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To DH or to not DH
Garabaldi
Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
I know I was born into the AL and that is the league and style I am used to. I would go nuts having to watch a rally get killed by the pitcher most of the times. Nothing has to be more frustrating than having to pull a pitcher early when it is a close game and his pitch count is up because you want to pinch hit a better hitter. Give me the out of shape lug that can hit 25-30 hr's and knock in 90-100 rbi's.
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I agree! Buchholz got injured running the bases last year. No team needs for that to happen.
I remember Ken Holtzman killing some teams, as did Steve Carlton. I remember Carlton killing the Dodgers with his stick.
Kind of added a little excitement to the game back then, but I don't think pitchers spend as much time hitting these days as they
did back in the 70's.
a deft double switch / or not
timely pinch-hit/ or not
or even having a pitcher getting a lead-off hit and being out on the bases for the entire inning on a hot day, racing to home to score a run. then the next batter pops out on the first pitch. will the pitcher be okay or just a sweat ball and get tagged.
if anything does change i think the DH would be universal, though.
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Ralph
<< <i>I don't care for the DH. National League is a far superior product. If Dh is such a good idea, why not do like football and have an offense and a completely different defensive team in the field. >>
Teams could not afford to do that and it would require a 48 man roster.
The dugouts are too small.
It would completely ruin the game.
The DH is here to stay.
Stop interleague play entirely.
Whatever the rule, it should be the same in either league. NL pitchers have a decided advantage when inter-league play happens because they are required to bat when playing normal NL games. The AL pitcher is thus at a disadvantage, but only during inter-league play and post season games when at the NL park.
The DH enables those players whose "time has come", to remain in the game and just swing a bat 3-4 times per game, then sit and wait in the comfort of the dugout for a nice rest till his turn comes again. Equally so for the AL pitcher who can rest and not be concerned with facing a 90+ mph fastball that he's just not used to seeing.
So, what happens if an AL pitcher who is batting, and not used to batting, doesn't get out of the way fast enough and gets hit? What happens if he gets hit in the hands, foot, wherever, that could in fact not only put him on the DL, but could actually end his career? Far too risky IMO for AL pitchers to bat because of their inexperience in the batter's box. AL pitchers simply don't have the bat speed to catch up to pitches...mostly they can hope for a bunt, and on rare occasion they do get a hit, but rare indeed. Didn't Wakefield come up in a key spot yesterday??? And what happend? He swung at pitches way outside and struck out, thus ending a potential big inning for the Red Sox.
I am pro DH...besides, who made the rule that says during inter-league play at NL fields that the DH gets tossed out? It puts the visiting AL team at a distinct disadvantage, whereas allowing the DH puts a dynamic into the game that could also advantage the NL team. After all, the game doesn't get exciting until the ball gets put into play, not watching a dismal performance at the plate by an inept batter. Would you rather see Ortiz walk up to the plate with the bases juiced, or Wakefield?
If you want to truly enjoy the history, strategy, and beauty of a baseball game the way it was meant to be played, the way it's supposed to be played...then the proper way to do it is WITHOUT the DH.
Case closed.
<< <i>I say if all you want out of baseball is more scoring, then go watch a women's softball game.
If you want to truly enjoy the history, strategy, and beauty of a baseball game the way it was meant to be played, the way it's supposed to be played...then the proper way to do it is WITHOUT the DH.
Case closed. >>
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Boring, the game is much better in the AL.
Let the NL play the way they want and if they want to play without the DL that is ok too, but whenever the NL and AL meet the DL is in
existence.
If they choose not to use it then don't but the AL should be able to use it as it is part of their game.
It is too dangerous for the AL pitchers to be put in that position when they have to bat.
Why should the AL be put in that position just because the NL wants it that way.
Let them pick up their toys and go play with themselves.
<< <i>Let the NL play the way they want and if they want to play without the DL that is ok too, but whenever the NL and AL meet the DL is in
existence.
If they choose not to use it then don't but the AL should be able to use it as it is part of their game.
It is too dangerous for the AL pitchers to be put in that position when they have to bat.
Why should the AL be put in that position just because the NL wants it that way.
Let them pick up their toys and go play with themselves. >>
<<< Why should the AL be put in that position just because the NL wants it that way. >>>
Really not a fair statement...the AL changed the rule, not the NL...so the AL put itself in that position.
I guess some fans in the AL don't appreciate the beauty of a well played, strategically managed, low scoring game. Hey, I like hitting and scoring as much as anyone, when it's done the right way.
<< <i>
<< <i>I say if all you want out of baseball is more scoring, then go watch a women's softball game.
