A new idea for PCGS to consider

Bear

As for MS coins, we only have PL, Cameo and DMPL for the Morgan Dollars.

What would be the difficulty expanding that concept for other type coins.

It would surely impact the market and collecting as well as values , just as

the Plus Grade is now doing. Perhaps such a new grading concept is down

the road, but innovation and change, is what keeps coin collecting exciting.

llafoe

I was happy with BU, Ch BU and Gem BU

FullCameo

Proof coins need a new system all together IMO.

shish

A Very Wise Bear indeed, what can be done to urge, influence, or petition PCGS to grant this request by it's members?

golfer72

<< <i>I was happy with BU, Ch BU and Gem BU >>

shish

Certainly it was a lot simpler back then. I'm very thankful I was a young collector enjoying coins and learning how to grade them regardless of which point system the market uses. For better or worse I don't think it's realistic to think the market will return to the old system of grading. In fact if history is any indication it will continue to evolve and perhaps get even more complex in the future.

Bochiman

Change, for change's sake, isn't always the right thing.

Often times, people try to get changes for their own monetary gains

and not for the benefit of others, nor for the hobby at large.

I don't think there is enough population in each of the potential markets

to warrant such a change.

Innovation and change are not what keep coin collectiging exciting, but rather

a consistency of knowing what you know today will be valid tomorrow and you

can make plans to grow your collection and knowledge and not just submit and resubmit

everytime someone else wants to make money due to a change.

Bear

It is called good business. However, If a MS type coin is CAMEO, I would really

like to have it labeled as such. It is not that big a change. If we wanted to

collect coins as we did in the1800sn then we would have no TPG, Coin shows,

coin magazines ,ect, ect. Change is not necessarily bad if it results in progress

that is good.

shish

You make some good points, I have a question and a few comments.

In your opinion what population is required to warrant this change? 50, 500, 5,000 coins?

I know many collector in favor of these changes and I assure you it's not about monetary gains. Rather it's about accurately describing the characteristics of a coins surface.
Exactly like Morgan dollars, and exactly like NGC and ANACS have been doing for many years.

These designations have been tested and accepted by the market, They have not only stood the test of time they have continued to grown in popularity.

Bear

That is the issue. I do not know and can not even venture a guess.

I suppose we will never know until some TPG start the program.

Bochiman

No, I really still do think it is about the money.
If you can't enjoy a coin for what it is, without something written, as an opinion, by a TPGS, and you NEED that validation from them, then I don't see how it is about anything other than the money.

Is there anyone who has a PL Jefferson nickel who enjoys it as such, without the slab stating it? I think there are. A coin is what it is. To get more writing by the TPGS is about the money, imho.

We have Roosevelt sets. There are already FB and non-FB. There are also liners. Toss in my designations to bifurcate that market more, increase the prices artificially (remember, the coin hasn't changed at all, just the label at that point), and then tell me it isn't about the money.

Same with Franklins and just about any other series.

It's about the money and/or ego and no longer about enjoying the coin for what it is. And, to try to compare it to coin collecting in the 1800s is really stretching it and not adding anything constructive to the argument.

Bear

Call it ego , a need for exactitude or believing that such a definition

would have a positive effect on coin valuation. I would like to see it

happen. However, that is just my own opinion and I can certainly understand

folks, who would rather decline more complex grading systems.

TahoeDale

I personally do not see the need for another designation for MS coins. While there are many that could qualify as PL surfaces, the next thing that will happen is TDN will lobby for and get Full Strike on his Seated dollars.

Then he will want full stars on his Early dollars.

Let's leave PL and DMPL for the Morgans.

COALPORTER

how does one lobby?

shish

I respect your opinions and I understand your concerns. I'm considering discussing this topic with several of the PCGS experts at the Baltimore show, time permitting perhaps they will share a little of their wisdom with me.

leothelyon

In your opinion what population is required to warrant this change? 50, 500, 5,000 coins?

If that many collectors had voiced the same sentiments as the bear, there would be no discussion on the matter.


Leo

astrorat

I bet the attempt at the next big grading (i.e., pricing) innovation will be for a 100 point grading scale. I see the "plus" grading as a first blush into fractional grading of MS/PF coins by PCGS. It's all a matter of "evergreening" your product to keep the consumer at your doorstep. Some of the most brilliant folks at evergreening products are the pharmaceutical companies (who "evergreen" a drug when the current drug product is about to go off patent).

PCGS was brilliant with the development of Registry Sets ... geez, that idea must have come from divine means. Get people with "huge egos" and "fat wallets" to buy labels attached to coins so they can compete with each other. It's fun for the competitive collector and lucrative for PCGS. What a magnificent idea! (Seriously, I hope who ever first uttered that concept earned a serious bonus that year!). PCGS "evergreened" their grading services through the development of Registry Sets.

The next major "evergreen" action will be changing the grading system to achieve "more accurate and precise" grading. The Sheldon 70 point system is "old school," our new 100 point system is better, faster, and stays fresher longer (or is "1 louder" for all you Spinal Tap fans). Millions of coins will migrate back to the holy grading land for reeducation, er, regrading. PCGS will resolidify themselves as King of Coin Mountain and shareholders (me included!) of Collectors Universe will smile.

Edited for grammar...

NotSure