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Collecting hockey cards...

I do not collect Hockey cards and if you do, hopefully it is just for fun. With Sidney Crosby out with a concussion and players like Eric Lindros in the past, Hockey does not protect it's superstars (nor anyone else ) from avoidable injury. The NFL has done just about everything but put a yellow jersey on it's prized commodities, the QB, knowing that these players are who the public pays to see. Hockey is still in the dinosaur age and probably nearly that extinct. No major network shows their games, but does show poker events, that should tell you something.

I personally enjoy watching playoff hockey, but something needs to be changed if it is going to be a viable sport. If not all that money people are pumping into Ovechkin (sp) and Crosby cards will be just a waste of time.image
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Comments

  • cpamikecpamike Posts: 5,561 ✭✭✭
    Hockey is very much a niche sport. Always has been, probably always will be. NBC does show select games during the year and has gotten some of the best ratings in the past decade this year so I wouldn't write off hockey completely. I'm sure any Canadian will disagree that hockey is not a viable sport. It just isn't economically viable in some of the locations it has over expanded to in the U.S.

    From personal experience, hockey is probably one of the most difficult sports to eliminate concussions from due to the speed involved. I suffered a concussion in my late twenties and still can not recall what happened during that evening. I'm told I scored though...LOL. Back then, as soon as you were better you played. Obviously, we know better now and I think you'll see improvements in all the sports, but hockey will always have the hardest time totally eliminating it.

    I agree that buying current hockey player cards is not the best investment particularly here in the U.S., but there will always be a market just on a smaller scale. It should be collected by fans for the fun of it and not for its investment potential which will never rival baseball or football.

    Don't get me started on televised poker!!!
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep."

    "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."

    Collecting:
    Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
  • If I bought cards with the intent of flipping them for profit THEN I might give a cr@p. But I don't, so I don't.

    EDIT: In my opinion, as long as the leagues mandate the latest, most innovative (and PROVEN) equipment...then concussions are just part of the gamble. Don't like it? Don't play professional hockey.
    South of Heaven...North of Canada
  • lanemyer85lanemyer85 Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭
    I do not collect Hockey cards and if you do, hopefully it is just for fun. With Sidney Crosby out with a concussion and players like Eric Lindros in the past, Hockey does not protect it's superstars (nor anyone else ) from avoidable injury. The NFL has done just about everything but put a yellow jersey on it's prized commodities, the QB, knowing that these players are who the public pays to see. Hockey is still in the dinosaur age and probably nearly that extinct. No major network shows their games, but does show poker events, that should tell you something.

    I personally enjoy watching playoff hockey, but something needs to be changed if it is going to be a viable sport. If not all that money people are pumping into Ovechkin (sp) and Crosby cards will be just a waste of time.


