New Registry Award Rules and the Complete U.S. Type Set (1792-1964)

keyman64 · June 27, 2011 4:27AM

Goldbully posted a cool thread that said that PCGS is going to exhibit the High Desert Collection of US Type Set (1792-1964) at ANA. Very exciting! And from what has been teased so far, it will be an amzing collection to view if you are fortunate enough to make it to the ANA and view it. It is a most generous gesture by the owner to allow some of his coins to be displayed!

From the thread, only 30 out of the 137 coins will be exhibited at the Professional Coin Grading Service booth (#200) from Tuesday, August 16 until about noon on Saturday, August 20, 2011.
A new PCGS rule this year states that the set must be "PUBLISHED" according to an email from BJ Searls on 6/2/2011. Published to me means viewable for all to see...and in this digital world I would think the set would need to be viewable online at PCGS.com at least a list of the coins and grades if photos are not shown. A list would meet the requirement for me...although PHOTOS would be a lot better and educational for those that want to examine the set.

The High Desert Collection is still not VIEWABLE("PUBLISHED") HERE so I guess this special display of 21.89% of the set at the ANA might be the way around that new requirement? Allow only 30 out of the 137 coins to be displayed at a show for a couple of days and you get around the new rules? Will he still be eligible for a registry set award?

#2 Gopher State is also not viewable.

#3 Hoiner is also not viewable.

Will the #4 Andrew12173 Set get the award...if he adds one more coin to make it more than 90% complete since his is viewable?...or will no one get the award this year?

illini420 · June 27, 2011 4:35AM

well the deadline isn't until June 30... perhaps the sets will be published for a few hours as the deadline passes, and then locked back up for no one to ever see???

When i saw the thread about the High Desert display I was initially pretty excited and even thought that might be a good excuse to make the trip to Chicago! But then I saw that not even 1/4 of the collection would be there, it was sort of a buzz kill! I guess it's better than nothing though.

keyman64 · June 27, 2011 4:40AM

It sounds like a way around the rules to me. High Desert will never have to show his hand (although an expensive way of accomplishing it assuming he is paying for the insurance, shipping, security of the display which I doubt for some reason)...and might still get the award?

DIMEMAN · June 27, 2011 4:50AM

I don't know why anyone would even want to be in the Registry if the set was not viewable!!!

Doesn't make any sense at all to me!!

He should NOT get the award as far as I'm concerned!!

illini420 · June 27, 2011 4:53AM

I can't imagine the person with the highest ranked published set would be too pleased if an unpublised set still received the award.

LindeDad · June 27, 2011 5:07AM

Take a quick look on Thursday those guys know how to play the game.

keyman64 · June 27, 2011 5:11AM

<< Take a quick look on Thursday those guys know how to play the game.

>>

I was thinking about that...Thursday during what 10 second period of time please? I will take screen shots and print it out then republish for everyone to REALLY SEE. Geez!

Who plans on refreshing their computer screen every couple of seconds from Wednesday night and into Thursday? We can all sign up for 30 minute intervals so that all time is covered...is this how we do it?

Caleb · June 27, 2011 5:24AM

Being "Published" and then being "Viewable to the Public" are two different things

If the set(s) hold a slot in the Registry then it is "Published", if you can view the make up of the set or not is up to the owner and has nothing to do with the rules.

keyman64 · June 27, 2011 5:34AM

<< Being "Published" and then being "Viewable to the Public" are two different things

If the set(s) hold a slot in the Registry then it is "Published", if you can view the make up of the set or not is up to the owner and has nothing to do with the rules.

>>

I think(hope) that your view is in the minority.

That is like looking at a book. You can read the title but are not allowed to open the book and read the "published work". It is just a title OF THE PUBLISHED WORK you are looking at...

I think the "spirit of the rule" is that the contents of the set be published, not just someone can come up with a catchy title and then show nothing. Makes no sense to me.

bolivarshagnasty · June 27, 2011 6:07AM

keyman64, This topic has been covered in the past. Caleb is absolutely correct. Published means that your set has shown up in the registry. Obscured is at the discretion of the Registry Participant. Spoke with BJ about this subject a couple of years ago. Mel

keyman64 · June 27, 2011 6:09AM

<< keyman64, This topic has been covered in the past. Caleb is absolutely correct. Published means that your set has shown up in the registry. Obscured is at the discretion of the Registry Participant. Spoke with BJ about this subject a couple of years ago. Mel >>

I understood this to be a NEW RULE this year though.

