold rarity) from the Eliasberg collection, unattributed in an ANR sale--similar story.
Two were unattributed coins from the Legend inventory. One was a proof half cent that I discovered had been in the Norweb collection. Laura sent me the coin to have a better look. Another was a Garrett pattern shield nickel, and I was able to match it up from the photograph.
Patterns are a ripe area for this "research" because of their scarcity.
In my own collection, I tagged two Norweb coins (an 1841-C $5 and an 1883 $3--I later sold the latter).
After a while, I gave up on doing this. It is tedious and the success rate is rather low. Imagine going through the upcoming list of coins for auctions and trying to find photographic matches for coins in the Great Collections and being routinely frustrated by poor images (or even no images) in the old catalogs. I guess it was time consuming and unrewarding. I am sure I have missed some opportunities over the years. >>
What you find is tedious is what I find thrilling. I find my sucess rate is high in thrills and low in numbers but I can live with that because you never know when and where the nest one will turn when you are playing in the game. >>
My guess is that your focus is much more narrow so that it is easier to quickly learn the appearances of the coins and work through the coins on the market. Also, the catalogs for the Eliasberg silver coins were 14-15 years later than the gold coins (1982), and the quality of the photos substantially better.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Four coins immediately come to mind.
One was the 1868 proof QE from the Eliasberg sale. I found it in an auction catalog a few years ago, it had distinctive markings on the reverse, and I notified the auction company and several dealers.
Another was the 1858 eagle (classic rare gold rarity) from the Eliasberg collection, unattributed in an ANR sale--similar story.
Two were unattributed coins from the Legend inventory. One was a proof half cent that I discovered had been in the Norweb collection. Laura sent me the coin to have a better look. Another was a Garrett pattern shield nickel, and I was able to match it up from the photograph.
Patterns are a ripe area for this "research" because of their scarcity.
In my own collection, I tagged two Norweb coins (an 1841-C $5 and an 1883 $3--I later sold the latter).
After a while, I gave up on doing this. It is tedious and the success rate is rather low. Imagine going through the upcoming list of coins for auctions and trying to find photographic matches for coins in the Great Collections and being routinely frustrated by poor images (or even no images) in the old catalogs. I guess it was time consuming and unrewarding. I am sure I have missed some opportunities over the years. >>
What you find is tedious is what I find thrilling. I find my sucess rate is high in thrills and low in numbers but I can live with that because you never know when and where the nest one will turn when you are playing in the game. >>
My guess is that your focus is much more narrow so that it is easier to quickly learn the appearances of the coins and work through the coins on the market. Also, the catalogs for the Eliasberg silver coins were 14-15 years later than the gold coins (1982), and the quality of the photos substantially better. >>
Bingo, yes I make it easy on myself by focusing on only bust dimes and bust half dimes. However I don't let a lousy auction picture stop me. It is all about magnification and lighting and I spend hours trying to take an auction photo and place it over a photo of my coin with the help of a fine photographer named mark goodman. For example the DW Valentine Plate book is over 70 years old and I have successfully matched two, so it isn't the age it is the photo. And I just matched a plate photo that a fellow member posted here Cleaney to be exact which I forgot about in my above list. >>
With the crummy photos in the Eliasberg gold catalog, there is little hope for most pieces. At one of the several sales of the firm, the plates were unceremoniously discarded in the dumpster.
<< <i>All I care about is the RYK pedigree! >>
Funny that you should mention that!
I was at a certain car dealership last week and a fellow forum member who happens to work there pulled out a dirty $10 Liberty that was EX RYK.
The coin did not sticker so it made its way out of the RYK collection the same way as old yeller.
Coins and cars! SWEEEEEET!
ps. my mother in law (who my wife, I and daughter went with) found and bought a car there...
I enjoy tracking down pedigrees on my coins, particularly Barber Halves. I own a Norweb coin that dates from the Norweb sale of 1988, previously Peake 1955. I first bought the coin unattributed, but with the help of researching catalogs, was able to track it down and get the pedigree on the holder. My set also has four Eliasberg/Clapp coins, two bought outright by me from dealers with pedigrees on the holders and two unattributed. Ron Guth of PCGS figured out when he was doing Coin Facts that two of my coins were really from Eliasberg. My Eliasberg/Clapp coins include; 94-S, 01-O, 04-O, and 12-S. Other pedigrees include: Emery-Nichols, Duckor, Friend, Pryor.
I was at a certain car dealership last week and a fellow forum member who happens to work there pulled out a dirty $10 Liberty that was EX RYK.
The coin did not sticker so it made its way out of the RYK collection the same way as old yeller.
I only know one car dealer who is a forum member, and to my knowledge, I have never sold a coin to him. Does your employer, Rare Coin Wholesalers, know that you are taking shots at potential customers on a public forum?
<< <i>With the crummy photos in the Eliasberg gold catalog, there is little hope for most pieces. At one of the several sales of the firm, the plates were unceremoniously discarded in the dumpster. >>
Never heard that before. I do know the market for the photographic plates would have been thin in 1982. Today they would be a worth a boatload of money.
.
http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy117/coinhunters/Coins/Norweb Pedigree/124995_02.jpg
UGH, still didn't work.
Pick the Photobucket dropdown that says IMG.
<< <i>Funny that you should mention that!
I was at a certain car dealership last week and a fellow forum member who happens to work there pulled out a dirty $10 Liberty that was EX RYK.
The coin did not sticker so it made its way out of the RYK collection the same way as old yeller.
I only know one car dealer who is a forum member, and to my knowledge, I have never sold a coin to him. Does your employer, Rare Coin Wholesalers, know that you are taking shots at potential customers on a public forum? >>
You sold a gold coin to a forum member who sold it to another forum member who works as a car dealer.