RESULTS! My Electrotype Experiment.....You will be AMAZED!!

ambro51

OK Folks, remember, I started with one large cent, a beeswax candle, some graphite powder, copper wire, copper sulfate, sulfuric acid, one D cell, and an small bowl.

Youve seen some of the action....

well, this morning, pulled out the wires and all, and the anode was completely gone.





The cathode (mould) was covered in bright sparkly crystalline looking Copper.



Out comes the blowtorch...and I melt the wax off...



and heres a large cent!




Melting the wax raised the temps and some silvery looking color came in, so I gave it a mild cyanide dip to restore the fresh copper surface.


A bit of cropping, since the edges are a tad ragged....

and THIS is what I got~!





Isnt that AMAZING! First attempt, and holy moly....it looks GOOD< eh?


A few Macros...







and a side by side.




Pretty Kool, eh? And this thing is solid, hard copper. NOT like granular dust...real, very strong hard metal.

WOW

mingot

Very cool !

ModCrewman

Cool. Do you think you can reduce the porosity with some more practice?

STONE

<< <i> >>



I can't tell which one is real and which is the electrotype




Nice stuff, now come the minor tweaks for improving from those results

DorkGirl

guitarwes

purdy cool.

Did you post earlier about this on the boards? Do you have links to the posts?

llafoe

I'm AMAZED!

erickso1

I'll give you the Unc, but I don't think it is going to grade any higher then a 60.

When can I get mine?

keyman64

How is porosity reduced? Have you researched better wax than bees wax or do you need to move to a perfect plastic mold? Would this also improve the "strength of strike" issue?

How do you avoid the "Silver Look" and get something red?


AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME!

DUIGUY

Very Cool!

Call me when you reach this level of skill!

drwstr123

Great job...now that's a hobby.
I'd try varying the voltage to see its effect on granulation,

edix2001

I'm astounded!

Tdec1000

I want to see a feutchwanger!!

TPRC

Ambro--That is remarkable!

erwindoc

Interesting results

thebeav

That is very cool !
Nice job.....

rhedden

If you want to have some cruel fun,


1) Make 20 more of them, preferably rare dates.

2) Grab shovel, go to local park.

3) Bury coins in random places, about 6 inches down.

4) Grab a beer and have fun watching the metal detecting forum explode with large cent discoveries in your area.







Serious question: are silver electrotypes possible?

cladking

Excellent work.

Thanks for sharing.

illini420

pretty neat, but where do you plan on putting the "COPY" stamp???

ambro51

Its very much going to be a learning experience.....two attempts last night were failures. I tried using a waxed thin cardboard collar around the mould, which was graphited also. The wires wrapped around that, and I thought the charge would go all around the lip and let the copper form inside, thus giving a Cap effect, the shell, the one half of the coin. But, the cardboard did not carry the charge at all. So....I need to find some kind of conductive material, or figure out how they got the coin INTO the wax, and then OUT, leaving a rim. Its a learning experience.

In the instructions, it said that if the voltage was too high, a brown muddy deposit would form on the anode, and that happened with 3 volts...so its back to 1.5. The quantity of metal on the electro and wires I think is equal to the metal in the anode. The solution does not contribute to the metal, only allows the transfer of electrons and ions. (correct me if Im wrong here).

The second and third attempts are in the bath now. copper is forming well around them One is another attempt at this reverse, but with the mould a bit more carefully prepared and graphited. The other one, well...I had to try it, is the obverse of my New Jersey Cent!

RunnersDad

What an awesome experiment Ambro, thanks for sharing this with us!

crypto79

If only you had a knack for mechanical ingenuity and processes

Lakesammman

That's really cool - no idea it would form that fast! Looking forward to the results of your other experiments.

LanLord

So the question is:

How much do you figure something like that cost you to make, and how much to sell?


I'd like a bunch of those to put into a table top with an old map and some other old stuff (under varnish).

JMW

Great experiment, thanks for sharing it.

MikeInFL

Neat, thanks for sharing!

Cam40

a great learning experience for everyone.
thanks for sharing.

ambro51

I pulled the new jersey cent tonite...and was pretty disappointed. I *thought* it was coppering up rather quickly, on purpose I had set the anode cathode about 1/2 inch apart...seems that resulted in a piece NOT unlike the Maris reject posted on another thread about this project. The lettering was OK, but there were blister and bumps everywhere. so...when they say 3/4 to 1 inch apart...I guess they mean it. Also, for some reason I did not filter the solution before starting this on.

So, a reset, more spacing,...and a less quick buildup.

seems my biggest problem is not getting good rims around the piece from the beeswax cast. Need to rethink this part, maybe a silicon casing may be better.

After all, my instructions are a century old, things HAVE changed a little.

