Kitco in trouble

derryb · June 9, 2011 10:57PM

Kitco Charged With Massive Tax Fraud Scheme, Business Viability In Question

OPA · June 9, 2011 11:06PM

That must have been the reason for their "power outage" that was posted on their website

roadrunner · June 9, 2011 11:11PM

Not a good time to be an unallocated bullion account holder with them. Once again, physical in hand trumps anything else.

roadrunner

OPA · June 9, 2011 11:19PM

<< Not a good time to be an unallocated bullion account holder with them. Once again, physical in hand trumps anything else.

roadrunner >>

That's a big 10 4...

Anyone who's got funds in one of their pool accounts..time to cash in....Oh wait, the Canadian Postal Workers are out on strike. I suppose you can pay the FedEx fee to have it mailed to the US

PerryHall · June 9, 2011 11:39PM

<< 

<< Not a good time to be an unallocated bullion account holder with them. Once again, physical in hand trumps anything else.

roadrunner >>

That's a big 10 4...

Anyone who's got funds in one of their pool accounts..time to cash in....Oh wait, the Canadian Postal Workers are out on strike. I suppose you can pay the FedEx fee to have it mailed to the US >>

Agree. Get out before their assets are frozen. Paper gold will never be as good a physical gold in your hand.

streeter · June 9, 2011 11:46PM

Oh well, we will miss the pretty charts.

in an earlier thread, somebody asked what would negatively impact metals. I forgot about this one

Coulport · June 9, 2011 11:49PM

So where else does one go for 'live' PM quotes?

secondrepublic · June 9, 2011 11:50PM

If I had a dollar for every time I've heard the warning "hold on to your physical"..... Obviously a lot of people don't. It's really astounding that given how little space gold/silver takes up, people would rather have someone else hold it for them. Get a safe deposit box! Or a safe. Or dig a deep hole under your basement floor. Sheesh.

storm888 · June 9, 2011 11:53PM

I would certainly get my money out of the pools QUICKLY, but I also
understand that the Kitco "scheme" was simply a reaction to the vile
socialist policies of an overbearing and corrupt government.

mhammerman · June 9, 2011 11:58PM

Yep, 2nd...year after year folks here have said "Hold your own physical metal." Oh well, one more time...Hold your own physical metal, period.

Man, I'm thinking of all those people with kitco pool accounts...toast. Unfortunate turn of fate.

secondrepublic · June 10, 2011 12:03AM

There's a lot of wisdom on this Forum... for those who listen!

storm888 · June 10, 2011 12:07AM

<< Yep, 2nd...year after year folks here have said "Hold your own physical metal." Oh well, one more time...Hold your own physical metal, period.

Man, I'm thinking of all those people with kitco pool accounts...toast. Unfortunate turn of fate. >>

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Obviously, folks should hold their own metals; tho, holding large quantities
of silver can be weight/space problematic.

I very much doubt that the pool proceeds are at certain risk, but I would
bail quickly anyway.

ALL socialist govts ALWAYS have an interest in making war against vendors
of competing "money." The govt's/govts' war on Kitco has been long ongoing;
the current action is just another shot in that war.

RobertS · June 10, 2011 12:10AM

This is a sad turn of events, I hope those with accounts are able to get their cash. I fear there will be a domino effect

Recently for a split second I thought about opening one of these account after reading about them on this forum. Thank God I did not.

jmski52 · June 10, 2011 12:12AM

I only have one thing to add.

Does everyone really believe that JPMorgue should be trusted as the custodian, to back their ETFs with physical metal?

I lied. I have something else to add. What happens to the stock market when QE2 stops pumping? I wouldn't want to be holding that bag when she blows!

Meltdown · June 10, 2011 12:16AM

Wow. This will get ugly.

TheBigB · June 10, 2011 1:02AM

It will be interesting to see how this story evolves, Kitco is strongly disputing the allegations over at its forum.

derryb · June 10, 2011 1:09AM

<< Anyone who's got funds in one of their pool accounts..time to cash in....Oh wait, the Canadian Postal Workers are out on strike. I suppose you can pay the FedEx fee to have it mailed to the US >>

The best and quickest way to cash a kitco pool account is to place a sell order over the phone and request check be sent to address on record. Converting to physical and then requesting shipping causes delays and has added costs.

