BIN vs Auctions - Some people have more money than brains!

bobbyw8469 · July 20, 2011 12:21PM

Just venting....

BIN Michael Jordan RC - SGC 7.5 $600 (No Sale)

AUCTION Michael Jordan RC - SGC 7.5 $710 (SOLD!)

These both ended on the same night......I guess some people don't care if they blow an extra $110 dollars on the exact same card. I don't know about you, but I rather put the difference in my gas tank.....

Dpeck100 · July 20, 2011 12:25PM

Auctions unleash animal spirits. You have to be willing to let something go for less then you want to achieve higher sale results.

It is easier said then done.

hammered · July 20, 2011 12:33PM

They don't see BINs because they filter them out.

hhmag70 · July 20, 2011 12:39PM

<< They don't see BINs because they filter them out. >>

These are the same people complaining that all BIN listings are overpriced.

divecchia · July 20, 2011 12:39PM

<< They don't see BINs because they filter them out. >>

Probably, what happened...

Donato

SDavid · July 20, 2011 12:40PM

Auction card has better centering.

Dpeck100 · July 20, 2011 12:46PM

If you are searching for a Jordan Rookie you see all of the auctions.

Items that are not in high demand get lost in the shuffle.

People in many cases pay retail or more in a $0.99 auction of a high demand card. Once they want it they do not want to lose it.

bobbyw8469 · July 20, 2011 12:56PM

<< Auction card has better centering. >>

You are joking, right?? Hard to tell...the card that didn't sell was with a scanner that you can enlarge the pic. The other one was taken with a digital camera that you can't enlarge....

Dpeck100 · July 20, 2011 12:58PM

I tried selling my PSA 9 Jordan Rookie over a year ago for $1,150 as my final buy it now price. No takers.

Listed it as a $0.99 auction it went for $1,225.

Ebay buyers like auctions. It is what made EBAY.

bobbyw8469 · July 20, 2011 1:00PM

I guess it works both ways Dpeck. How many cards have you auctioned off to see sell for less than typical BIN's?

Dpeck100 · July 20, 2011 1:03PM

A Jordan rookie is a bad example. This is a liquid card.

Tons of other cards in a $0.99 auction will go for a fraction of what a well planned buy it now will go for.

miconelegacy · July 20, 2011 1:08PM

It does work both ways. Some days you lose, sone days you win. If you buy and sell quite a bit consistently, it washes out.

I picked up that 76 Hunter PSA 10 for 2,789(auction). Sold it for $2,900(buy it now). Just had the right person sell it for me. Made a couple quick hundred.

I'm betting that Griffey PSA 10's go to $300 once the Hall comes. I'll make 20 to 30 percent on my money, otherwise I'll break even. Still working on my strategies, and you can't have enough in this game/line of work. Sorry got random..

SDavid · July 20, 2011 1:15PM

<< 

<< Auction card has better centering. >>

You are joking, right?? Hard to tell...the card that didn't sell was with a scanner that you can enlarge the pic. The other one was taken with a digital camera that you can't enlarge.... >>

It's large enough to tell that the borders are even (or extremely close to even) t/b whereas the BIN clearly isn't. They're both a little off l/r. Neither card is worth $700 though considering that 8's can go for less than that.

wallst32 · July 20, 2011 1:20PM

<< 
Neither card is worth $700 though considering that 8's can go for less than that. >>

Also there really is no way of knowing if this auction was legitimate or not; card seems to have sold for more than it's usual going rate and could have been shilled.

bobbyw8469 · July 20, 2011 1:25PM

Auction was legit. Two people put in a snipe with 4 seconds to go. A shiller wouldn't bid with no time left on the clock hardly.

SDavid · July 20, 2011 1:30PM

<< 

<< 
Neither card is worth $700 though considering that 8's can go for less than that. >>

Also there really is no way of knowing if this auction was legitimate or not; card seems to have sold for more than it's usual going rate and could have been shilled. >>

Maybe. Or it could be a dealer who liked the centering and had an eye toward making an 8.5/9 out of it with another TPG. I remember a few years ago there was a thread about an 81 montana psa 8 that sold for a ridiculous amount and that card was bought by a well known dealer in FL. A lot of times there's more to these auction results than meets the eye, even beyond shilling.

Edited to add: I have no idea who the winner of this auction was. Just throwing that out there since this is a card that attracts that kind of attention.

GDM67 · July 20, 2011 1:37PM

<< 

<< They don't see BINs because they filter them out. >>

These are the same people complaining that all BIN listings are overpriced. >>

Exactly.

Toro · July 20, 2011 1:50PM

The auction card has FAR better eye appeal than the BIN card. You don't need to enlarge it to see the auction card is better centered. The corners on the BIN card have issues also.

storm888 · July 20, 2011 1:53PM

SGC Basketball

Total Listings 1,077

Auctions 63

BINs 1,014

LOTS of sellers like BINs.

ndleo · July 21, 2011 2:35AM

The fee structure for BINs is also much better than the 9% auction fee. When the auctions fees were capped at $50, the difference on higher end cards was minor. Now that the auction fee cap is $100, BINs have an advantage.

$1000 card

Auction Fee: $90
BIN Fee: $63

MULLINS5 · July 21, 2011 2:37AM

I always feel like I'm getting a better deal with an auction.

cards651 · July 21, 2011 2:54AM

I am probably one of those people that would have picked up the card at $710. However, this is only half of the equation. I often pick up cards for considerably lower than the going-BIN price. Lots of good responses on this thread and I agree with many of them. It's funny how many threads there are with people complaining about giving away things at auction. Clearly, not always the case. Also, auctions are fun. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I'm on eBay for a hobby. I'm not pricing gas for my car or milk for my kids. - Kevin M.

bobbyw8469 · July 21, 2011 3:03AM

<< I'm on eBay for a hobby. I'm not pricing gas for my car or milk for my kids >>

True. I understand that. However, you can't deny that money is USUALLY one of the main elements in a card purchase. A buyer would like to pay as little as possible, a seller would like to get as much as they can. When I see something that looks unusual in that regard, it just raises an eyebrow. Nothing more....

theczar · July 21, 2011 3:06AM

picked up that 76 Hunter PSA 10 for 2,789(auction). Sold it for $2,900(buy it now). Just had the right person sell it for me. Made a couple quick hundred

a couple usually means 2, or 200 in this case it looks like you made $111. maybe you got free shipping but unless the "right person" selling it for you did it as a favor, there seems to probably have been some ebay or other sellers fees.

to me that is a lot of aggrevation/hassle for a few bucks.

cards651 · July 21, 2011 3:10AM

Bobby, Money is always important. No question. But you are missing the other half of the equation. The card could have been won at $510. The bidders know they can get the exact same thing (let's assume the cards are essentially the same) for $600. They really want the card. They also know they can take a chance at getting it for considerably less than $600. They roll the dice at $710 and see what happens. I do this all the time although not in this price range. Just take the zeros off the end.

KbKards · July 21, 2011 5:20AM

Remember back in third grade when you heard the big kids talking about, "buy the card not the holder?" The cards were not the same. The card in the auction was a much better looking card. Four people agreed and their bids for "the card" were higher than what the "holder" could be purchased for elsewhere. They wanted a superior looking card and they were willing to pay a premium for it. Hitting the BIN on a card they didn't like just to save money wasn't an alternative for them.

bobbyw8469 · July 21, 2011 5:51AM

Are you 100% certain the auctioned card was better?? The auction card had an inferior scan that you couldn't enlarge. The BIN card had a scanned card that you could enlarge. In this day in age A SCANNER is paramount in regards to scanning cards. They produce the best results and show you the card in the best light (and all its flaws). I have had scanned cards look better in person than how they show up in the scanner. It is the nature of the beast. If the auctioned card had used a scanner instead of a digital camera would it have looked just as good, or will certain flaws that didn't show up due to the camera disatance suddenly "appear"???

Sullyknows · July 21, 2011 7:27AM

I don't concern myself with how other people spend their money, i just wish they would spend more on the stuff I'm selling!

olb31 · July 21, 2011 7:56AM

are you taking into account that about 25% of the auctions are shill bid?

Toro · July 21, 2011 8:22AM

<< Are you 100% certain the auctioned card was better? >>

Eye appeal. Which is strictly my opinion, which also means I'm right, IMO.

Especially centering, I don't need a pixel count to see that the auction Jordan has better centering. It's also apparent that it isn't creased or have major damage due to 7.5 grade.

otwcards · July 21, 2011 8:44AM

The card that closed at auction presents better than Bobby's fixed price card. Whether that was the reason that the bidders were willing to over pay for the other Jordan or that they didn't see (or didn't like) Bobby's is really a matter that can only be answered by the bidders. With Bobby's luck, he'd run it at auction and it would close for less than $500...

bobbyw8469 · July 21, 2011 8:58AM

<< With Bobby's luck, he'd run it at auction and it would close for less than $500... >>

lol..nah....but it did give me an idea....I am gonna list mine tonight...the exact same way the dude listed his...10 days....$500 opener......just as a test.....

mcadams · July 21, 2011 9:09AM

BINS are for losers. I agree with earlier post that claimed many bidders exclude BINS from their searches. I am one of those people who don't like to sort through thousands of BIN listings that are all listed 25% - 50% too high. Buyers dictate prices in this hobby, not sellers.

grote15 · July 21, 2011 9:27AM

Higher risk, higher reward, man. No reserve auctions always have higher ceilings than boring BINs.

I agree with the poster who said it's a byproduct of the bidding process. It's not about purchasing an item, it's about winning the auction. People are competitive, its what made ebay so popular in the early days.

Pittfan · July 21, 2011 9:32AM

<< Auction card has better centering. >>

Agree on that.

Dpeck100 · July 21, 2011 10:03AM

The real issue with a Buy It Now Vs. a true auction is that a BIN sends a message to the buyers that the price you are asking is the top. In an auction buyers battle each other and find a price.

If a card trades all of the time you can find a clearing price much easier. For cards that are very rare or low pop an auction will in almost all cases bring the higher price.

As a seller you have to find out what in your mind is the minimum you will take and if you don't think that can be achieved in an auction you must turn to the BIN.

If you are willing to take the risk of a dispointing result, you have the chance to share in the true upside should it come.

CollectorAtWork · July 21, 2011 4:12PM

<< picked up that 76 Hunter PSA 10 for 2,789(auction). Sold it for $2,900(buy it now). Just had the right person sell it for me. Made a couple quick hundred

a couple usually means 2, or 200 in this case it looks like you made $111. maybe you got free shipping but unless the "right person" selling it for you did it as a favor, there seems to probably have been some ebay or other sellers fees.

to me that is a lot of aggrevation/hassle for a few bucks. >>

Yea, I don't know how you made money on this because the net is only $111 before fees. Then if you have 3% paypal fees = $87, and Ebay BIN FVF = $103.5. If you have Top Seller, that would reduce to $82.8. Still Paypal + Ebay = $169.8, which means you would lose some $50 bucks.

KbKards · July 22, 2011 12:33AM

The auction card had better centering and less apparent corner wear. The BIN card was more off-center to the left and very off-center towards the top. The scan of the BIN card showed surface issues to the left of Jordan, and all 4 corners of the BIN card appeared to be worse than the corners of the auction card. The price on the auction card was pushed higher due to bids from buyers willing to pay a premium for what they saw as a high-end card. Maybe it will bump up in grade, maybe not. If the BIN card gets auctioned it won't get the same kind of bids from the buyers paying premiums for high-end cards. The first seller had a $465 most recent VCP sale price to compete against yet his card still hit $709. The next seller will have $709 as the most recent sale price helping him along but will have to hope all the buyer sees is the $709 VCP price.

bobbyw8469 · July 22, 2011 12:42AM

..Because I scanned my card with a scanner. If I used a digital camera and laid it against a white background like that other seller did, some of those "issues" would magically disappear. It is just the way it is. I invested in a scanner and use a black background because I feel it gives the best images. Some sellers that don't use a scanner have flaws magically appear once the card is in hand. That is just the way it is.....

grote15 · July 22, 2011 1:31AM

How does a scanner change centering? That's a neat trick, lol..

