Mark Grace is very underrated and the most underrated contact hitter in the last 20 years. I think Grace is every bit as worthy of the Hall of Fame as Ron Santo. Contact hitters are penalized so much by the Baseball Hall of Fame and the media. The Longball is overrated. Very few contact hitters ever become Superstars unless they are like Ichiro, who gets more attention than Tony Gwynn ever got.
Tim Raines is also very underrated, 808 Stolen Bases and .294 Average and 2600 Hits. Raines probably would have got to 3,000 if he had been an everyday player for his 6 or 7 seasons. He will get into the Hall of Fame before the veterans committee. He received 37.5% and I think his vote totals are going to rise when the voters, realize that he was a rare talent. Only Henderson,Brock,Billy Hamilton, and Ty Cobb have more stolen bases and they are all Hall of Famers. Raines average is higher than Lou Brock's and much Higher than Henderson's. No active major leaguer is even close to 800 and Juan Pierre and Carl Crawford will not even get to 700. Raines will make that jump, he is in 4th Year on the ballot.
That is true with Adam Dunn. Dunn walks a lot more than Kingman ever did, but they are similar because of they are Swing for the Fences Players with horrible batting averages. Dunn is having a terrible season. It would be amazing if Dunn hit 500 Home Runs and had less than a .240, still 7 Straight seasons with at least 38 Home Runs is impressive.
Coherent entry into this unassuming bunch, my vote would be
TONY OLIVA of early all Twins fame, voted All-Star under old auspices system his First 8 years in MLBaseball! Which was and maybe still tied record? Among peers referred to as Hall of Famer Status. Good Question- Breedy
good topic, and lots of worthy candidates. i will toss in dave stieb.......some of you have probably never heard of him, yet he won 176 games (and lost 137) with the toronto blue jays in the 1980s. those were some pitiful teams too. career era 3.44 with a no hitter (should have been two but for the bad hop over manny lee's head with two down in the ninth vs. cleveland one night).
the guy was a bulldog with wicked stuff and i truly believe if he pitched for a good team he would have won a minimum of 250 games and we might be asking if should be a hofer.
dave stieb. remember him? no?! truly underated.
eyebone
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If you used the MLB.com "Historical Stats" feature to get the home run totals, you were misled. There is some kind of glitch that caused many of the stats to be totaled incorrectly. The homer totals (and other stats) for Schmidt, Murray, Winfield, Dw. Evans, Rice and others are left short.
Speaking of the 80's, the winningest pitcher of the decade was..... Jack Morris.
"You know we just don't recognize the most significant moments of our lives while they're happening. Back then I thought, well, there'll be other days. I didn't realize that that was the only day."
You are right Jack Morris is very underrated. He would be in the Hall of Fame if not for the High ERA and wild pitches. Morris is a winner with Detroit, Toronto, and Minnesota. He probably will get in with the Veteran committee unless his vote totals skyrocket in his last 3 years on the ballot. No likely Hall of Famers are added to the Ballot next year. Larkin is probably the only Hall of Famer next year unless Morris and Jeff Bagwell really surge. Next year is Morris' only real shot. 2013 has Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, Biggio, Piazza, and Schilling. 2014 Maddux, Glavine, Thomas, Kent, and Mussina.
Was going to go with Harold Baines, and I do think he's underrated, but not horribly so. He was a very fine player, but his career statistics are largely attributable to playing a very long time, 22 different seasons. He had more than 2800 hits, but only hit above .300 in 8 different seasons. He's underrated because he's so unknown these days, but not the most underrated of all time.
I think Bill Buckner is a pretty good answer. His career was similar to Baines's, perhaps not quite as impressive given the lesser power numbers. But he's vastly underrated because most people these days only know that he booted a ground ball in the World Series. I followed baseball for 15 years before I learned anything else about him.
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FWIW, in between seeing the title and clicking on this thread I thought Al Oliver and Bill Madlock. So props to the OP. But then again I always had a thing for durable .300 hitters. cough KENNY LOFTON cough.
I was out of it for most of the 90s but HOLY SCHMIDT Tony Gwynn put up some numbers. I guess since he's such a nice guy he doesn't get the credit for being like two Jeters, a Cano and a half, and a Paul O'Neill combined. And now back to 24 hour coverage of the first guy to ever get 3,000 singles through the right side lol....
