Sometimes I wonder...why do we bother? **Follow Up In First Post**
MidLifeCrisis
Posts: 10,613 ✭✭✭✭✭
Most collectors lose money when it comes time to sell.
Hobby organizations don’t seem to have the collector’s best interest in mind.
Arrogance is pervasive in the hobby.
In many ways the hobby is actually just one big popularity contest.
Coin doctoring can’t be stopped; frequently can’t be detected until it’s too late; and can’t even be universally defined.
New collectors and young collectors are often treated poorly.
Collectors are often made to feel bad because their coins aren’t perfect.
On and on and on...
**Follow Up**
I appreciate the responses I received in this thread. And I appreciate the concern some of you expressed publicly and via PM to me.
I get frustrated with the things I posted above - just like we all do - but I have no real complaints. I'm fine. No worries. I have no intention of walking away from the hobby or chucking all my coins in a river or holding a fire sale or anything like that.
I posted the thread hoping to do a few things -
1. Cause some of you to think about why you participate in the hobby and realize, as I do, that the good far outweighs the bad. I go through this thought process myself every once in a while.
2. Encourage some motivating responses that make us all feel good about why we devote so much time, effort and money to this hobby.
3. Get a few things "off my chest".
I'm happy with my collecting activities and I hope you are happy with yours.
Hobby organizations don’t seem to have the collector’s best interest in mind.
Arrogance is pervasive in the hobby.
In many ways the hobby is actually just one big popularity contest.
Coin doctoring can’t be stopped; frequently can’t be detected until it’s too late; and can’t even be universally defined.
New collectors and young collectors are often treated poorly.
Collectors are often made to feel bad because their coins aren’t perfect.
On and on and on...
**Follow Up**
I appreciate the responses I received in this thread. And I appreciate the concern some of you expressed publicly and via PM to me.
I get frustrated with the things I posted above - just like we all do - but I have no real complaints. I'm fine. No worries. I have no intention of walking away from the hobby or chucking all my coins in a river or holding a fire sale or anything like that.
I posted the thread hoping to do a few things -
1. Cause some of you to think about why you participate in the hobby and realize, as I do, that the good far outweighs the bad. I go through this thought process myself every once in a while.
2. Encourage some motivating responses that make us all feel good about why we devote so much time, effort and money to this hobby.
3. Get a few things "off my chest".
I'm happy with my collecting activities and I hope you are happy with yours.
0
Comments
John
P.S. Don't be so dreary MLC!
siliconvalleycoins.com
Nothing more to add
Russ, NCNE
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Coins bore almost everyone of my peers. That's why I hang out here. It's a lonely world, but it's a solitary hobby. >>
I have NO other friends that collect coins or are interested in my hobby at all. It`s tough when you`re the only one around who can appreciate all of the time, hard work, and $ invested. I know though, in the end, I`ll be the one smiling from ear to ear as I build my collection when it`s finally time to sell.
You guys are the only ones I show my coins to.
<< <i>Most collectors lose money when it comes time to sell.
Hobby organizations don’t seem to have the collector’s best interest in mind.
Arrogance is pervasive in the hobby.
In many ways the hobby is actually just one big popularity contest.
Coin doctoring can’t be stopped; frequently can’t be detected until it’s too late; and can’t even be universally defined.
New collectors and young collectors are often treated poorly.
Collectors are often made to feel bad because their coins aren’t perfect.
On and on and on... >>
Have to agree.......although I did not become aware of that till I joined these boards.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
much easier to collect coins. Oh, I did eat what I caught but never was able to sell a fish.
My collection does preserve some of my hard earned cash for future fishing, if I so desire.
bob
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Sometimes I wonder...why do we bother? >>
I do it because I enjoy it. Anybody who doesn't, can stop anytime they want and find something more to their liking, I'm sure.
<< <i>Coins bore almost everyone of my peers. That's why I hang out here. It's a lonely world, but it's a solitary hobby. >>
This situation is familiar to me, luckily I can participate on this board and have found a few people with similar interests that I enjoy chatting with.
I bought a coin a few months ago at a show. Great color, great strike, awesome seller, rare die variety, one I needed. I could care less if I make a ton of money on the coin. I just love the history and the way it fit perfectly into my collection. Couple that with the memories from the show and it will be a hard one to sell.
I love to complete a set. The coins don't have to be perfect for everyone, just for me. I don't care if others don't like them, I care if I like them. I don't need mint state coins or coins that are perfect, they just need to fit into my idea of the perfect set. Every date or variety I add is a hunt and a challenge. What fun!
What's not to like??????????????????????????