Published, as the dictionary describes, means that it is made available to the public. How about I "publish a book", it will have a fancy title on it, but no one can open it...they could be blank pages. I will have my best friend tell you that it is an amzing book to read though. Makes no sense to me.

If you do not believe me on the DEFINITION OF THE WORD PUBLISHED then you can take a look for yourself. It's published.

Published does not mean just a fancy title. The dictionary says so. Published is the terminology that PCGS used so that is why I keep referencing it. If they want to change the rules, that's fine. They can do that but they should not use the word "published", that's for sure.

keyman64 · June 27, 2011 9:27AM

So, to expand a little further, when information is held PRIVATELY(between the set owner and PCGS), as in this case, the information is not PUBLIC and therefore NOT PUBLISHED.

The English language and those darn dictionaries always getting in the way. Crazy, isn't it? I wish someone would either change the rules so it suits them, using proper English, or confirm that this line of thinking is correct and let us know if any set in this category will receive an award. Or, maybe the set will in fact be published online, as required by the rules, by the deadline?

I will just have to hold our breath to see I guess.

Caleb · June 27, 2011 9:56AM

<< So, to expand a little further, when information is held PRIVATELY(between the set owner and PCGS), as in this case, the information is not PUBLIC and therefore NOT PUBLISHED.

The English language and those darn dictionaries always getting in the way. Crazy, isn't it? I wish someone would either change the rules so it suits them, using proper English, or confirm that this line of thinking is correct and let us know if any set in this category will receive an award. Or, maybe the set will in fact be published online, as required by the rules, by the deadline?

I will just have to hold our breath to see I guess. >>

Not sure why the learning curve is so hard?

If anyone edits their set(s), the will see that they have a choice to "Published" and "Allow the public to view set item details". The set can be "Published" and not checked off to "Allow the public to view set item details".

There are several valid reasons for keeping a set "Private", what is the problem?

keyman64 · June 27, 2011 10:16AM

Young lad, the problem is in the terminology used. Further, you seem to have an issue with understanding the English language dictionary. Those are the problems here. They can call it smurfing(doesn't make it right) for all I care but "Publish" means making something available to the public...not something held private between two parties. "Publish" is the word used in the rules. It doesn't correspond with the English language dictionary that so many of us use....or at least some of us anyway.

Caleb · June 27, 2011 10:43AM

<< Young lad, the problem is in the terminology used. Further, you seem to have an issue with understanding the English language dictionary. Those are the problems here. They can call it smurfing(doesn't make it right) for all I care but "Publish" means making something available to the public...not something held private between two parties. "Publish" is the word used in the rules. It doesn't correspond with the English language dictionary that so many of us use....or at least some of us anyway.

>>

Sorry, I have no problem with the english language. I wish they had a crying towel icon to pick from.

Definition of the word “Publish” (from Webster’s Dictionary):

A. To make generally known

B. to make public announcement

Whether or not if the owner of a set wants to allow others to view it, it was “Published” when the owner listed the set in the Registry by making it generally known that he had a set. Just the fact that he put the set in the Registry makes the argument that the owner was making a public announcement.

You can try to make what the word “Publish” means what ever you want to but if the owner doesn’t want to show the make up of his / her set(s), that is their business, get over it.

JMHO

bolivarshagnasty · June 27, 2011 10:45AM

If you dislike the manner in which "publish" is being used by PCGS, feel free to contact Don Willis or David Hall and point out this egregious misuse of the English language! Your high school English teacher will applaud you.

tradedollarnut · June 27, 2011 10:46AM

<< Young lad, the problem is in the terminology used. Further, you seem to have an issue with understanding the English language dictionary. Those are the problems here. They can call it smurfing(doesn't make it right) for all I care but "Publish" means making something available to the public...not something held private between two parties. "Publish" is the word used in the rules. It doesn't correspond with the English language dictionary that so many of us use....or at least some of us anyway.

