why Willie Mays is the greatest -- article
EchoCanyon
Posts: 2,288 ✭✭✭
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EchoCanyon
Posts: 2,288 ✭✭✭
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All good reason's...............Just too bad he's such a Douche.................!
YeeHah
Neil
Bonds better than Williams through the year 2000? Please. He conveniently points out that Willie lost two years to military service at the start of his career, but fails to mention that Williams (like DiMaggio) missed three years in the middle of his prime.
While there's no legitimate way to criticize Willie's defense, the writer completely overlooks other players who were at least close to Willie, if not his equal. Dom DiMaggio was widely known as the best defensive center fielder in baseball for decades. Clemente was at least as good in right as Willie was in center, if not better. Aaron was a very underrated defensive player. Even Mantle, who couldn't get a good jump on the ball (and Willie was the best at getting a good jump) made up for it with his amazing speed. As years have gone by, Mantle's outstanding defense has been overlooked by more and more so-called analysts. And this guy mentions Andruw Jones for defense but not Griffey Jr. What?
The use of OPS to justify any statistical argument is both lazy and shady in my estimation. There are too many parts of the individual statistics (SLG and OBP) that get counted twice in the player's benefit when they shouldn't. Specifically, OPS overvalues singles. I'd always rather look at a player's full traditional line of stats, but if the "baseball can be analyzed completely just by looking at numbers" crowd wanted to create a single statistic that would actually have some meaning, it would be OBP + isolated power. Even still, Mantle's OPS was significantly better than Willie's, and the entire difference is in OBP, which sabermatricians recognize as being the slightly more significant of the two stats that get added together. Willie had to face tougher pitching in the NL? Come on. I guess the Cleveland pitching staff wasn't as glamorous as Koufax, Drysdale, and Gibson, but Mantle's opponents were more than worthy.
As for Ruth, he was a better hitter than Mays. Period. The supposed lack of quality of opposing pitchers is a smokescreen used by the writer to make you forget how much better Ruth was than all the other hitters during that era. He was also a fast runner for many years before he got really fat. His defense, while not anywhere near Willie's level, is also very underrated.
And he didn't just "have that pitching thing." He was a hall of fame pitcher who would have been one of the greatest ever to pick up a ball, even if he'd never picked up a bat. He had two tickets to Cooperstown - hitting and pitching. If not for Willie's bat, he's not close to being a hall of famer. Nobody gets inducted for their defense and baserunning alone.
Mantle wrote in one of his many books that he saw DiMaggio lose 20 homers in 1951 to the deep death valley in Yankee Stadium. Keep in mind DiMaggio was no longer an elite player in 1951 and Mantle wasn't with the team for the entire season. So let's just say Mantle exaggerated, and there were really only 10 balls DiMaggio hit that were caught in front of the 457 sign, and let's assume he lost 10 homers per year for his entire career. His HR total would have gone up by 130, to 491. Then let's say he would have hit 30 per year for the three years his missed to the war, plus the 10 per year he lost to his home ballpark. His HR total is now over 600 in only 16 seasons. And while his overall speed and overall defense were not as great as Willie's, his baserunning certainly was. Then we get to that silly OPS number again, and as usual, Willie fails to measure up.
I'm not out to get Willie, and as a player on the field, there's no question he belongs in the same conversation as the greatest players of all time. But he is not the best. That's stupid.
<< <i>You have to keep in mind Ruth... Cobb... All of them played in a non-racially combined league... I've always thought that made a difference, not saying either one is better because I don't have an opinion on the matter, but keep that in mind.... >>
Ruth would have been the best in either era. Ultimate home run power and a great pitcher as well?????? that's sick ...... chaz