    "Avoidable injuries" are those that guys like Eric Tangradi suffered at the hands of no-talent goons like Trevor Gillies. What happened to Crosby was simply the result of game action, and in a high contact sport like hockey or football you're always going to have issues with concussions. Aside from Lindros and Kariya, how many other NHL elite level players have had their careers cut short with concussions within the last 20 years? Maybe there are more but that's what I came up with from the top of my mental rolodex. I mean those two would equal the two QBs - Aikman and Young that you're claiming the NFL is protecting. QBs are sometimes in vulnerable positions and you can say that about any hockey player at any position (even goalie) at any point in the game. Isn't the head of the Sports Legacy group that's heading up all these new tests on concussions a young ex-pro wrestler? That stuff is scripted and his 'career' was cut short...but it's still contact. Anyway, a lot of Lindros' problems stemmed from his own stubbornness and stupidity. He constantly coasted around between the bluelines with his head down and took runs at fighters. He was a high skill player who played most of his career on teams like the Rangers, Leafs, and Flyers who always rostered a bunch of knuckledragging one dimensional useless goons to appease their mouthbreather fanbases. So he didn't even need to fight or float around looking to blow up guys with big hits or by dropping his mittens. He could've been like Joe Thornton and just played his skill game despite his 6'5 240 lb frame. Mario Lemieux was 6'4 235 and played like a guy who was 5'9 170. I don't think the Red Wings have had a real heavyweight since the Probert/Kocur days. I'm not counting the useless agitator that was McCarty and not Brad May or Aaron Downey who barely played even when they were there. Have the three elite level Wings - Lidstrom, Datsyuk, or Zetterberg suffered a concussion in the last 5 years...or even ever? I can't recall any of those three being out with a concussion at least within the last 8 years and the Wings don't even worry about rostering a useless "enforcer" to keep teams from talking liberties on those guys. Smart players like the aforementioned three go out of their way to not put themselves in those positions. Patrick Kane is a complete idiot off the ice, but his hockey IQ is off the charts. He's still young, but he's been in the league for 4 years now without a concussion and he's the same diminutive size as Kariya. A lot of players put themselves in vulnerable positions with poor decisions and bad positioning. That said, football players aren't moving at 30 mph wielding sticks on a frozen surface. There are going to be accidents simply from the from the speed of the game and guys getting their domes bounced off the ice or the glass. The barns with partitionless glass is particularly unyielding. In Crosby's case, he shouldn't have been out there to take the second hit from Hedman (from behind as is the norm for a Lightning blueliner) a week after taking the Spanish Archer from Steckel. That's on PITT's medical staff and/or Crosby's stubbornness to report a problem. You can peruse youtube and look at the hit Willie Mitchell put on Toews two years ago. He ragdolled Toews coming out of the penalty box, Toews didn't see him, and got blindsided. He missed two weeks with a concussion and that was a clean monster hit compared to what Crosby took. Crosby's problem was most likely the cascade effect of taking two headshots in the span of a week...and the Hedman hit wasn't even really a hit, moreso just a bump from behind where Crosby's melon bounced off the glass. Hitting has risen by 35% since the lockout and the obstruction rules came into play but you can also attribute hitting to evolution - bigger stronger faster, shorter shifts (all out sprint all the time), and because more and more teams are finally moving into this century, and aren't wasting roster and salary cap space on goons or enforcers. So those guys that are rostered are going out of their way to 'prove' their one dimensional 'value' by trying to make a name for themselves with big hits or contrived fights. In that regard, the NHL is like the NFL. John Lynch lands a few big hits early in his career and he's a pro bowler for a decade despite being slow and routinely being caught out of position. I think you'll see this stuff start to decrease to a certain extent once the good old boys network of all these old school Canadian GMs (and Brian Burke) are retired and gone from the game. The Don Cherry clones who still want their skill-less 'good ol' tough Canadian farm boys eh' flying around looking to land big hits while making no effort to actually play the puck. I mean seriously, why would any rational thinking GM roster Trevor Gillies in 2011? He can't do anything that doesn't involve a fist being thrown...and he doesn't even do that very well as evidenced by all of his hits from behind. Stop giving those guys like Matt Cooke a paycheck and you'd cut out a decent portion of the crap surrounding the NHL.
  • HallcoHallco Posts: 3,622 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All the more reasons to collect vintage hockey!
  • Above post sums it up pretty well. My quick thoughts on the subject are:

    1.) The instigator rule needs to go. Guys will be less likely to take massive runs at people if there's a price to pay for their actions. Ironically, letting the goons do their thing likely makes the league a little safer overall.

    2.) The technical ability of skaters has increased notably in the last 25 years and, thus, the speed at which players are making contact is greater than ever. The removal of interference via "clutching"/"grabbing"/hooking/holding has also changed the way contact is being made on the ice.

    3.) The molded hockey equipment needs to go. I played on both sides, using the foam equipment and molded plastic equipment. The first time I took a plastic molded elbow pad in the face, it was a bit of a shock. Imagine boxers hitting each other with hard plastic gloves instead of foam. Not a great analogy but you get the picture.

    4.) Comparing tackling in the NFL to checking in the NHL is apples/oranges. I personally think hitting in the NFL is more punishing but there isn't overt player protection in the NHL. It's not like Crosby has a bunch of offensive linemen going around the ice, trying to protect him at all times. The punishment you take is dictated by your style of play.

    5.) No doubt, hockey is not popular in the Southern US but there's no trouble filling the rink in the Northern and Northeastern US though. With exception to a few Southern market teams, the league is in good shape. It won't be disappearing or become irrelevant any time soon. As a matter of fact, there's an argument to be made that hockey has an international influence more expansive, in terms of the number of countries that develop NHL caliber players, than any of the other three American major sports. It's too bad more Americans don't have a larger appreciation for hockey and the NHL. I love all of the major sports but the flow of the game blows away any of the other three. The latter point is a part of the reason major networks don't have a huge interest in carrying NHL games. It's hard to fit in a lot of commercials with exception to intermissions because the break between plays is so quick. The game often has to specifically delay for extended time after a whistle to allow a break for television commercials.
  • nightcrawlernightcrawler Posts: 5,110 ✭✭
    Tuck your hockey card collecting stratagy between your legs with your narrow viewpoint of a great sport.