>>

With all due respect, just because you get indignant and throw around dictionary meanings doesn't mean you are right. Learn to accept when you are wrong - you'll be a better person for it.

keyman64 · June 27, 2011 1:12PM

<< Sorry, I have no problem with the english language. I wish they had a crying towel icon to pick from.

Definition of the word “Publish” (from Webster’s Dictionary):

A. To make generally known

B. to make public announcement

Whether or not if the owner of a set wants to allow others to view it, it was “Published” when the owner listed the set in the Registry by making it generally known that he had a set. Just the fact that he put the set in the Registry makes the argument that the owner was making a public announcement.

You can try to make what the word “Publish” means what ever you want to but if the owner doesn’t want to show the make up of his / her set(s), that is their business, get over it.

JMHO >>

Caleb, I cry for you, the youth of America. It makes me sad.

.... ok, not really.

To make generally known or to make public DOES NOT EQUAL one private party sharing information with an entity/company.... This is not remotely close to a public announcement or generally known.

Please, please Caleb, stay in school. You will not only help yourself but those of us that have to read posts such as yours. Semantics is something you can learn here or in school.

NMHO (Not my humble opinion), just the facts.

keyman64 · June 27, 2011 1:17PM

<< With all due respect, just because you get indignant and throw around dictionary meanings doesn't mean you are right. Learn to accept when you are wrong - you'll be a better person for it. >>

Bruce, I accept when I am wrong whenever I can and I learn from those instances. In this particular case I am right. In regards to me becoming a better person, I'm not really interested. But there is still hope for young Caleb. He can still pull through.

GRANDAM · June 27, 2011 1:20PM

The rules are the same as they have always been.

Published means the set is "Published" in The Registry.

Being open for public viewing is a different matter.

GrandAm

llafoe · June 27, 2011 1:24PM

Caleb provided a screen shot... Published? means the set is "PUBLISHED" in the Registry (per your definition) and Allow the public to view set item details? means that the set is "VIEWABLE" to the Public. I'm not sure what you're arguing?

MidLifeCrisis · June 27, 2011 1:30PM

<< Caleb provided a screen shot... Published? means the set is "PUBLISHED" in the Registry (per your definition) and Allow the public to view set item details? means that the set is "VIEWABLE" to the Public. I'm not sure what you're arguing? >>

I know I'm going to regret jumping in on this thread, but...

How can you have a set in the PCGS registry that is NOT published? What happens if you uncheck that box?

llafoe · June 27, 2011 1:33PM

<< 

<< Caleb provided a screen shot... Published? means the set is "PUBLISHED" in the Registry (per your definition) and Allow the public to view set item details? means that the set is "VIEWABLE" to the Public. I'm not sure what you're arguing? >>

I know I'm going to regret jumping in on this thread, but...

How can you have a set in the PCGS registry that is NOT published? What happens if you uncheck that box? >>

If you uncheck that box, you have your own inventory software.

keyman64 · June 27, 2011 1:38PM

I am arguing the definition of the word "Published". I stand by the dictionary that I have grown to love over the years and it seems everyone else just wants to make up their own definition for words. If something is being shared between a single person and a private company....and shared with no one else, then that does not make the shared item "Published". It makes it confidential information. It would merely be shared with PCGS ONLY, the word PUBLISH does not work here. Just because a person or company wants to twist the meaning of a word, does not make it right. Semantics people...very simple. I understand what Bruce, Caleb, Larry are saying but it does not make it right. The word PUBLISH is not being used properly and it's annoying. That's it. Simple.

llafoe · June 27, 2011 1:49PM

It makes sense to me... The set is published on the website but it's not viewable by the public.

If you're the general public, you can read certain papers that were published as unclassified by the Federal Government (under the FOIA), but if you don't have the proper clearance and the need to know, you won't be able to read other classified papers that are still published. The originator determines the classification... if the Registry participant classifies his set, it's still published; just not viewable by the general public.

Now... I don't like and wish they'd remove the public option... either it's viewable or it's your own private online inventory.

New Registry Award Rules and the Complete U.S. Type Set (1792-1964)

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