P.S. My wife thinks I'm nuts and can't understand why I spend so much money on these coins - she wonders why do I bother all the time
Unless, of course, they already have.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
<< <i>You could spend your money on a hobby like golf. How much do you get back when it's time to sell all those rounds you ponied up for?
Russ, NCNE >>
Well said. I was thinking much the same thing. I don't mind losing a little bit of money here & there when it comes time to sell.
More often than not I break even... sometimes I even make a buck or two.
I figure the enjoyment, history, fellowship and education is worth a few bucks.
<< <i>MLC - As far as problems go, I'd say the things you've listed are pretty minimal. Let's instead talk about natural disasters, political and religious persecution, hunger, poverty, disease, aging and death, and why we bother living life at all. And by the time we finish that conversation, maybe you'll be ready to take your mind off things by playing with your coins. >>
That's a really good answer.
Hoard the keys.
We bother because we love it. It's what separates us from the masses.
Ron
Below are some of the many reasons I collect......
Most collectors lose money when it comes time to sell.
Hobby organizations don’t seem to have the collector’s best interest in mind.
Arrogance is pervasive in the hobby.
In many ways the hobby is actually just one big popularity contest.
Coin doctoring can’t be stopped; frequently can’t be detected until it’s too late; and can’t even be universally defined.
New collectors and young collectors are often treated poorly.
Collectors are often made to feel bad because their coins aren’t perfect.
On and on and on...
Great post......Midlife...
Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner.
My coins may not be perfect for you, but to me and my father, well that's a whole different story.
<< <i>Most collectors lose money when it comes time to sell. >>
You can increase your chances of a positive return but it generally requires you treat your coins like an investment and make your acquisitions strategically. To increase the return of your overall collection / portfolio, you may need to pass on coins you like that are fully priced in favor of other coins you like that are under priced. I've certainly passed on a few pieces I liked but thought were already fully priced in favor of others. A number of my coins have increased in value quite nicely; however, my choices also mean that I passed on some nice pieces that aren't offered very often.
<< <i>Hobby organizations don't seem to have the collector's best interest in mind. >>
Luckily there are some that are fighting for the collector's best interests and new membership in others give hope that those organizations will take more action too.
How do you measure pleasure, the thrill of the hunt, the coin in hand?
100% Positive BST transactions
All I can say is:
The money I lose pays for the fun I have.
Brian
<< <i>All I can say is:
The money I lose pays for the fun I have.
Brian
Pull yourself together MLC, entertainment cost money. Had you gone gambling there is no way you could get a return on money lost. At least with coins you get to enjoy them while you own them and can expect some type of return on them when you sell. You have a most impressive set of Colonials just ask anyone on the Forum. Think of what you have accomplished. Due to your being here on the Forum you have the attention and respect of the owners of some of the finest sets in existence.
Ron
I could care less about being #1, because there is someone there with more time, motivation and money. I don't worry about losses as that will be my family issue to deal with when I am gone. I have made many, many, many wonderful, lifelong friends in this hobby (you know who you are Mike, Donnie, Harry, Joyce,...................) I enjoy discovering new things, cherry picking rare things and all along the history! Just thinking where that 8 reale went, what it owners observed, how it got to me? Then the CH UNC 1884-S Morgan in MS-64 or the Leonard, TX 1882 BB in CU condition, why were they saved and never spent. What was so important and to whom?
We need to be more accepting of newbie's or young numismatist, but human nature is to puff your chest out, show who is boss and destroy all those weaker. Not our fault, Darwin said it best. As humans we need to do a better job, but so much distrust due to compulsive, egocentric freaks coming back as alt's or the chose one (the resident series expert) whom we all aspire to be inside says so and we follow suit as this must be the word of Breen just under a different handle.
That is why I collect.
There have been a couple of numismatic coin collectors that I have steered away from the hobby because they seem to find more aggravation than enjoyment. One problem for the no-fun crowd is that they might not find any fun anywhere because they are grumps to the core. Sad to say, but there are more than a few grumps in the coin hobby, more as a percentage than in the general population. Perhaps if they didn't have the hobby, they would be even more miserable, but they sure don't seem to having much fun.
proves the necessity for collectors to do the following:
1. Assemble a library of reference books on the series that
you choose to collect.
2. Make a serious effort to grade coins on your own by looking at many hundreds
if not thousands of coins.
3. Stick to first tier grading companies. Then determine if the graded coin meets your own standards.
Remember, when it is time to sell, only the top tier coins in a grade, will elicit a strong
offer from dealers or collectors.
4. Thru discussions with other collectors as well as what is said on this Forum,
assemble a small group of dealers that handle the coins and grades you collect. These dealers should
be honest, knowlegable, helpful and be willing to buy back all coins they sell at a fair price. It is important
to develope a strong relationship with these honorable dealers and always deal with them in an honorable manner.