57loaded · June 10, 2011 1:15AM

<< What happens to the stock market when QE2 stops pumping? I wouldn't want to be holding that bag when she blows! >>

i think we are seeing a precursor today.

goingbroke · June 10, 2011 1:29AM

Might be a trend starter! I found these two comments-by duo
on Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:36
#1357797

I had an APMEX order "shipped to the wrong address". Now they want me to sign some form to get it shipped again. This is after dozens of orders with no problems. Something is up.

Login or register to post comments
by TideFighter
on Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:43
#1357840

"I had an APMEX order "shipped to the wrong address". Now they want me to sign some form to get it shipped again. This is after dozens of orders with no problems. Something is up."

Me too!! What the hell is going on. Damn right the hue is getting darker. I'm a platinum level buyer and had to go thru a verification to get order shipped.

DoubleEagle59 · June 10, 2011 1:31AM

It's just their Montreal office.

Doesn't surprise me one bit.

Montreal, Thunder Bay Ontario and Chicago have one thing in common with who runs the town

OPA · June 10, 2011 1:35AM

Kitco's response

"Kitco Categorically Denies all Revenu Quebec Allegations"

You can read their response on Kitco's home page under: latest press releases

gsa1fan · June 10, 2011 1:35AM

I thought QE2 was over? Does it go to end of June 2011?

Goingbroke, what does AMPEX have to do with Kitco?

AMPEX shipping woes probably high volume & or summer help in shipping department.

Spooly · June 10, 2011 1:36AM

Any company that would keep Jon Nadler on the payroll has to be a scam front!

OPA · June 10, 2011 1:47AM

<< I thought QE2 was over? Does it go to end of June 2011?

Goingbroke, what does AMPEX have to do with Kitco?

AMPEX shipping woes probably high volume & or summer help in shipping department. >>

Maybe he thought he was posting to this thread

APMEX issue

MrOrganic · June 10, 2011 1:52AM

<< So where else does one go for 'live' PM quotes? >>

coininfo.com

roadrunner · June 10, 2011 1:57AM

The FED is supposed to post a POMO schedule at 2 pm today which covers the rest of June. The current schedule ended yesterday.
www.finviz.com has PM's futures prices that are only several minutes old.

Equities have been sliding since the start of May so they've sniffed out the end of QE2 long ago.

roadrunner

derryb · June 10, 2011 2:03AM

<< What happens to the stock market when QE2 stops pumping? I wouldn't want to be holding that bag when she blows >>

Markets will blow because the Fed wants them to. By ending QE2 the Fed purposely creates a panicing market atmosphere that will result in most everyone screaming for the Fed to pump money. This way the Fed can resume monetizing the debt but this time to everyone's delight. In the past the Fed has taken a lot of heat and criticism for it's similar actions. The brilliant Fed will swoop in and save the day.Consider it a Public Relations ploy.

mrearlygold · June 10, 2011 2:12AM

Wow!

CaptHenway · June 10, 2011 2:14AM

A Canadian newspaper's version of the story:
.
Windsor Star linky

CaptHenway · June 10, 2011 2:15AM

<< Kitco's response

Press reelease >>

Link does not work.

CaptHenway · June 10, 2011 2:17AM

Here's a site in India with good spots, though it doesn't have the pretty charts:
.
India Bullion Desk linky
.
I like the pretty charts.

TD

cone10 · June 10, 2011 2:27AM

kitco response

storm888 · June 10, 2011 2:31AM

.

PR link is entered wrong.