    Gretzky was protected by the league, I guess no one has ever meant so much to the sport as he did back when...


    Back when Jagr and Lemieux suffered the reality of hockey. No one ever hesitated to shove Thereon Flureys head into the boards. Get tough and stay that way, or get out a hockey, simple.


    Who's the Captian of the Blackhawks, there's a tough kid for sure.
  • jay0791jay0791 Posts: 3,508 ✭✭✭✭
    HK cards? Ya kidding me? I collect all 4 sports and by far the hardest to get and easiest to sell are vintage HK cards in hi grades.
    Values are flying upward while the other sports are stagnant or falling. I am not a big fan of VCP but a hard to get card can get 2x vcp with no problem at all.

    Watch and mostly UNDERSTAND the game before you make assumptions. I certainly respect your opinion as HK is not followed
    like other sports in this country.

    Yes I agree...S Crosby is awesome. He's also a major investment. More and more medical evidence is available now than maybe only a few years ago.
    If he needs more time then he gets more time. In the long run his team is better of waiting for a healthy Sidney.

    HK has its own little rules and unwritten rules. Hqard hits and rough play are part of that. Sometimes it's expected or required for 2 guys to drop the gloves and go at it. It's part of the game so the referees just watch
    for a little while and tehn break it up 'when it's time.' Imagine 2 guys having a fistfight on the 50 yard line? and the referees just standing there? I don't think so.

    Closest thing is in baseball. Your player gets beamed by a baseball or its way hi and in. Next inning your pitcher does the same. He's following an unwritten rule of
    protecting your own. Kinda like don't mess with our goalie. I have seen a pitcher beam someone. Batter charges the mound but the catcher tackles him. He knows he is thrown out of the game and starts to walk to the dugout without the ump saying anything. Maybe the benches clear...but in post game interview he says," I had to hit him...if I didn't I would lose the respect of my fellow teamates."
    Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets
    1948-76 Topps FB Sets
    FB & BB HOF Player sets
    1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
  • e64mtde64mtd Posts: 104
    People believing that Gretzky was protected by the league is likely a bigger myth than Ruth actually calling his shot. To actually think guys were neither allowed or afraid to hit him was pure fallacy. Sure you weren't going to take a massive run at him trying to take his head off but you could never do that to any superstar in the NHL without paying a price. For example, do you think Schultz wasn't protecting Clarke from such abuse? Probert for Yzerman? The list is basically endless. Gretzky wasn't routinely hit hard because he was amazingly adept at rolling off checks, his quickness was incredible and he mostly didn't play in areas of ice where high contact occurs. Setting up plays behind the net in the offensive zone allowed him to avoid contact as he couldn't be hit easily. The rumor of him being protected by the league is simply cognitive dissonance. People couldn't rationalize his talent then and many still can't to this day. A player of his physical stature wasn't supposed to be, arguably the greatest of all-time.
  • cpamikecpamike Posts: 5,561 ✭✭✭
    e64mtd, Great post!!! I agree 100% with what you said.

    To add to what you said, another thing to remember and something not to be taken lightly is the fact that the majority of players other than the goalies didn't start wearing helmets until the mid to late 70s. Players had more respect for each other and kept their elbows and sticks down. True the game is played much faster today with bigger players, but when I started playing I did not wear a helmet and now over the years since it became mandatory I get hit more and more in the head. The kids today do not understand how to control their sticks and elbows like in the past. Maybe if they played a few games with no helmets they may learn some control. Now if I get a stick up high, the kid will say sorry. Well my response to that is, nevermind. Suffice to say, they give me plenty of room the next time we play.
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep."

    "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."