5. There is no free lunch in coin collecting. If you do not learn how to collect, from whom to buy coins and how to grade
and price coins on your own, you are going to be skinned alive.
6. In any business or hobby, there are sharks, swindlers, obnoxious people, as well as dealers and collecters just looking
to take advantage of a nubie. If you believe that quality coins can be bought on the cheap you are wrong. Even if a coin is
priced as an expensive coin, the quality may not be there.
7. People who take out full page ads in the various coin periodicals, are often suspect as to their business practices. I do not
know why and this opinion is not 100% absolute, but it seems to be true in the great majority of cases.
8. Be prepared to make mistakes and lose some money when you begin. People seem to learn only thru their mistakes. Consider
it your tuition for an education in the hobby.. To make a mistake is understandable, to continue to make the same mistakes is just
unforgivable.
9. Any hobby is what you make of it. If you thing great collections are created without hard effort you will be wrong. Even modest
collections of medium grades will take great effort to obtain coins that are original, pleasing to the eye and at the top of their grade.
10. This Forum has collectors and dealers, that taken together, have many hundreds of years of experience and knowledge in coin collecting of all the
major series of coins and esoteric collections of So called dollars,tokens ect. Make use of that wisdom. Read, listen, ask questions and
take to heart what you hear.
Camelot
b. I understand that I'm just another in the line of custodians for my coins.
c. I do not make my living through the buying and selling of coins.
d. I recognize that people put in a lot of time (a LOT of time, and traveling) to make a living in numismatics, and I appreciate their wares when they suit/meet my quality requirements.
e. My only regret is that I make mistakes and miss opportunities. [That 1890-O Denny Kemp dollar is a prime example!]
f. I will endeavour to learn from my mistakes and be ready for future opportunities.
g. There are very nice/helpful people in numismatics, and I will endeavour to 'do business' with them or learn from them. (See Item d.)
<< <i>
The optimist says the glass is half full.
The pessimist says the glass is half empty.
The engineer says the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Coin collecting is one of the things that has ruined my life. >>
In what way? Care to elaborate?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Of course an alternative would be to shut people out altogether and focus mainly on the coins. I believe there have been many collectors who have done this and only interact with other collectors or dealers when absolutely necessary.
K
<< <i>Most collectors lose money when it comes time to sell.
Hobby organizations don’t seem to have the collector’s best interest in mind.
Arrogance is pervasive in the hobby.
In many ways the hobby is actually just one big popularity contest.
Coin doctoring can’t be stopped; frequently can’t be detected until it’s too late; and can’t even be universally defined.
New collectors and young collectors are often treated poorly.
Collectors are often made to feel bad because their coins aren’t perfect.
On and on and on... >>
Now that you depressed me I'm leaving for the day...maybe a round on the links can calm my mood. Sorry Coinlieutenant, I won't be buying any more coins from you knowing some day someone will offer to puchase for less once they've negatively critiqued my holdings...
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>hchcoin, that's one of the most uplifting posts I've read on this board in a long time. Great post and well said! >>
I agree and couldn't have said it better!
I also like & agree with Russ's reply.
<< <i>Most collectors lose money when it comes time to sell.
Hobby organizations don’t seem to have the collector’s best interest in mind.
Arrogance is pervasive in the hobby.
In many ways the hobby is actually just one big popularity contest.
Coin doctoring can’t be stopped; frequently can’t be detected until it’s too late; and can’t even be universally defined.
New collectors and young collectors are often treated poorly.
Collectors are often made to feel bad because their coins aren’t perfect.
On and on and on... >>
I agree. People have found a way to turn the hobby into a huge business. But it keeps me from going crazy.
<< <i>**Follow Up**
I appreciate the responses I received in this thread. And I appreciate the concern some of you expressed publicly and via PM to me.
I get frustrated with the things I posted above - just like we all do - but I have no real complaints. I'm fine. No worries. I have no intention of walking away from the hobby or chucking all my coins in a river or holding a fire sale or anything like that.
I posted the thread hoping to do a few things -
1. Cause some of you to think about why you participate in the hobby and realize, as I do, that the good far outweighs the bad. I go through this thought process myself every once in a while.
2. Encourage some motivating responses that make us all feel good about why we devote so much time, effort and money to this hobby.
3. Get a few things "off my chest".
I'm happy with my collecting activities and I hope you are happy with yours.
Dang it! I thought for sure you were going to either toss all of your coins into the river but let me know when and where just before hand so I could catch them all....or I thought you were just going to donate them to the keyman64 foundation.
Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner.