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One of the most UNUSUAL numismatic items I own!
STONE
Posts: 15,275 ✭
I recently acquired this piece from one of the authers of the Early United States Dime book.
It is an Electrotype of a 1798 B-23 Reverse Bust Dollar, apparently created between 1835 and1840 (as per the sellers information).
The Reverse impressions appears to be on Copper, while the opposite side on Tin (or other lightweight metal).
The Electrotype is a thin disk with no appreciable width and I would say in very nice condition.
If anyone can direct me to more information on [Bust Dollar] Electrotypes from the 19th century I would like to learn more about them -
why they may have been created, what use they served, and possibly who was creating them, etc.
It is an Electrotype of a 1798 B-23 Reverse Bust Dollar, apparently created between 1835 and1840 (as per the sellers information).
The Reverse impressions appears to be on Copper, while the opposite side on Tin (or other lightweight metal).
The Electrotype is a thin disk with no appreciable width and I would say in very nice condition.
If anyone can direct me to more information on [Bust Dollar] Electrotypes from the 19th century I would like to learn more about them -
why they may have been created, what use they served, and possibly who was creating them, etc.
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I would send John Kraljevich an email. He carries 19th-century electrotypes in inventory from time to time, and is seen many of these items.
WE
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>Winston,
I would send John Kraljevich an email. He carries 19th-century electrotypes in inventory from time to time, and is seen many of these items.
WE >>
Thanks for that lead WE
From Wikipedia:
<< <i>Electrotyping is an application of the art of electroplating to typography, used for making duplicate plates for relief printing (letterpress). In copying engraved plates for printing purposes, copper may be deposited upon the original plate, the surface of which is first rendered slightly dirty, by means of a weak solution of wax in turpentine or otherwise, to prevent adhesion. The reversed plate thus produced is then stripped from the first and used as cathode in its turn, with the result that even the finest lines of the original are faithfully reproduced. The electrolyte commonly contains about 1.5 lb (0.68 kg) of copper sulfate and 2 lb (0.91 kg) of strong sulfuric acid per gallon, and is worked with a current density of about 10 amperes per sq. ft., which should give a thickness of 0.000563 in. of copper per hour.
Moulds for reproducing plates or art-work are often taken in plaster, beeswax mixed with Venice turpentine, fusible metal, or gutta-percha, and the surface being rendered conductive by powdered graphite, copper is deposited upon it evenly throughout. For statuary, and "undercut" work generally, an elastic mould of glue and treacle (80:20 parts) may be used; the mould, when set, is waterproofed by immersion in a solution of potassium bichromate followed by exposure to sunlight, or in some other way. The best results, however, are obtained by taking a wax cast from the elastic mould, and then from this a plaster mould, which may be waterproofed with wax, black-leaded, and used as cathode. In art-work of this nature the principal points to be looked to in depositing are the electrical connections to the cathode, the shape of the anode (to secure uniformity of deposition), the circulation of the electrolyte, and, in some cases, the means for escape of anode oxygen. Silver electrotyping is occasionally resorted to for special purposes. >>
Firstmint gave us a fun electrotype story posted here:
<< <i>Just a small addition to the Ford example...
Schnur sold the coin to Ford in May 1961, but it was Ford's sidekick, Gerow Paul Franklin who bought the coin from Ford at the same show. Ford thought it was a restrike. Since there was already a few of these in the New Netherland's inventory, Ford wasn't too concerned about the one that he just bought from Schnur.
Franklin, who hadn't owned one of these before, took it home, studied and weighed it, and found it to be more grains than the Scott restrikes. After telling Ford what it weighed, both men became convinced that it was one of the four lost originals.
Franklin sold the coin back to Ford the following year, for a substantial (but publicly unrecorded) amount. Shortly after this, on January 1, 1963, the Franklin family moved to Scottsdale, Az.
There's an electrotype floating around that was made in 1955, reportedly by an unamed New York jeweler that was a friend of Franklin's (possibly Peter Rosa). One of the originals was owned by Abe Kosoff at the time. At a coin show in Chicago during the first week of May, Ford asked Kosoff to "borrow" the coin for photography at the ANS, and that he would return it to Abe the following week at the show in New York.
Turns out that Ford reportedly had Franklin make a copy, and the copy was given to Kosoff. Kosoff not expecting anything didn't realize that Ford had fooled him with a phony.
Several weeks later, Ford gave back the original. Kosoff wanted Ford to destroy the electro, but Ford wouldn't do it. Ford & Kosoff didn't exactly see eye-to-eye.
I have the 2x2 envelope that Ford gave to Kosoff with the electro inside. When it was returned, Ford wrote, "Gave Kosoff big thrill". Yeah, right!
Lots of Ford stories will be in the Ford/Franklin Hoard book when it gets printed. Still waiting for Dave Bowers to finish his part. >>
to answer this part of your question, i will say that many electrotypes are in the possession of museums around the world......it was much more cost effective to have an obverse electrotype and a reverse electrotype displayed together so that both sides were visible than to have to go out on the open market and purchase two matched examples for display
it would not surprise me if yours originally had a silver wash on it that has since worn off
www.brunkauctions.com
TD
<< <i>The Mint did make electrotype copies of 1804's.
TD >>
And that caught my attention when wondering if they may have made electrotype's of other dates as well.
Savoyspecial - yes, I also heard of this and was expecting this response. What I am curious about is the
fact that this piece is at least 40 years old, and I don't know which museums would have had these earlier
than this date, although I suspect several museums did.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Edited to add - A German scientist, Moritz Jacobi invented galvanoplast (electrotyping) in 1837 in St, Petersburg.
In America, Joseph Adams was successful with Jacobi's process in 1839. The earliest electro's from the U.S. Mint began around 1841.
The 1842 "Mint Manual" book by Eckfeldt & Dubois had electrotypes of coins from the Mint Cabinet illustrated because Joseph Saxton used the medal ruling machine to make machined engravings of coins.
Most of the time, electroplating was done for both sides of the coin.