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Red copper spots on gold coins? - Question?

GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,506 ✭✭✭✭✭
Ok, gold bullion coins sometimes develop these red "copper spots"

I had always thought that this was caused by a mixture impurity in the metal and was "IN" the coin itself and thus was not something that could be removed. I have now learned that the spot develops from impurities but is on the surface and can be removed IF you know how?

My question is can anyone tell me how to safely remove these spots?

Thanks, GrandAm image
GrandAm :)

Comments

  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have heard...and I repeat HEARD..

    that you can deposit the coin in MS70 and boil in a microwave.

    I want to emphasis that I have never done it and I do not know what the long term stability of the surface is.

    There would have to be a certain amount of fine tuning and I haven't a clue as to what can go wrong. The person who told me about this was relating to me about different techniques of dealing with problems..and this person is as knowledgeble as anyone --anywhere--in the US. He has sold me better date gold with spots and just mentioned the technique in passing.

    If he reads this post, I'm DEAD.
    Have a nice day
  • I thought metal couldnt go in a microwave ? Have i been wrong all these years ? image
  • CiccioCiccio Posts: 1,405
    Here is a LINK with the solution.
    I have no idea if it works or not.

    One of my favorite coins has a little red spot! image

  • sumrtymsumrtym Posts: 394 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I thought metal couldnt go in a microwave ? Have i been wrong all these years ? image >>


    No, you are not. You'll have a great fire going.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,793 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I thought metal couldnt go in a microwave ? Have i been wrong all these years ? image >>


    My microwave has a metal rack in it. Hasn't exploded yet!

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,793 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The odd thing is I have seen in on way more 24k buffalos and UHRs than I have on 22K eagles and maples. So much for the copper theory.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭
    I looked at 20 sets of proof gold libertads a couple of weeks ago. Every single piece of 1/20, 1/10, 1/4, and 1 oz. had red spots. And not a single coin of the 1/2 oz. did.

    Seemed kind of odd to me.


  • << <i>

    << <i>I thought metal couldnt go in a microwave ? Have i been wrong all these years ? image >>


    My microwave has a metal rack in it. Hasn't exploded yet! >>



    Is that one of those dual convection/microwave ovens ? I don't know but i think the metal rack is supposed to come out when using the microwave function , the metal rack is for the convection side of things. Like i say , i don't know , but what we have here is a split result , some of us are of the mind that no you can't put metal in which i suspect is correct , and then theres the opinion that yes metal can be placed within.

    Which is it ?
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,793 ✭✭✭✭✭
    its a regular microwave. metal can't touch sides, top or bottom of inside. my metal rack is insulated from touching with plastic clips.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like copper spots.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    I, too, like copper spots but only on my pre '33. I have a buffalo with a conspicuous red/orangy spot on the surface and I seriously doubt that was an inclusion of copper in the planchet. On the pre '33, I would doubt that you could remove the copper spot...you might be able to diminsh the area that is discolored but I would doubt you could dip the inclusion away. On the modern material, I would think that you could dip the red/orangy spots off of the coin. Since the refining is so much more sophisticated now, it would be difficult to believe that there are free floating particles of copper, of any size, in a modern pour.

    Don't put metal in the microwave, period. The metal rack that is mentioned has a special coating on it, your coins don't. Do not put metal in the microwave. On the other hand, it would be interesting to see what happens to the coin when you do microwave it...but then again, that's the kind of thinking that led me to putting a fork and a knife in the two little holes in the wall socket (I was only 10). Nothing like a good jolt of electrons to get your mind right.

  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I too always remembered the warning about metal in the microwave-----I would think it has something to do with reflecting the radiation in an uneven pattern towards the food.

    The microwaves are directional and excite organic matter. The waves lose energy when they transfer that energy to organic matter. If a coin is submerged in a liquid, I would like to believe that all the coin would do is reflect any waves back up in to the liquid.
    My microwave has a metal rack in it and I haven't burned down the house yet.

    If anybody tries this, check your fire insurance policy first.

    I'm flying blind on this one.

    You could probably use a standard propane gas stove --OUTSIDE-- and boil MS70.
    Have a nice day
  • TheBigBTheBigB Posts: 942
    I obtained a Chinese technical article discussing the spotting of 24K pandas. They determined that contamination came when the manufacturing process was not being sufficiently isolated from the minting of other metals. In other words, the alloy was originally pure.
  • Well after I tried the gold coin microwave thing today the results were less than desirable! LOLimage
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  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,793 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It would be nice for PCGS to chime in on this topic and share their feelings toward affect on grade and if there are any know removal procedures that would get by that darned sniffer dog.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey



  • << <i>Well after I tried the gold coin microwave thing today the results were less than desirable! LOLimage >>



    April 1st was yesterday man , you are kidding..right ?

    DerryB re: spots and PCGS , on the world coin forum we had a guy who had a spotted coin graded , wasn't gold though but apparantly because it was a natural occurance it didn't affect the grade.
  • GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,506 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good point,,,,,,,

    How do natural carbon spots affect the grade? Can a Modern Bullion Coin grade MS69 with spots?
    GrandAm :)
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,793 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Good point,,,,,,,

    How do natural carbon spots affect the grade? Can a Modern Bullion Coin grade MS69 with spots? >>


    I'm wondering if it would keep an otherwise 70 from being a 70!

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • TheBigBTheBigB Posts: 942


    << <i>Good point,,,,,,,

    How do natural carbon spots affect the grade? Can a Modern Bullion Coin grade MS69 with spots? >>



    I have seen them from PCGS, that is how they came from the mint.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,113 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Good point,,,,,,,

    How do natural carbon spots affect the grade? Can a Modern Bullion Coin grade MS69 with spots? >>



    I have seen them from PCGS, that is how they came from the mint. >>



    Is it possible the spots developed after the coin was slabbed?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Well after I tried the gold coin microwave thing today the results were less than desirable! LOLimage >>



    I'm glad 01APRIL11 only comes once a year.image
    Have a nice day
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,113 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm glad 01APRIL11 only comes once a year.image >>



    Actually, "01APRIL11" only comes once every century. image

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • TheBigBTheBigB Posts: 942


    << <i>Is it possible the spots developed after the coin was slabbed? >>




    Yes, it is possible. I am not sure that spotting precludes a MS69 designation though, that is a question for higher powers.image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,113 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Is it possible the spots developed after the coin was slabbed? >>



    Yes, it is possible. I am not sure that spotting precludes a MS69 designation though, that is a question for higher powers.image >>



    I guess it would depend on the number, size, and location of the spots. A few microscopic spots that are well hidden within the design shouldn't preclude a 69.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • JimDepotJimDepot Posts: 958 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Is it possible the spots developed after the coin was slabbed? >>



    Yes, it is possible. I am not sure that spotting precludes a MS69 designation though, that is a question for higher powers.image >>



    I guess it would depend on the number, size, and location of the spots. A few microscopic spots that are well hidden within the design shouldn't preclude a 69. >>



    This was a PCGS PR70DCAM, I sent it in and PCGS gave me a choice to regrade as PR69DCAM with some cash or they would purchase it.

    I sold it to PCGS and purchased some silver with the cash.

    The spots appeared after it was slabbed.

    image
    image

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