If you want to truly enjoy the history, strategy, and beauty of a baseball game the way it was meant to be played, the way it's supposed to be played...then the proper way to do it is WITHOUT the DH.
Case closed. >>
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Boring, the game is much better in the AL. >>
Here ya go...enjoy the games.
http://www.usasoftball.com/folders.asp?uid=1
Well played? I guess it depends on the definition, but the AL has dominated interleague play despite the obvious inequalities already stated above, so clearly they playing better than the NL.
Strategically managed? The double switch is common practice, not some innovative strategic approach, like walking a Barry Bonds with the bases loaded, or hitting the pitcher 8th.
Low scoring? It's only low scoring because the 7-9 hitters on NL teams are atrocious, and it is all set up by the automatic out in the 9th spot.
My biggest gripe about interleague play is the unfairness of it all. The AL teams build their teams with a DH in mind. The Sox play 9 straight ROAD interleague games. Which means one of the best hitters in the AL this year (Oritz) has to sit 6 or 7 games, because there is no room for him on the field.
<< <i><<<I guess some fans in the AL don't appreciate the beauty of a well played, strategically managed, low scoring game.>>>
Well played? I guess it depends on the definition, but the AL has dominated interleague play despite the obvious inequalities already stated above, so clearly they playing better than the NL. >>
I wouldn't mind seeing the recent stats on this. Perhaps the past stats were because the Yankees and later the Red Sox were by far spending the most money and stealing players from other teams, and signing foreign players as well....hence they had the better players giving them an advantage over the NL, skewing the stats.
<< <i>Strategically managed? The double switch is common practice, not some innovative strategic approach, like walking a Barry Bonds with the bases loaded, or hitting the pitcher 8th. >>
Come on now...there's a lot more to it than that as far as strategy.
<< <i>Low scoring? It's only low scoring because the 7-9 hitters on NL teams are atrocious, and it is all set up by the automatic out in the 9th spot. >>
So what...I'd rather see a strategically managed and played say 4 - 2 game, than a zombie managed and played 10 - 5 game.
<< <i>My biggest gripe about interleague play is the unfairness of it all. The AL teams build their teams with a DH in mind. The Sox play 9 straight ROAD interleague games. Which means one of the best hitters in the AL this year (Oritz) has to sit 6 or 7 games, because there is no room for him on the field. >>
Valid point. I happen to enjoy interleague games, but it would be much more enjoyable in my viewpoint without the DH.
I feel that it is more enjoyable with both teams with the DL and is much more fair.
The NL teams have the same advantage that way.
It gives the NL too much of an advantage the other way.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I say if all you want out of baseball is more scoring, then go watch a women's softball game.
If you want to truly enjoy the history, strategy, and beauty of a baseball game the way it was meant to be played, the way it's supposed to be played...then the proper way to do it is WITHOUT the DH.
Case closed. >>
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Boring, the game is much better in the AL. >>
Here ya go...enjoy the games.
http://www.usasoftball.com/folders.asp?uid=1 >>
Strategy? Pitch around the 8 hitter to get to the pitcher? Oh, force them to take the pitcher out an inning earlier than they should to get a better batter up?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I say if all you want out of baseball is more scoring, then go watch a women's softball game.
If you want to truly enjoy the history, strategy, and beauty of a baseball game the way it was meant to be played, the way it's supposed to be played...then the proper way to do it is WITHOUT the DH.
Case closed. >>
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Boring, the game is much better in the AL. >>
Here ya go...enjoy the games.
http://www.usasoftball.com/folders.asp?uid=1 >>
Strategy? Pitch around the 8 hitter to get to the pitcher? Oh, force them to take the pitcher out an inning earlier than they should to get a better batter up? >>
Yes, and more...that's the way the game was meant to be played. The best summer game ever invented - it didn't need to be fixed and fortunately the NL didn't decide to fix it...like the greedy junior circuit owners did.
<< <i>the 7-9 hitters on NL teams are atrocious >>
There's an obvious difference between the #9 hitters in the AL & NL, but the 7 & 8 hitters are virtually equal.
Ron
At least the American League hasn't gone to metal bats...yet.
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Ralph
<< <i>Imagine if the AL had the DH when Babe Ruth was pitching. >>
He would have been known as the Sultan of Pitch. LOL
My last word on this (and I know some of you are glad) is I still feel if we are going to continue playing with the NL rules then
we need to stop this foolish interleague play and get back to just the world series to settle who is better. The AL is set up to
play one way and the NL is set up to play the other way, so leave it at that and get on with the season. I personally hate
interleague play and a lot of others agree with me. It was fun when first started but not any more.