    Collecting:
    Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
  • PowderedH2OPowderedH2O Posts: 2,443 ✭✭
    jay, I think you are right on. Sure, there are some dead hockey cards, but there are a lot of them that you will pay through the nose for. I live in North Carolina, and Raleigh loves the Hurricanes. That's a Southern market, but there are so many transplants that the fanbase is stronger than ever. I collect hockey and football mainly, and I don't find myself stealing too many vintage HOFer cards. I would love to see more coverage by NBC, but since every game that NBC televises has to have either the Pens, Rangers, or Red Wings (and often two of those three), fans that don't get Versus rarely see exciting teams like the Canucks, Coyotes, Hurricanes, Ducks, and Sabres. Thank goodness for the NHL Network!!!
    Successful dealings with shootybabitt, LarryP, Doctor K, thedutymon, billsgridirongreats, fattymacs, shagrotn77, pclpads, JMDVM, gumbyfan, itzagoner, rexvos, al032184, gregm13, californiacards3, mccardguy1, BigDaddyBowman, bigreddog, bobbyw8469, burke23, detroitfan2, drewsef, jeff8877, markmac, Goldlabels, swartz1, blee1, EarlsWorld, gseaman25, kcballboy, jimrad, leadoff4, weinhold, Mphilking, milbroco, msassin, meteoriteguy, rbeaton and gameusedhoop.
  • nightcrawlernightcrawler Posts: 5,110 ✭✭
    Gretzky was protected by the league, I've personally seen it many times. No one ever followed through with a check on him except one person early in Gretzky's career. And guess what? That guy never stepped foot on the ice for another NHL shift after that. He didn't even play the rest of the game.

    I'm all for protecting key players, but if they protect one they should protect them all.
  • GarabaldiGarabaldi Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭
    Gretz was not protected by the league. He was protected by his teammates and you know what, he should have been. Why, because he was the best player in the league. He made other players alot of money and brought them them to several Stanley Cup wins. The league back then policed itself and did not allow as much of the crap that goes on now. Sure, there were cheapshots, but you were help accountable for it.
  • "HK cards? Ya kidding me? I collect all 4 sports and by far the hardest to get and easiest to sell are vintage HK cards in hi grades.
    Values are flying upward while the other sports are stagnant or falling."

    Totally agree ........
    just do a completed search on sales of capsports2000 ~ the proof is there ~ Vintage High Grade Hockey consistently out sells for more $$$$$ than Baseball Football or Basketball !!!!
  • example ....
    Orr
  • e64mtde64mtd Posts: 104
    @Nightcrawler:

    The McCreary hit on Gretzky is another urban legend that will never die. McCreary, did in fact lay out Gretzky, but it certainly wasn't his last game and nor was it his last shift. It's a well-known fact he played another ten games after the Gretzky hit. Why didn't he play more? He wasn't any good.

    Here's the hit:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72oxwUo1T9E

    Here's his Wikipedia link:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_McCreary,_Jr.

    Here's his player profile with career stats:

    http://www.legendsofhockey.net/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/SearchPlayer.jsp?player=13607

    I just can't imagine why anyone would believe that a bunch of athletes in any high level sport would play by some unwritten rule whereas a certain player gets a free pass. Do you think the hockey teams in the 80s were actually planning their game strategies, and then would take pause, "oh by the way guys, don't forget the unwritten rule about not hitting Gretzky." Even if conceding some absurd logic where that could possibly be the case, there would be some guys who just wouldn't care and would do what whatever it took to win the game, coaches and league be damned. If they could line Gretzky up, they would have. And he did get hit hard time to time throughout his career, just not often and to my knowledge never again as hard as the McCreary hit. I don't think too many guys could take that type of hit on successive occasions and have an extended career anyhow.

    That being said, I've watched more Gretzky games than many people and not many seem to remember that from the outset of the game or if the opposing team had the lead, Gretzky often had a "shadow". Players like Tikkanen, Kasper and others would follow Gretzky around the ice impeding his ability to move freely. They would hook, hold, trip, run interference and the referees wouldn't do a thing about it because that was the style of the game at the time. Can you imagine players trying to do that now? You can't even put a stick on anyone anymore without drawing a penalty. The game today is faster but Gretzky would have more room to roam the ice freely. Gretzky in his prime would make jaws drop in today's game. It's too bad people just don't appreciate more how special he really was. I've never heard of an athlete in any sport attempted to be qualified more than Gretzky. I think people have a hard time rationalizing his dominance over his peers in the game while in his prime.
  • Collecting Hockey in America is really difficult. back in the early 90s i was able to pretty much collect every insert set that came out. i still have most of them, even though they are worthless lol
    Big Fan of: HOF Post War RC, Graded RCs
    WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
  • cpamikecpamike Posts: 5,561 ✭✭✭
    The thing to remember about Gretzky is that he avoided contact at every opportunity. He also had the best vision of the ice than anyone who ever played the game. Not only did it help him set up teammates, but it also enabled him to avoid being plastered all over the rink. He would not go in the corners to fight for the puck, that was what Messier and Anderson were for...LOL. Believe me, the players did want to check him. He had a great team around him that protected him when needed.

