first paypal problem-chargeback {LOSER}
jivan
Posts: 1,009 ✭
well this put a damper on my morning....notified of a 47.00 chargeback...quick details...sold an item of clothing that was discolored {carhartt work pants}..fully desribed as such, with a few pics to show in full detail.....buyer is unhappy... i offer 20.00 back or full refund with return of item....she opts for the 20.00 partial refund and it is sent.... this takes place 12/21/10/.......she thanks me... now, this morning, i get this for q 47.00 chargeback..unauthorized use of credit card.....no shipping record anymore after 6 months but not all that important in that she is not claiming she never received item.. i responded to the payapl dispute center but am a bit bummed.....thanks for letting me rant ..............................SO TODAY I GET AN EMAIL TELLING ME THAT I LOST THE CASE.....call paypal and the guy tells me that pp is still fighting for me and that so far, it cost me 1.00 more on pp's behalf to fight credit card company... insane or what..lol... i guess it's back to the 99 cent wendy menu again...
always looking for 1969 graded basketball
0
Comments
That is pretty routine conduct for the subhuman trash that EBAY has allowed
to take over its site.
Tho equity and reason demand that sellers prevail in such fraudulent CBs, the
odds of them doing so are never more than 50/50. Such claims are easy to
defeat when a regular merchant account is in play, but VERY difficult when PP
is the "merchant of record."
Your partial refund - almost always a mistake to grant - should show in your PP
control panel. If you entered tracking info in either EBAY/PP, it should also still
be available. If the CRIMINAL left FB, that is, obviously, still there. None of that
is dispositive to the FRAUDULENT claim, but it will help you construct a good
timeline of the thief's bad conduct.
You MAY have automatic "protection," if you followed the PP TOS; maybe not,
since PP/EBAY constantly violate their own TOS in UAU claims. Be sure to cite
the relevant PP-TOS in any follow-up pleadings.
............................
If your sales volume is sufficient, you might consider getting a REAL merchant
account. Knowledgeable sellers can shred most fraudulent claims, when they
are able to fight them directly.
.................
There is now improving organic traffic on both ETSY and BONANZA. Both sites
are militant in their defense of sellers against bad "buyers."
since PP/EBAY constantly violate their own TOS in UAU claims. Be sure to cite
the relevant PP-TOS in any follow-up pleadings.
PayPal's seller protection against Items Not Received claims would not apply here because the charge back is for unauthorized use. The seller will only win if the information he provides to PayPal to have them "fight" the dispute is sufficient enough to be accepted by the buyer's credit card company.
Since the charge back is for $47 I have a feeling that you didn't issue the $20 partial refund against the $47 payment so if that was sent separately then you'll also lose the $20 if you lose the case.
"Protection" against UAU is in play if:
Basic Requirements:
You must ship the item to the shipping address on the Transaction Details Page.
You must respond to PayPal's requests for documentation and other information in a timely manner.
The item must be a physical, tangible good that can be shipped.
Your primary residence, as listed in your Account, must be in the United States.
The payment must be marked "eligible" or "partially eligible" for PayPal Seller protection on the Transaction Details Page.
You must have a Proof of Delivery as described below in Section 11.4.
You must ship the item within 7 Days of receipt of payment. Or, if the payment is for pre-ordered or made-to-order goods, shipment is required within the timeframe specified in your item listing.
Unauthorized Transactions Additional Requirements:
The payment must be marked "eligible" for PayPal Seller protection on the Transaction Details Page.
You must have a Proof of Shipment or a Proof of Delivery.
.......................................................................
In my experience, 90% of the sellers issuing partial refunds do so incorrectly.
They issue such refunds outside of the TDP and are, thus, unable to prove
they refunded. This allows for double-dipping by the CRIMINALS. Sellers faced
with such FRAUD, should ALWAYS claim double-dipping --- even if they cannot
prove it.
<< <i>A buyer has 60 days to file an Unauthorized Transaction case with PayPal. If the seller followed all the rules and has all proof of delivery requirements the PayPal Seller Protection kicks in. If the buyer bypasses PayPal and files a case of Unauthorized Transaction with their credit card company then you're out of luck if PayPal doesn't win the dispute with the buyer's credit card company. >>
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The problem is that PP usually doesn't even try to win. They roll over easy.
Notwithstanding any fine print in the credit-card UA's, crooked "buyers"
can file - and win - CBs years after the sale.
This means that ALL transaction records should be archived FOREVER.
..........................
Aside from PP's lackadaisical attitude, the problem is that most fights
are simply not worth the seller's time and effort. SCAMMING "buyers"
rely on that fact.
Shane
To everyone:
NEVER KEEP A SINGLE CENT IN YOUR PAYPAL KEEP EVERY SINGLE CENT OF IT IN YOUR BANK ACCOUNT...
<< <i>I just sold a card for $1600+. I got USPS insurance and signature confirmation. The card should get to it's destination either today or tomorrow. I have no reason to believe that this will not be a perfect transaction. However, what if the buyer claims a chargeback for unauthorized use? Are you guys telling me that I might not win that dispute? If so, that is utterly ridiculous. >>
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If you followed PP's terms, you should be fine if the buyer files
a UAU claim.
If you did not follow PP's terms, you would almost certainly lose
such a claim.
..........
When a claim is filed long after the sale, PP is generally disinclined
to fight.
ANY dealings with PP are dangerous for sellers, but it is almost
impossible to do biznez without PP; unless a seller does high
volume, it is hard to justify the expense of a REAL merchant accont.
With a REAL merchant account, the seller is the "merchant of record"
and can fight and win most CBs. PP simply has NO incentive to fight
bogus CBs; their money is ONLY at risk if the seller vanishes. (PP will
pursue vanishing sellers to the ends of the earth.)
<< <i>the problem is that most fights are simply not worth the ticketed drivers' time and effort. SCAMMING local governments and their police departments rely on that fact. >>
fixed
<< <i>
<< <i>I just sold a card for $1600+. I got USPS insurance and signature confirmation. The card should get to it's destination either today or tomorrow. I have no reason to believe that this will not be a perfect transaction. However, what if the buyer claims a chargeback for unauthorized use? Are you guys telling me that I might not win that dispute? If so, that is utterly ridiculous. >>
//////////////////////
If you followed PP's terms, you should be fine if the buyer files
a UAU claim.
If you did not follow PP's terms, you would almost certainly lose
such a claim.
>>
Storm,
Did I follow PP's terms if I got signature confirmation and insurance?
Shane
<< <i>.......Did I follow PP's terms if I got signature confirmation and insurance? >>
//////////////////////////////////////////////
The rest of the terms are recited above.
I would expect that you are in compliance with all of the terms.
If so, you are likely safe from a UAU claim.
<< <i>I don't have the postal records for shipping anymore, but they are not claiming they never got it.. all saved messages on ebay show all the back and forths of this transaction and a positive was left for me....out of the 47.00, paypal is only holding 27.00, and shows there was a 20.00 refund...I expect to lose but have time and patience and will give it a fight......either way, life gotta go on... thanks you guys for all your help..ivan >>
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The "back-and-forth" should be clearly noted in your defense.
It is good that she left FB, but it is never, by itself, dispositive
to any claim. (Folks leave incorrect FB all the time.)
The $27 shows that you issued the refund into the correct panel.
That is good.
You should prevail, but PP is not a good advocate. 50/50 chance.
You can prove all day long that you shipped something with a tracking # but Paypal doesn't give a damn and they roll over as mentioned. Then to add to the insult and injury charge you a little fee for trying to dispute this on your behalf even though they lost the dispute.
as if that's relevant?
BTW - I wish I were rich!