I Have An Upset eBayer - Advice Needed
gstarling
Posts: 463 ✭✭
I sold a card on eBay that had very large images that showed off it's condition accurately. I make it a habit to never list the condition of a raw card because there is just way too much interpretation out there, but I've done my fair share of subbing and I think the card is a solid 7 with a shot at an 8 (1 out of 5 times maybe).
The buyer is really giving me a hard time, saying the card will grade a 4. I know it is a much nicer than that so I offered to pay for the card and the fees associated with subbing it (shipping, submission, etc) if the card came back a 4 or lower. He said, no and implied my normal vision may be in need of assistance.
I really don't want the card back. I'm selling a few cards to pay for some recent purchases, but I'm not sure the guy is going to let it die. It's only a $50-$100 card, but I'd really like to just be done with it. I know he can hit my DSR, but I don't sell enough for that to matter.
Advice?
The buyer is really giving me a hard time, saying the card will grade a 4. I know it is a much nicer than that so I offered to pay for the card and the fees associated with subbing it (shipping, submission, etc) if the card came back a 4 or lower. He said, no and implied my normal vision may be in need of assistance.
I really don't want the card back. I'm selling a few cards to pay for some recent purchases, but I'm not sure the guy is going to let it die. It's only a $50-$100 card, but I'd really like to just be done with it. I know he can hit my DSR, but I don't sell enough for that to matter.
Advice?
Currently Buying:
2004 Tommie Harris SPX Printing Plate (White Whale will pay top $$$)
1994 SP Football Die Cuts PSA 10s
2004 Tommie Harris SPX Printing Plate (White Whale will pay top $$$)
1994 SP Football Die Cuts PSA 10s
0
Comments
refund him once you receive the card back.
Ebay Store:
Probstein123
phone: 973 747 6304
email: rickprobstein1@gmail.com
Probstein123 is actively accepting CONSIGNMENTS !!
"Buyers" who use EBAY to "buy" stuff "on approval" will almost
ALWAYS win an EBAY/PP SNAD claim.
Might as well just tell the "buyer" to return the card for a refund.
2004 Tommie Harris SPX Printing Plate (White Whale will pay top $$$)
1994 SP Football Die Cuts PSA 10s
<< <i>
<< <i>Client is King...
refund him once you receive the card back. >>
Have to disagree. If you clearly state that you do not accept returns then you should stick to your guns.
Don't be extorted by fear or the notion that a buyer may nick your stars or leave negative feedback.
Act politely and professionally and simply state the facts as given.
You can also offer a discount on further purchases as another option.
That said, if you would prefer to refund in spite of clearly stating that you do not, then always wait for the item to be returned (and inspected) before giving the full refund. In addition, make sure the buyer provides a tracking number. >>
It doesn't matter what return policy you state on your ebay listings. If the buyer files a SNAD claim, paypal/ebay will force you to accept a return and refund close to 100% of the time, and if you make the buyer go through the trouble of filing and closing out the claim, you're just asking for a neg.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
Have to disagree. If you clearly state that you do not accept returns then you should stick to your guns.
Don't be extorted by fear or the notion that a buyer may nick your stars or leave negative feedback.
Act politely and professionally and simply state the facts as given.
You can also offer a discount on further purchases as another option.
That said, if you would prefer to refund in spite of clearly stating that you do not, then always wait for the item to be returned (and inspected) before giving the full refund. In addition, make sure the buyer provides a tracking number. >>
It doesn't matter what return policy you state on your ebay listings. If the buyer files a SNAD claim, paypal/ebay will force you to accept a return and refund close to 100% of the time, and if you make the buyer go through the trouble of filing and closing out the claim, you're just asking for a neg. >>
Exactly. It continues to amuse me that some posters here think they can get away with a "no returns" policy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/190551553945
<< <i> In addition, make sure the buyer provides a tracking number. >>
///////////////////////////////////
I would NEVER mention a "tracking number."
EBAY/PP will explain that to the "on approval buyers," or they won't
hear about it. If the stuff gets lost in the mail, such is life in the day
of the BOGUS buyer.
"Return for a full refund" is the ONLY message that pretend buyers
get from me.
.......................
I have bought THOUSANDS of items on EBAY. Never had any reason
to return even ONE item.
I have sold THOUSANDS of items on EBAY. I have had DOZENS of
bogus returns.
It must be my fault. I must be a STUPID buyer and a SCAMMING
seller. NOT!
......................
In collectible categories, the venue has not yet been totally destroyed
by SCAMMING buyers. MANY other cats are now totally controlled by
criminals posing as buyers; fashion and electronics are a minefiled for
legitimate sellers.
There are HUNDREDS - prolly THOUSANDS - of vidoes on YT explaining
"how to get free stuff" on EBAY. The venue and their unregulated "non
bank" enable $MILLIONS in buyer fraud each year. The largest fence in
the world is also a haven for CRIMINALS posing as "buyers."
<< <i>"No returns" does work, so does offering refunds. It's all a matter of how you handle the situation. Sure sometimes you'll run into issues no matter what you do but good business can adapt to any situation.
Some sellers are afraid of sticking to their guns, and then they offer a refund ... and guess what, they still receive neutral or negative feedback? What then?
Other times you sell a set, they want to return it cause they like to do the old switch-a-roo with certain cards.
When it comes to single cards, it's obviously different then with sets, so more reasonable to offer refunds then, but it's up to you what you want to do and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
If you don't want the card back then don't accept it back ... call the buyer's bluff. Half the time that will stop the buyer in their tracks. >>
????? Uh no, it won't stop the buyer in his tracks. Because if he is used to playing this game, he will just proceed with the next step of filing an SNAD and will win. If he's not a game player, and genuinely deserves a refund, then your refusal will make him irate and earn you a neg while he gets his money back thru PP anyway.
Be smart. Don't damage your FB record over something you cannot control. I've given several refunds when I know the cards were accurately described in the auction. Doesn't matter, you move on. I'll also say that in my 13 years on eBay I've given 4 neg feedbacks, each one for sellers who refused to give me a refund. And I got my money back anyway each time.
Threads like this seem to come around weekly around here. Sellers should know that giving refunds is a part of selling. If your auction descriptions are accurate, it shouldn't happen often.
<< <i>Almost all the other cards are in PSA holders. Is there something about these cards which make them condition sensitive?
http://cgi.ebay.com/190551553945 >>
This is the card in question. There are no wrinkles. I bought this card and a few others to sub them, but got out of the hobby for a few months, let my PSA membership lapse, and stored a few up.
I just got back into collecting when I made a list of "Cards To Own Before I Die" and none of these were on it. So I sold them to fund my pursuit of some cards for my personal collection. That is the only reason they weren't graded as they were purchased to be sent in for grading at the time.
2004 Tommie Harris SPX Printing Plate (White Whale will pay top $$$)
1994 SP Football Die Cuts PSA 10s
<< <i>Right because when you buy a house you can return it for a refund. Ha!
You like doing things one way, that's fine, but please don't pretend that just because you like it that way so does everybody and that's the only way.
We've been offering no-refunds on ALL of our products and have never gotten negative feedback. We've had an occasional buyer try to scam us, but we've always stuck to our guns and always won. Sure, as the years progress, eventually we'll get negative feedback for one reason or another but that's no big deal. If you think that it's a big deal then you're operating under fear and there are better ways to do business.
The buyers you want are the ones that know you provide good products and solid service regardless of a few bad apples that provide non-positive feedback.
Ultimately it's about your sales, NOT your feedback. Can't remember the last time we were able to buy anything with feedback
I'm not sure what your house analogy has to do with the discussion but whatever...
When you gain more experience as a seller, you and your friends will realize the importance of not sacrificing your FB and your DSR rating just so you can claim no returns. So far you've been lucky. Your luck will rum out eventually, though, and if you continue to stick to your guns, as you say, your FB record will suffer (chasing away potential business), your DSRs will suffer (which will cost you money) and you will lose good customers who may genuinely be entitled to a refund, and who will not return because you were a jerk when they wanted their money back.
Giving refinds is not operating out of fear, but rather making the best of a faulty eBay system.
Experienced sellers do this, and not giving refunds is a novice move.
<< <i>
<< <i> In addition, make sure the buyer provides a tracking number. >>
///////////////////////////////////
I would NEVER mention a "tracking number."
EBAY/PP will explain that to the "on approval buyers," or they won't
hear about it. If the stuff gets lost in the mail, such is life in the day
of the BOGUS buyer.
"Return for a full refund" is the ONLY message that pretend buyers
get from me.
.......................
I have bought THOUSANDS of items on EBAY. Never had any reason
to return even ONE item.
I have sold THOUSANDS of items on EBAY. I have had DOZENS of
bogus returns.
It must be my fault. I must be a STUPID buyer and a SCAMMING
seller. NOT!
......................
In collectible categories, the venue has not yet been totally destroyed
by SCAMMING buyers. MANY other cats are now totally controlled by
criminals posing as buyers; fashion and electronics are a minefiled for
legitimate sellers.
There are HUNDREDS - prolly THOUSANDS - of vidoes on YT explaining
"how to get free stuff" on EBAY. The venue and their unregulated "non
bank" enable $MILLIONS in buyer fraud each year. The largest fence in
the world is also a haven for CRIMINALS posing as "buyers." >>
Considering all the transactions, scams, and borderline personalities involved, I really am surprised that there hasn't been an ebay related homicide that's made the news.
Ripping off a seller is easy, but you never know who you're ripping off.
<< <i>"No returns" does work, so does offering refunds. It's all a matter of how you handle the situation. Sure sometimes you'll run into issues no matter what you do but good business can adapt to any situation.
Some sellers are afraid of sticking to their guns, and then they offer a refund ... and guess what, they still receive neutral or negative feedback? What then? >>
Even sticking to your guns, paypal is going to rule against you in almost every case. If the buyer doesn't want the card, there are many excuses they can use to return it, and you will lose if they file a claim in most cases. Having "no refunds" in your description is meaningless. Sticking to your guns won't get you very far except in the event that the buyer is bluffing. In the end, you'll lose, and that process is far more likely to garner a negative feedback than a quick refund. In my 11 years selling on eBay, I have never once received a negative or neutral from somebody returning an item. Almost all of them leave a positive thanking me for making it right (in their eyes).
I agree that selling sets introduces risk of the 'ol switcheroo, but I still think over the long run you'll be far better off by accepting returns and offering great customer service vs. fighting every single return request.
<< <i>
<< <i>"No returns" does work, so does offering refunds. It's all a matter of how you handle the situation. Sure sometimes you'll run into issues no matter what you do but good business can adapt to any situation.
Some sellers are afraid of sticking to their guns, and then they offer a refund ... and guess what, they still receive neutral or negative feedback? What then?
Other times you sell a set, they want to return it cause they like to do the old switch-a-roo with certain cards.
When it comes to single cards, it's obviously different then with sets, so more reasonable to offer refunds then, but it's up to you what you want to do and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
If you don't want the card back then don't accept it back ... call the buyer's bluff. Half the time that will stop the buyer in their tracks. >>
????? Uh no, it won't stop the buyer in his tracks. Because if he is used to playing this game, he will just proceed with the next step of filing an SNAD and will win. If he's not a game player, and genuinely deserves a refund, then your refusal will make him irate and earn you a neg while he gets his money back thru PP anyway.
Be smart. Don't damage your FB record over something you cannot control. I've given several refunds when I know the cards were accurately described in the auction. Doesn't matter, you move on. I'll also say that in my 13 years on eBay I've given 4 neg feedbacks, each one for sellers who refused to give me a refund. And I got my money back anyway each time.
Threads like this seem to come around weekly around here. Sellers should know that giving refunds is a part of selling. If your auction descriptions are accurate, it shouldn't happen often. >>
Exactly. Well stated.
<< <i>We had a scam artist threaten us with violence over a box of '78 wax packs that we returned (following due process) as it was clearly resealed.
We wouldn't be manipulated by fear, and nor should anyone trying to sell on eBay. >>
Did the seller know that "you" are a "we" and was his threat phrased in the form of a one-to-many threat, many-to-many threat, or many-to-one threat?
<< <i>You're better off always offering great customer service.
Offering a refund, or not offering a refund, should never change this.
It's up to the seller to decide their policies, within the law, that's how the free market works.
Every situation is unique, and if there were certain circumstances where the wrong card was sent, or it was damaged in shipment then of course the buyer would receive a refund as we always purchase insurance for every order for the full value of the item. >>
Offering a refund IS part of offering great customer service. You aren't offering great customer service if returns (within a reasonable window) aren't allowed. All of the best consumer-facing web companies offer returns of items with no questions asked. The policies may differ slightly, but I find it comical how many eBay sellers think they should refuse refunds. The occasional fraud is simply the cost of doing business--every single web business (big and small) faces this challenge. 99 times out of 100 the buyer returning the item isn't looking to swindle you; rather, they just want their money back--even if you don't agree with their reasons. At least that's been my experience. The 1 out of 100 is the cost of doing business if eBay/paypal didn't make you whole.
The seller can decide their policies, but eBay is far from a free market and IT (not the seller) will decide which of these policies is enforced. If you want to sell cards in a free market, launch a site and start buying keywords on Google. But as long as you're on eBay, not offering refunds is a foolish approach and a terrible customer experience. And, of course, whether you like it or not, in most cases you will be forced to offer a refund if you want to continue selling on eBay.
I just finished listening to the EBAY Town Hall Meeting Live, on
EBAY Radio. The meeting will be archived in a few hours; folks
interested in the new round of "revisions" can access the archive
from the EBAY site.
The dog and pony show was laughable. A bunch of desperate fools
and consters a quarter-miss away from last-period pricing mode.
Almost time to SHORT this barker again.
Takeaways:
Get ready to decide if your return window is 14-days, or 30-days,
or 45-days, or 60-days.
NO effort will EVER be made to exclude the CRIMINALS posing as
"buyers" on the site. Shafted sellers should "report buyer abuse"
AFTER the damages have accrued; DSRs destroyed and FVF discounts
revoked.
If a "buyer" returns a broken item after 30/45/60-days under a
SNAD claim, the item will be presumed to have been broken PRIOR
to delivery. The "buyer" will be refunded and the seller can "report
buyer abuse" on appeal; good luck with that.
SOME fashion items will be more difficult for "buyers" to "rent" for
the weekend. (Proper wording in titles/listings may govern whether
an item falls into the de facto "refund exempt" category; certain
kinds of "occasion specific" items may get a break.)
NEVER communicate with a "buyer" via private email. MANY of the
seller adverse decisions have been based on he said/she said tales
about what sellers allegedly told a "buyer" in a private email that
COULD NOT be produced by that "buyer." Limiting communication
to the EBAY platform will remove this arrow from the SCAMMERS'
arsenal.
Keep the punctuation out of your extended titles. Just use words.
The USA obviously needs to ease visa requirements; few Americans
are qualified to collect paychecks at EBAY. The outfit needs to hire
more foreigners that can barely speak/understand English.
On the bright side, at least EBAY's USA sellers are not forced by LAW
to offer refunds for ANY reason the scammer creates. If you sell on
EBAY UK, you will be stolen from DAILY.
Oh, and the maroooons kept reminding everybody that "all people are
basically good."