This is pretty much the crux of the issue. Baseball has to be only sport in history that not only does nothing to try to create a level playing field, they go out of their way to INCREASE the number of inequalities that exist. It's mindboggling.
I just think that since the union will NEVER allow abolishment of the DH because it takes jobs away from the Hafners' and Ortiz's of the world, that the NL should just bite the bullet and adopt the DH. Let's face it - at this point, the "purity" of the game is pretty much ruined. Money has overtaken everything, the NL rule of the pitchers hitting is pretty much the last "pure" part of the game remaining.
These pitchers are being paid millions of dollars to PITCH. Anything that they do that takes their focus and energy off of PITCHING, is a bad thing, in my eyes.
I certainly appreciate the outcry to keep the pitcher in the lineup, I just think it is one of those things that after watching a DH come to the plate for a season or two, most NL fans will lose the bitterness of having their game "ruined". All it will take is the few instances where the #9 hitter extends a rally, and most will be saying "thank god we didn't have the pitcher hitting there, we wouldn't have scored those extra 3 runs we needed to win the game".
<< <i>It is not just a coincidence that pitchers are below average hitters. >>
Actually, a majority of the high drafted pitchers are pretty good at the plate. Once they hit A ball, pitching becomes their only priority and the minimal bat time is during BP.
Regarding potential injuries, the opposing team knows better and you rarely see a pitcher get hit. It's one of those unwritten rules: If you buzz our pitcher, yours will get plunked.
Baseball has gotten so specialized and starting pitchers are hurling less and less innings and making more and more money for doing so... I also like the idea of seeing greats past their fielding prime stepping up to the plate like Jim Thome, Hank Aaron, Harmon Killebrew, Paul Molitor, Dave Winfield, Frank Thomas --- I'm sure I could add another 100 to the list.
KEEP THE DH!
Erik
<< <i>If pitchers had averages like a catcher, I would not have a problem with it. The majority of them do not take it too serious or you would have better hitting pitchers. It is not just a coincidence that pitchers are below average hitters. >>
It's not really surprising to me that they can't hit well. Pitchers are in MLB solely because they can pitch, so what are the odds that they will ALSO be able to hit as well as the players that are in MLB mostly because they are good hitters? Not very good. Pitchers can hit about as well as non-pitchers can pitch.
After all the pitchers are athletes and I believe they can handle a little sports activity. It is no more unrational to think that a pitcher should be able to hit than to think that a 1st baseman should be able to hit. They usually have batting practice before every game and the pitchers should be required to particpate.
Ron
<< <i>The Sox play 9 straight ROAD interleague games. Which means one of the best hitters in the AL this year (Oritz) has to sit 6 or 7 games, because there is no room for him on the field. >>
Maybe, just maybe, Ortiz should lose a little weight and learn to play 1B again so he can play all the games - just like his teammates.
Tabe
<< <i>My last word on this (and I know some of you are glad) is I still feel if we are going to continue playing with the NL rules then
we need to stop this foolish interleague play and get back to just the world series to settle who is better. The AL is set up to
play one way and the NL is set up to play the other way, so leave it at that and get on with the season. I personally hate
interleague play and a lot of others agree with me. It was fun when first started but not any more. >>
Someone should start a thread on interleague play.
Ron
<< <i>
<< <i>The Sox play 9 straight ROAD interleague games. Which means one of the best hitters in the AL this year (Oritz) has to sit 6 or 7 games, because there is no room for him on the field. >>
Maybe, just maybe, Ortiz should lose a little weight and learn to play 1B again so he can play all the games - just like his teammates.
Tabe >>
It is not his fielding that is a problem. The problem is where to you put A-Gon, both Papi and A-Gon are really only 1st baseman. They do not want to risk putting Gonzalez in RF.
I think more injuries are caused by pitchers pulling muscles either swinging a bat or running the bases than getting hit with pitches. If I'm a GM paying Roy Halladay $20m a year to PITCH, I would cringe every time he steps into the batter's box. There's a 1 in 6 chance that something good is going to happen (either a walk or hit, based on 2011 pitchers OBP of .169). The bad things that can happen range from making an out, to pulling a hamstring running the bases, or straining an oblique swinging a bat. The downside is EXPONENTIALLY worse than the upside.
<<<Maybe, just maybe, Ortiz should lose a little weight and learn to play 1B again so he can play all the games - just like his teammates.>>>
That's not the point. The point is, for the most part, the DH is one of the top 3 hitters on an AL team. AL teams plan to have that guy in the lineup. When that bat (or the bat he replaces in the lineup) gets taken away, they've lost a little bit of what makes their offense click.