    Just remember if you do decide to take a penalty against the Great One this is what happens..."You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, you know and you feel shame, you know. And then you get free."
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep."

    "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."

    Collecting:
    Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
  • e64mtde64mtd Posts: 104
    Ha ha, "Slapshot". Awesome!
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Gretz was not protected by the league. He was protected by his teammates and you know what, he should have been. Why, because he was the best player in the league. He made other players alot of money and brought them them to several Stanley Cup wins. The league back then policed itself and did not allow as much of the crap that goes on now. Sure, there were cheapshots, but you were help accountable for it. >>



    Nobody protected Messier.
  • cpamikecpamike Posts: 5,561 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Nobody protected Messier. >>



    You are so right. Nobody needed to. He could do a number on anyone who messed with the Mess.
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep."

    "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."

    Collecting:
    Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
  • its not only vintage hockey card prices that are going up, those 90's inserts are making some good $$$ look up epix season emerald and you'll see many sold recently for over $10.
  • GarabaldiGarabaldi Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Gretz was not protected by the league. He was protected by his teammates and you know what, he should have been. Why, because he was the best player in the league. He made other players alot of money and brought them them to several Stanley Cup wins. The league back then policed itself and did not allow as much of the crap that goes on now. Sure, there were cheapshots, but you were help accountable for it. >>



    Nobody protected Messier. >>



    Different player than Gretz, you would eat a Sherwood with Mess.
  • PowderedH2OPowderedH2O Posts: 2,443 ✭✭
    Dale Hawerchuk when he was in Winnipeg, knocked the crap out of Gretzky and slammed his head down on the ice, and to the best of my knowledge, Hawerchuk continued to have an NHL career afterwards.
    Successful dealings with shootybabitt, LarryP, Doctor K, thedutymon, billsgridirongreats, fattymacs, shagrotn77, pclpads, JMDVM, gumbyfan, itzagoner, rexvos, al032184, gregm13, californiacards3, mccardguy1, BigDaddyBowman, bigreddog, bobbyw8469, burke23, detroitfan2, drewsef, jeff8877, markmac, Goldlabels, swartz1, blee1, EarlsWorld, gseaman25, kcballboy, jimrad, leadoff4, weinhold, Mphilking, milbroco, msassin, meteoriteguy, rbeaton and gameusedhoop.
  • GarabaldiGarabaldi Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭
    You do not play in the NHL, especially in the playoffs and not get hit. He played a different style than Mario and Jagr, he could not make a career of playing in front of the net like they did. They had the big bodies and used it to their advantage. Gretz played on the fringe and was not afaid to take a hit to make a play. Also, he was good at avoiding contact that it made it seem like he was being protected.
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭


    << <i>You do not play in the NHL, especially in the playoffs and not get hit. He played a different style than Mario and Jagr, he could not make a career of playing in front of the net like they did. They had the big bodies and used it to their advantage. Gretz played on the fringe and was not afaid to take a hit to make a play. Also, he was good at avoiding contact that it made it seem like he was being protected. >>



    I'm not saying Gretzky was protected by the NHL (maybe he was, maybe he wasn't) but he was protected by his teammates (as were and still are many players). But plenty of ex-NHLrs have said they did not go out to take Gretzky's head off out respect for him.
  • nightcrawlernightcrawler Posts: 5,110 ✭✭
    I attended many games in Edmonton and saw Gretzky play 5 times when he was with LA, including two playoff games with Vancouver. I realize my opinion might be flawed, but I watched with my own eyes so many times as Gretzky's opponents would turn away and not follow through with the hit. That's something you will never see on televised games because the camera follows the puck.

    If McCreary played ten games after his hit on Gretzky, it seems strange that he would lie about it to so many of the kids he coached later on, I personally know a guy that was coached by McCreary. And it's strange that someone like Don Cherry would have no knowledge of those games, as he insists that the hit on Gretz was in fact the last time McCreary stepped on the ice.