Body Copy:

PRESS RELEASE

For immediate publication

KITCO CATEGORICALLY DENIES ALL OF REVENU QUÉBÉC’S ALLEGATIONS

Montreal, June 9, 2011 Contrary to Revenu Québec’s allegations in a press release published today,
Kitco Metals Inc. (Kitco) has never participated in any tax fraud, nor has it ever carried out any fictitious
transactions. In all respects, Kitco vigorously contests all aspects of Revenu Québec’s investigation.
Mindful of protecting its irreproachable reputation, Kitco has mandated attorneys, of the law firm of
Gowling Lafleur Henderson, to evaluate all available recourses with regards to the allegations of Revenu
Québec.

Earlier today Kitco, filed and presented a motion at the Superior Court of Québec to have an interim
receiver appointed so that it may continue its normal operations under the supervision of the accounting
firm RSM Richter (Mr. Gilles Robillard, partner). This action was taken in the interest of the corporation, of
its clients and of its business partners to allow for the time required to vigorously contest Revenu
Québec’s unfounded claims. As always, Kitco will respect all of its commitments towards its clients and
business partners.

Kitco buys precious metals scrap and pays the suppliers sales taxes on these purchases for which Kitco
receives a tax credit. It is the responsibility of these suppliers to pay back the sales taxes to Revenu
Québec. Revenu Québec alleges that some of these suppliers have not remitted the taxes paid to them.
Revenu Québec is unjustly holding Kitco responsible for the unremitted taxes, which led to the issuance
of the tax assessments.

Kitco is vigorously opposing these tax assessments. Kitco has respected all applicable laws and by-laws
since the founding of the company over 30 years ago.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I tend to believe Kitco's defense is largely true and accurate.

Those revenuers are gutter-trash gangsters; always looking
for more money to steal and redistribute to themselves and
the parasitic peasants that keep the criminal bureaucracy in
biznez.

Pokermandude · June 10, 2011 4:42AM

Not good news.

I just cashed out all my pool holdings with them. I got a call from them within 20 minutes to confirm my transaction, and also to remind me of the looming Canada post union strike (I am having my funds sent by check, within Canada). Looks like their operations haven't slowed down any yet, a good sign.

In the end, I think they'll pull through this fine, but I'm not willing to risk my own dollars on it!

On a side note.. Where's a good place these days for a Canadian to pick up some platinum at a decently low premium? I was only using my pool account for platinum to dodge the crazy premiums it takes to buy physical plat.

derryb · June 10, 2011 4:52AM

<< On a side note.. Where's a good place these days for a Canadian to pick up some platinum at a decently low premium? I was only using my pool account for platinum to dodge the crazy premiums it takes to buy physical plat. >>

Tulving has 1/4 oz. plat eagles at spot plus $22 and 1/2 plat eagles at spot plus $39 ea. Minimum order is ten oz. Free overnight shipping, $15 credit toward wire transfer (mention it when you phone in the order and they deduct from your total).

Pokermandude · June 10, 2011 4:55AM

<< 

<< On a side note.. Where's a good place these days for a Canadian to pick up some platinum at a decently low premium? I was only using my pool account for platinum to dodge the crazy premiums it takes to buy physical plat. >>

Tulving has 1/4 oz. plat eagles at spot plus $22 and 1/2 plat eagles at spot plus $39 ea. Minimum order is ten oz. Free overnight shipping, $15 credit toward wire transfer (mention it when you phone in the order and they deduct from your total). >>

Oh how I wish I had $20k for platinum. Tulving doesn't ship to Canada either though

bestmr · June 10, 2011 5:24AM

Yeah, my sister lives in Canada and a lot of places she buys stuff from in the US don't ship to Canada either. So she ships them here and we either mail them to her or bring them up when we go visit. You might be able to try something similar if you have some trusted friends in the US.

jmski52 · June 10, 2011 5:36AM

For platinum, you could shop CNI or Apmex. I would shy away from NWT Mint. I've got a 1/10 oz. NGC MS-69 plat that sucks for MS-69 that I need to put up on BST.

Pokermandude · June 10, 2011 5:45AM

I'll have to check out CNI, haven't heard of them before. I've tried NWTM before, they were okay (decently priced, good shipping price to Canada too) but the wait was quite long.

APMEX is the devil I know. They've jacked up their premiums quite a lot lately, especially on smaller orders (<500oz for silver). I doubt I'll be shopping with them again any time soon.