KbKards · July 22, 2011 2:03AM

The most obvious "defect" on the BIN card was the bottom to top centering, and centering to many buyers is the first and most important quality they look for, especially on a modern card like the Jordan rookie. The camera picture isn't hiding a centering issue and the picture quality was adequate enough to give buyers a good idea on what the corners and surface look like. If you look at both pictures and pick the card you like the best in terms of quality alone, then I don't think the card in the BIN will be picked. That's the way some people buy and they're not going to want the BIN just because it's $110 cheaper.

bobbyw8469 · July 22, 2011 2:26AM

<< How does a scanner change centering? That's a neat trick, lol.. >>

I was talking more about the corners and the edges than I was the centering. You can nay-say all you want - the bottom line is a black background BY A LONG SHOT works better for showing the card truly than a white/light background. A white/light background can hide defects. I took a picture of my Jordan on the carpet with my digital camera (same as the other seller did) just to prove a point. My card looked DARN CLOSE to his card in that it would have been hard pressed to tell a difference. You can talk about the centering....well, how about the tilt on his card? Noone mentions that. Bottom line, to compare cards, the scanned medium should be the same. I use a scanner with a black background because it produces the best images. It doesn't hide flaws - it magnifies them.

Toro · July 22, 2011 8:06AM

<< Some sellers that don't use a scanner have flaws magically appear once the card is in hand. >>

I'll say it if nobody else will, your baby IS UGLY! lol

Sean1125 · July 22, 2011 8:49AM

MJ Russell Dual Auto- Bin $600
$.99 listing- $760
Beckett Price- $700

Sold within the last 2 months.

bobbyw8469 · July 22, 2011 10:22AM

<< I'll say it if nobody else will, your baby IS UGLY! lol >>

Well...if my card is ugly, then call me the "ugly" collector, cause I will take every ugly card I can get my hands on if they look like that!

mcadams · July 22, 2011 10:29AM

You are the Ugly collector.

jdmi32 · July 22, 2011 11:43AM

It's apparent to just about everyone save Bobby that the auctioned Jordan has much greater eye appeal than the BIN Jordan. IMO, much more emphasis is being put on centering than ever before. Of the two Goodriches shown below, I was the under bidder on example A, which went for $360. I originally had a snipe set for over $400 and wish I had left it alone since another one like it might not come around for quite a while. Example B has been listed as a BIN ranging from $290 to its present price of $229, and still no takers, even though VCP average is around $280. From what I've observed, people are paying ever higher premiums for high end cards.

Card A:

Card B:

bobbyw8469 · July 22, 2011 12:17PM

Once again, you are looking at different colored backgrounds, and the scanner used for card 'B' is either over 10 years old, or one of those crappy "all-in-one" scanners. When scanning cards, a BLACK BACKGROUND is an ABSOLUTE MUST, as well as a decent scan. Crappy scans and digitial camera pics are NOT the way to get things done.

Look how crappy the red flip looks on the 2nd example. If the second example had used a black background instead of a white background, and purchased one of the snazzy Epson scanners (yes - I have one, as well as alot of board members), I wonder if that wouldn't make the 2nd card look better and change the perception that it is an inferior card......

MeteoriteGuy · July 22, 2011 12:38PM

<< Once again, you are looking at different colored backgrounds, and the scanner used for card 'B' is either over 10 years old, or one of those crappy "all-in-one" scanners. When scanning cards, a BLACK BACKGROUND is an ABSOLUTE MUST, as well as a decent scan. Crappy scans and digitial camera pics are NOT the way to get things done.

Look how crappy the red flip looks on the 2nd example. If the second example had used a black background instead of a white background, and purchased one of the snazzy Epson scanners (yes - I have one, as well as alot of board members), I wonder if that wouldn't make the 2nd card look better and change the perception that it is an inferior card...... >>

Spot on Bobby. You can even take a dozen scans of one card in the same scanner and have several good scans and several bad scans. This of course ignores that all one can see in ebay auctions is centering....there is a lot more to grading then that.

Clear Skies,
Mark

gemmintrarities · July 22, 2011 2:53PM

<< 

<< picked up that 76 Hunter PSA 10 for 2,789(auction). Sold it for $2,900(buy it now). Just had the right person sell it for me. Made a couple quick hundred

a couple usually means 2, or 200 in this case it looks like you made $111. maybe you got free shipping but unless the "right person" selling it for you did it as a favor, there seems to probably have been some ebay or other sellers fees.

to me that is a lot of aggrevation/hassle for a few bucks. >>

Yea, I don't know how you made money on this because the net is only $111 before fees. Then if you have 3% paypal fees = $87, and Ebay BIN FVF = $103.5. If you have Top Seller, that would reduce to $82.8. Still Paypal + Ebay = $169.8, which means you would lose some $50 bucks. >>

Exactly, I hope the guy selling it for you is paying the fees

BIN vs Auctions - Some people have more money than brains!

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