You are right Jack Morris is very underrated. He would be in the Hall of Fame if not the High ERA and wild pitches. Morris is a winner with Detroit, Toronto, and Minnesota. He probably will get in with the Veteran committee unless his vote totals skyrocket in his last 3 years on the ballot. No likely Hall of Famers are added to the Ballot next year. Larkin is probably the only Hall of Famer next year unless Morris and Jeff Bagwell really surge. Next year is Morris' only real shot. 2013 has Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, Biggio, Piazza, and Schilling. 2014 Maddux, Glavine, Thomas, Kent, and Mussina.
Next year Larkin and Morris will likely get in; Morris is definitely underrated as he was a dominant pitcher for most of his career and the ace of three different teams that won the World Series.
As far as 2013 goes, you're on crack if you think Bonds, Clemens, Sosa or Schilling are getting in on the first ballot. I don't see them breaking the ice with the confirmed steroid users anytime soon, and Schilling's body of work makes him an on the fence guy, but definitely not a first balloter. That leaves Piazza who will likely get in and Biggio who will likely have to wait a year or two. My guess is Piazza gets in that year with a guy who's been on the ballot a while like Raines.
I would add: Rick Sutcliffe- untouchable when he was healthy and in his prime Andres Galarraga- hit for avg and power for a long time and doesn't get credit because he played in Colorado. Look at his stats in 98-00 when he was with Atlanta. Fred Lynn- Solid and clutch Larry Walker- benefitted form Colorado but would've been a great hitter anywhere Jimmy Key- very solid throughout his career
Just my opinion, but I don't think you can be a Hall of Famer and still be considered underrated. Enough people rated you as a great player to make the Hall, and most likely they're not related to you.
Ted Simmons. The guy was one of the greatest hitting catchers of all time and went to 8 allstar games. He ended up with a .285 career batting average and almost 2500 hits. Very overlooked and barely considered for the hall of fame.
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<< <i>I'll add Joe Carter for that home run in the world series, pretty much never mentioned anymore but was a pretty big deal at one time. For me anyway >>
That, along with the Puckett and Gibson HRs, are probably the coolest baseball moments of my lifetime.
This is going to sound crazy since he is definitely an icon and probably the most popular player ever, but I think Babe Ruth is underrated. He was so far ahead of the curve and all others for his day. Just my personal opinion. There's a great book about the year Babe Ruth hit 115 home runs or something to that effect that I read a couple of years ago. I highly recommend it.
Jose Canseco, I mean the guy is 47 and still going strong. MLB failed to realize the long term potential of this great athelete. He's tearin' up the independent league right now as we speak. He is known for the long ball and that is his specialty, everybody knows that. Steroids, who cares this guy has hit balls over stadiums!
I would suggest that there is no single player that wouldbe the best for all time
Johnny Mize seems to be a strong candidate-
But what about Ralph Kiner?
I would vote to Kiner
In terms of more modern players- Tony Oliva is a good candidate
But What about Billy Williams? - I would have suggested Williams over Oliva even though both players were great
I would also vote for Frank Howard- for two reasons
He never got the playing time with the Dodgers that was warranted-that deprived him of the best years of his career- and I still believe he has hit the longest HR in the history of the game and I would argue that until a certain place freezes over
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This was a great read. I kept seeing names and thinking, that guy is totally underrated. Maddux, Gwynn, Murph, and so many others. All of your points are very valid and I really can't post a good argument against any of them.
However, the one I like the best is Rock Raines. I remember reading a Bill James piece stating how much better Raines was than Rose. I was swayed.
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Tim Raines is also very underrated, 808 Stolen Bases and .294 Average and 2600 Hits. Raines probably would have got to 3,000 if he had been an everyday player for his 6 or 7 seasons. He will get into the Hall of Fame before the veterans committee. He received 37.5% and I think his vote totals are going to rise when the voters, realize that he was a rare talent. Only Henderson,Brock,Billy Hamilton, and Ty Cobb have more stolen bases and they are all Hall of Famers. Raines average is higher than Lou Brock's and much Higher than Henderson's. No active major leaguer is even close to 800 and Juan Pierre and Carl Crawford will not even get to 700. Raines will make that jump, he is in 4th Year on the ballot.
I did not know much about him until I read a big baseball chronicle book.
Led league in ERA 9 times!
Led league in strikeouts 7 years in a row!
All this during a hitter's era.
Murphy 308
Schmidt 280
TONY OLIVA of early all Twins fame, voted All-Star under old auspices system his First 8 years in MLBaseball!
Which was and maybe still tied record? Among peers referred to as Hall of Famer Status.
