Large collection of Goetz memorabilia up for auction in Munich

pruebas

For those of you interested in Goetz medals & memorabilia, a very large collection of them is coming to auction in early May at the firm of Hirsch in Munich. The collection was the property of Benedikt Laib, who apparently had some connection to Goetz.

Since I don't read German, I don't fully understand the circumstances of the collection. I tried to cut and paste the text from my PDF catalog into a translation site, but there is a character set mismatch and it doesn't work. So, I am attaching the collector's biography from the auction catalog here as a GIF image for those who can read German.

What I found neat is that they have many "casting masters" (Gußmodell) that were used in making the casting molds for the cast medals. These are extremely rare, but I don't know much about them. If anyone has more info, please let us know.

There are also coin patterns, plaques, a cane handle, and all kinds of stuff.

And if anyone is interested and needs help with the logistics of bidding, please feel free to ask.
Good luck in your bidding!

Website: http://www.coinhirsch.de/ or http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewsale&sid=386
Lot numbers: 3501 to 4667 (1167 lots!)

cacheman

Most of these pieces were first offered in the Gorny&Mosch Auktion 68 in 1994. This was Goetz's private collection which Guido's kids convinced their mother to sell after Guido died in 1986.

There was some underhandedness in the handling of the auction per rumor. Apparently a private collector offered to buy the entire auction lot for $230,000 and the auction house sold it to him thus canceling the Goetz portion of the auction. Unfortunately for the auction house, the buyer died before payment was made and the collection disappeared. Random pieces appeared in other auction house auctions over the next 15 years but no one would mention where they were coming from. I have a number of the pieces now in my collection so I know for a fact that pieces were leaking out from whomever obtained them. My Goetz family contact says they haven't had them in their possession since late 1993.

There are far greater rarities besides the Gußmodells in this collection and although I feel they are probably over priced, especially the questionable lead examples, they will undoubtedly bring far higher prices than the reserve. This collection, as mentioned, was Karl's own personal collection of masters.

Prices for Goetz material have risen 300% over the past 10 years and I hear that investors are now sniffing around for some place to put their money other than in silver and gold. The art market ain't a bad idea and I'm sure most of this material will bring moon money for the select rarities of the group.

The thing about saturating the market with such a large collection all at one time is that the overall sales total will undoubtedly be far lower than had they spread them out over three or four auctions. Yes, Goetz is the most collected medallist in the world but the end goal of nabbing the most for the least amount will rule supreme and this always lowers what the price could have been. It'll certainly be nice to have a more recent price guide no matter the result as it has already been five years since the last big Goetz auction, Boettcher's collection from Hamburg and sold by Moeller.

Unfortunately, I will primarily be a viewer this time around....damn economy anyway....

spoon

I saw that earlier and was waiting for Scott to come along. Thanks for the backstory

That was my first reaction too... it doesn't seem very smart to list so much at once, but at least it makes for a handy reference.

Askari

Greed profits little.

spoon

Holy crap! An Askari sighting!!

Askari

Not exactly the euphemism I'd choose.

Lynch

<< <i>Prices for Goetz material have risen 300% over the past 10 years and I hear that investors are now sniffing around for some place to put their money other than in silver and gold. >>



Next thing you know there'll be a quintupling of prices at each grade point increment.

I can hear it now: "Yeah. it might be unique, but I only want it in 70".

MrEureka

Good thing PCGS is slabbing medals now, just in time!

savoyspecial

>>Next thing you know there'll be a quintupling of prices at each grade point increment.

I can hear it now: "Yeah. it might be unique, but I only want it in 70".>>



DPOTD Lynch! this is the natural evolution

pruebas

Thanks for the info, cacheman. But you realize that we, as buyers, should take advantage of the auction house putting so many Goetz lots in one auction. As often happens in such cases, there are bound to be some lots that slip through the cracks and do not go for moon money. I suspect the auction house wanted it over with and the consigner's estate wanted the collection gone quickly and easily. So what if some money is left on the table, especially since as you say, these have risen so much over the years?

Far be it for me to tell them how to run their business, I am simply going to take advantage of the situation presented to me.

That said, Goetz medals are not a particular interest of mine. But I suspect there are people here who may be interested. That is why I posted.

cacheman

I wasn't arguing, just giving my opinion. Actually, quite a few things will probably fall through the cracks, particularly the satiricals...much to benefit of the collectors. If, however, you have your eye on what is deemed an uber rarity, be prepared to pay for it.

just saying....

pruebas

So the auction is complete. I have to say that I am a complete Goetz novice (and I don't even own Kienast, although not for lack of trying).

Here are some of my observations, having sat through most of it on the internet (with audio from the auction room).

1) There were very few discrete bidders of this material. While I was not privy to the book, it seemed as though there were <5 people on the floor, a handful of internet bidders, and some telephone bidders. Generally, the internet and telephone bidders went for some specific items and that was it. I would not categorize this sale as having massive interest.

2) Lots generally opened at 80% of the estimate and many of them sold at that level or barely moved (or didn't sell). Not being an expert in Goetz material, I don't know if the reserves were too high (or more likely, the Euro is too high), the economy is hurting collecting interest, information about the sale was not disseminated well enough, or investors have moved on. One bidder in particular on the floor cleaned up and bought a large percentage of the lots at the opening bid.

3) All it took was two people with an interest in an item to skyrocket the price. Look at the Venezuelan "patterns," for example.

4) The Gußmodells didn't do particularly well as a class. The auctioneer sounded almost forlorn when one didn't sell.

5) The lead pieces didn't do well at all. But do they ever?

6) I suspect the material that hasn't sold will be back.

While I attended the sale mainly for other (non-Goetz) material, I did buy 4 Goetz pieces (all pedigreed to the artist's estate) and am happy with that.

Cacheman (and others), did you manage to buy some pieces for your collection?

cacheman

Those "five" bidders were probably bidding for 10-15 clients each...if not more. That's how it's usually done and most collectors will place their trust in their German agent over using on line bidding.

I think I stated originally that their estimates were too high.

"One bidder in particular on the floor cleaned up and bought a large percentage of the lots at the opening bid." A dealer no doubt, and I'll bet I know who it is. They'll put them up for sale at twice the price...and they can afford to sit on them for a long time without taking a hit.

"The Gußmodells didn't do particularly well as a class. The auctioneer sounded almost forlorn when one didn't sell." Why pay double or more for a couple more mm's in size? This is like buying an MS70 because your MS68 isn't good enough. Your money is best spent diversified in buying the same medal that wasn't a 'gussmodell'...and most of them had these dupes present. Yeah, it would be nice to own all of them but a line needs to be drawn somewhere...not eveyone's a millionaire, eh?

"The lead pieces didn't do well at all. But do they ever?" Not really, nor should they. The jury is still out but there are collectors questioning why these would be made by Goetz in the first place. They certainly aren't part of the medal making process, at least not Goetz's. It's possible Guido may have made them when he and Kienast tried to sell new aftercasts in the late 60's. Goetz did cast shop trials, but they were usually iron (some nickel).

I don't know if I've won anything as I haven't heard from my agent yet. Aside from anything I might win, there should be quite a few coming my way directly from several collectors agents...the new owners have me photographing their pieces for them. I have set up an altruistic relationship...I'll do high res photodocumentation images for their record keeping and they let me use the images on my new website I'm still working on. The images will be shared with everyone, I have images of medals I don't own for the site, and the collectors have decent images...a win/win anyway you look at it.