I wish I had knew about this stuff at age 14 I would have had a blast (come to think about it..that 14 year old inside me IS having a blast)

ambro51

lets see what this stuff does. just hit the BIN>

http://cgi.ebay.com/EASY-MOLD-SILICONE-MOLDING-PUTTY-CASTING-1-2-POUND-/290579163732?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a7de2a54

jedm

Very interesting and informative thread. What you said about the "14 year old inside" is so true! Thanks for keeping us updated on the process.

jayPem

Another great thread !
Between this and Realone's tantalizing post, I'd say this forum is starting to get back on it's feet at last !

ranshdow

Wicked cool.

Justacommeman

Impressive stuff sir. MJ

coinman420

ambro, i just posted on your other post so check that for some tips.

you got great results on this first piece. yeah that cardboard acted as an insulator and did not carry current to the mold.


i wonder how it would turn out if you used a pre-1982 cent as an anode?

ambro51

Well, heres another one! I think Ive learned what that pitting/grnularity is....its the graphite particles..I think, so Im getting a graphite "spray" which may make the surfaces much smoother. Also learned a good way to get that beeswax impression. Rather than pouring the liquid wax, I made a plexiglass piece, about 1/2 inch thick with an inch hole bored through it. Then, a beewsax cylinder is cast and mostly cooled, but left on the soft side. The feuchtwanger 3 is a little under an inch, so whan the wax squeezed down, it made the shoulder on the rim, so on the next one (not this one, which is just a face), it will be a cup that this face can fit into. The mold release problem was solved by the 19th century advice of coating the piece lightly with 'sweet oil" wihich nowadays we call baby oil. Once the mould was pressed, and cooled, the coin dropped out into the palm of my hand.

So I am getting pretty decent detail, this IS made from a circulated coin, but the detail especially on the feathers near the back is pretty good.

Hope to get these smoother.....may have to drop the voltage with a piece of 36 gauge iron wire to act a resistance wire...that may slow the formation and decrease the granularity...that and the graphite spray.


The reverse is still in the bath, but heres the front
The Copy, note how many of the small marks are replicated....the Origina.

ModCrewman

Re: Feuchtwanger - That didn't take you long.

DieClash

<< <i>That's really cool - no idea it would form that fast! Looking forward to the results of your other experiments. >>



I cconcur! WAY

Thanks for sharing.

Cheers!



Kirk

indiananationals

that is crazy awesome i need to learn do do this ...u got some instructions on how to do it

ambro51

I think I "got it" now with the beeswax dies, this one was the last of the hot pour dies.

Messed around with a little tonite, some AT work......

Next ones will be really nice. Im getting to understand this now.... both making the moulds and leaning how to treat them. made the dum mistake of pouring some silver nitrate solution on this one...an attempt to darken it a bit, yeah right...stone black instantly, so it was back to the cyanide dip which does in effect remove metal so the "strike" degraded a bit. Live and learn.


BTW this is a pretty close representation of the unique HT264 which is Low 118 struck in Copper. Since Ill probably never get that one *well, it hasnt came up for sale lately* making a nice electrotype will be neat.

kaz

Some very cool experiments. I'm having a blast following along. The forum's own "Mad Scientist!"

Cam40

it brings out the 14 yr old in alot of us.

Topdollarpaid

Is this legal?

Are u going to make some chain cents too?

Just wondering

ambro51

Well, in fact its NOT legal. U might have read where they nailed former guv Rod B? One of the counts was illegally making electrotypes.

seriously, I do suppose that in essence anything like this that would be two faced and an exact replica of the coin would need to be stamped COPY...but back in the day (19th century) it was an amazingly popular method of "exhibiting" and enjoying your coin colletion.

I think if these could be well executed, they would be popular amongst todays serious collectors who might desire a copy of their icoin that they could freely handle and enjoy.

A chain cent? Well, first off, I dont own one. Also, youd need a high grade piece to copy....

But Ive been thinking about doing my Shriver Dollar!

Zoins

Would off-metal versions be legal?

Great posts and photos. Thanks for taking us along for the ride!

ambro51

Im no expert, I just threw some stuff together and made a few of these.

A few more are in the tank now and Im SO eager to pull them out but am going to wait until the anodes are fully dissolved to see how much weight and mass the piece can accumulate. The face shell of the F weighed only 22 grains. The original coin should weight 106 grains. So, the thickness of the pieces, if they equal the weight of the coin, should only require epoxy adhesion rather than leading.

Its amazing how HARD this copper is! Takes a dremel cutoff wheel to cut it well, and a sharp file to dress it down.

Cam40

can you show us a dressed up piece?

Shamika

Such a great thread. Might I suggest using boiling water to melt the wax instead of a torch.