Good Question- Breedy
Probally will never get in the HOF, but he was one heck of a great ball player!
the guy was a bulldog with wicked stuff and i truly believe if he pitched for a good team he would have won a minimum of 250 games and we might be asking if should be a hofer.
dave stieb. remember him? no?! truly underated.
eyebone
<< <i>Dale Murphy hit 28 more home runs in the 80's, than any other major league player.
Murphy 308
Schmidt 280 >>
Mike Schmidt hit 313 home runs in the '80's, 5 more than Dale Murphy.
1980 48
1981 31
1982 35
1983 40
1984 36
1985 33
1986 37
1987 35
1988 12
1989 6
_______
313
LodiBrewFan,
If you used the MLB.com "Historical Stats" feature to get the home run totals, you were misled. There is some kind of glitch that caused many of the stats to be totaled incorrectly. The homer totals (and other stats) for Schmidt, Murray, Winfield, Dw. Evans, Rice and others are left short.
You lose a batting title with a 0.352 average??
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<< <i>You are right Jack Morris is very underrated. He would be in the Hall of Fame if not the High ERA
LMAO!
Darrell Evans
Amos Otis
Bobby Grich
Tim Raines
<< <i>Harold Baines >>
Was going to go with Harold Baines, and I do think he's underrated, but not horribly so. He was a very fine player, but his career statistics are largely attributable to playing a very long time, 22 different seasons. He had more than 2800 hits, but only hit above .300 in 8 different seasons. He's underrated because he's so unknown these days, but not the most underrated of all time.
I think Bill Buckner is a pretty good answer. His career was similar to Baines's, perhaps not quite as impressive given the lesser power numbers. But he's vastly underrated because most people these days only know that he booted a ground ball in the World Series. I followed baseball for 15 years before I learned anything else about him.
I was out of it for most of the 90s but HOLY SCHMIDT Tony Gwynn put up some numbers. I guess since he's such a nice guy he doesn't get the credit for being like two Jeters, a Cano and a half, and a Paul O'Neill combined. And now back to 24 hour coverage of the first guy to ever get 3,000 singles through the right side lol....
Next year Larkin and Morris will likely get in; Morris is definitely underrated as he was a dominant pitcher for most of his career and the ace of three different teams that won the World Series.
As far as 2013 goes, you're on crack if you think Bonds, Clemens, Sosa or Schilling are getting in on the first ballot. I don't see them breaking the ice with the confirmed steroid users anytime soon, and Schilling's body of work makes him an on the fence guy, but definitely not a first balloter. That leaves Piazza who will likely get in and Biggio who will likely have to wait a year or two. My guess is Piazza gets in that year with a guy who's been on the ballot a while like Raines.
I would add:
Rick Sutcliffe- untouchable when he was healthy and in his prime
Andres Galarraga- hit for avg and power for a long time and doesn't get credit because he played in Colorado. Look at his stats in 98-00 when he was with Atlanta.
Fred Lynn- Solid and clutch
Larry Walker- benefitted form Colorado but would've been a great hitter anywhere
Jimmy Key- very solid throughout his career
Carney Lansford
A couple more underated players.
Dick Allen
Dave Parker
Don Baylor
Edgar Martinez
Yogi Berra
The guy was one of the greatest hitting catchers of all time and went to 8 allstar games. He ended up with a .285 career batting average and almost 2500 hits. Very overlooked and barely considered for the hall of fame.
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<< <i>Lonnie Smith >>
Based on what?
I thought he was always viewed as just another common. haha.
<< <i>I'll add Joe Carter for that home run in the world series, pretty much never mentioned anymore but was a pretty big deal at one time. For me anyway >>
That, along with the Puckett and Gibson HRs, are probably the coolest baseball moments of my lifetime.
Joe Shlabotnik
I would suggest that there is no single player that wouldbe the best for all time
Johnny Mize seems to be a strong candidate-
But what about Ralph Kiner?
I would vote to Kiner
In terms of more modern players- Tony Oliva is a good candidate
But What about Billy Williams? - I would have suggested Williams over Oliva even though both players were great
I would also vote for Frank Howard- for two reasons
He never got the playing time with the Dodgers that was warranted-that deprived him of the best years of his career- and I still believe he has hit the longest HR in the history of the game and I would argue that until a certain place freezes over
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
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However, the one I like the best is Rock Raines. I remember reading a Bill James piece stating how much better Raines was than Rose. I was swayed.
54 Red Hearts
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