For silver I've priced out different places and Gainesville looks to be one of the best for me. Small premiums and reasonable shipping. Doesn't look like they have any platinum in stock though.

OPA · June 10, 2011 6:54AM

<< 

<< Kitco's response
Link does not work. >>

Try it now....Kitco's response

piecesofme · June 10, 2011 8:36AM

Support your local B&M! Build a relationship with someone you can actually see and talk with in person, and it will go a long way.

streeter · June 10, 2011 8:53AM

a little off topic but a lot of small B/M in SoCal do not like platinum. A few single items are very slow movers at times. A place I go to every so often just sold it below spot to a local jeweler.

jmski52 · June 10, 2011 10:10AM

Oh, I forgot - Silvertowne has been very good to deal with both buying & selling bullion at fair prices.

secondrepublic · June 10, 2011 10:24AM

The title of of this thread reminds me of that line in "It's a Wonderful Life" about George being in trouble.

Course, I don't think anyone around here is going to pass around a basket to collect money for them.

Bear · June 10, 2011 10:30AM

No one can be trusted to hold my gold. I don't even trust the Government

to hold the supposed National gold at Fort Knox. We havent seen it in years,

we haven't audited it in years for all we know, the gold could be in China.

OPA · June 10, 2011 11:47AM

<< No one can be trusted to hold my gold. I don't even trust the Government

to hold the supposed National gold at Fort Knox. We havent seen it in years,

we haven't audited it in years for all we know, the gold could be in China. >>

Bear ... FYI..It gets audited once a year & it's all there. My brother used to work for the Mint & that was one of his duties. PS. It may not all belong to us, but it's still there.

OPA · June 10, 2011 11:51AM

<< I tend to believe Kitco's defense is largely true and accurate. >>

Socialism at it's best.

piecesofme · June 10, 2011 9:48PM

Whether it's true or not, the point is that this can't happen if you own your pm's in the physical form.
Worst thing that could happen is it gets stolen, but that's what insurance is for. Can you insure what you don't physically have (when it comes to smething like this)? No.

OPA · June 10, 2011 10:11PM

Good point ... but you keep forgetting one major expense in owning physical....what are the insurance premiums per $100K, $200k and so on? Most home-owner policies don't even cover bullion over $1k........

CaptHenway · June 10, 2011 11:26PM

Before we sold that gold bullion collection for a customer a year and a half ago, I went to see it. He had roughly 3,800 ounces of gold bars on display in his living room.........
.
He also had a pretty darn good security system!
.
TD

piecesofme · June 11, 2011 1:00AM

Good point ... but you keep forgetting one major expense in owning physical....what are the insurance premiums per $100K, $200k and so on? Most home-owner policies don't even cover bullion over $1k

Mine does, but you're right, the rates are insane. One could invest in a heavy duty safe depending on how much you think you need to protect it. Just sayin, i think there's less chance of something bad happening owing physical. When you don't physically own it, you're really not in control of it, kind of like the way we like to think we are with a 401k

...which I have recently come to feel is a scam.
It's my $, right? So why can't I invest totally and completely in what i want to with it? A 401k only lets you go so far, which I understand is the purpose of it, you don't want to gamble with what is supposed to be future "guaranteed" earnings, but we know nothings guaranteed.
I have recently taken a loan on a portion of my 401k (55% which is the max. loan they will let me have...again, am i fully in control of my 401k when they will only let me at 55% of what is MINE) to very strictly purchase physical pm's right now because I believe silver is doing nothing more than dipping a bit. There is nothing in my 401k that will allow me to do this on paper even if i did want to own pm's on paper.
I've been called silly for doing so by some family and friends for doing this. The book on it is no where near complete on this venture I tell them. Talk to me in 3 years. I've bet every one of them that I will make more with my money doing this than what my 401k can offer...no one will take the bet. I then tell them, I know it's taking a chance, but I strongly feel it's worth taking at this moment in time.
I realize I just got a little ot, but hey, I think it's something to consider.

Kitco in trouble

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