    Mind you I'm posting this without actually checking out the links showing proof that he played. I'll do that after supper. Thanks for posting them.
  • jimradjimrad Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭
    I was lucky to be at 100's of live games and see Wayne Gretzky play and I can tell you first hand that he got hit many many times.
    As has been mentioned in this thread already, he was very good at avoiding the big hits. He was the most intelligent player ever and that meant he was smart enough to
    not put himself in a position to get slammed, although it did happen a few times. The league did not protect him, but an opposing player knew very well if they took a marginal hit on him they would get 10X back from the players that surrounded the Great One. The respect Gretzky had from his teammates was probably the biggest factor that I recognized watching him play.
    They so appreciated being on the ice with him and would sacrifice themselves at a moments notice.
    Positive transactions with: Bkritz,Bosox1976,Brick,captainthreeputt,cpettimd,craigger,cwazzy,DES1984,Dboneesq,daddymc,Downtown1974,EAsports,EagleEyeKid,fattymacs,gameusedhoop,godblessUSA,goose3,KatsCards,mike22y2k,
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  • Go Neal Broten image
  • e64mtde64mtd Posts: 104
    @Nightcrawler:

    Your stories about McCreary are only hearsay. If McCreary is saying that, he's not being honest. Facts are facts for all to see. I wouldn't pay much attention to Don Cherry's opinion on Gretzky. He gets pretty uptight about Gretzky because most consider him to be the greatest of all-time over Orr. For Cherry that's sacrilegious and he never wastes an opportunity to knock Gretzky down a peg, if only to protect Orr's legacy. Here's a link to an editorial letter with someone complaining about Don Cherry lying about the hit:

    http://www.chroniclejournal.com/editorial/letters/2011-03-09/its-time-cherry-go

    Here's another blog attempting to debunk the myth:

    http://scottsportsworld.blogspot.com/2010/04/short-career-of-bill-mccreary-jr.html

    I could post this on every website on the internet. It doesn't matter, people like the false story better because it reduces their cognitive dissonance about Gretzky's dominance. The myth, over time, will likely surpass the truth.

    On another note, throwing hard checks takes a lot of energy; I personally find it takes more energy than skating around the ice at high speed because once a hard check is thrown you're either on the ice or at a standstill and have to accelerate from standing position again. I'm not going to waste my energy trying to nail a guy who's going to roll off my check and make me look silly doing it. Gretzky was notoriously hard to hit and, although this is an assumption, I'm sure once he gained that reputation guys would pick their spots on finishing their checks on him. Guys finished their checks on Gretzky when they could. Here's Gretzky's buddy Messier finishing up on him:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHeDmp2Hz2o

    I think "jimrad" hit the nail on the head about Gretzky. He wasn't the most physically gifted player of all-time, not by any means. His hockey IQ was off the charts, a true anomaly. Lemieux/Orr are probably the only other players to play the game that even deserves comparison in that category.
  • cpamikecpamike Posts: 5,561 ✭✭✭
    I agree from experience both giving and receiving checks takes a lot out of you. You have to pick your spots unless you are not a skill player than you hit anything you can...LOL. A player like Gretzky, Denis Savard, etc. didn't want to expend energy checking anyone, but to stay in constant motion. As has already been said, I also saw Gretzky get checked good from time to time, but he had the greatest vision of any player to play the game and knew how to avoid checks when he could as well as how to take a check.
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep."

    "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."

    Collecting:
    Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
  • PowderedH2OPowderedH2O Posts: 2,443 ✭✭
    Of course, not a lot of guys laid out Scott Stevens either, and he never avoided a hit in his career.
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  • nightcrawlernightcrawler Posts: 5,110 ✭✭


    << <i> For Cherry that's sacrilegious and he never wastes an opportunity to knock Gretzky down a peg, if only to protect Orr's legacy. >>



    I'm good with that. image



    Honestly though, I always thought McCreary's hit was the end of his career. This is the first time ever that I hear and read about it being BS. And I have to admit that it's been a huge factor in my opinion about Gretzky.

    I just watch the games though, I pay no attention at all to what goes on behind the scenes or in the hockey world. My knowledge is sheltered in that way.

    I still haven't read the links, but I will ..
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