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Help with a 1878 $3 Gold-Is this Unc., AU or what?

CoinspongeCoinsponge Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I am not sure about this coin. The luster is kind of patchy. I don't trust my own opinion so thought someone might know these coins well here. Any thoughts? Sorry the pic is not real clear. I don't have a very good photo setup but any thoughts would be appreciated.
p.s. I know you have to see both sides but the reverse seems better and I though the obverse is where I might have trouble.



image
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.

Comments

  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the main problem is that it is not been certified.
    Sorry but coins in that price range should not be considered until professionally graded IMO.
    image
    My Current project....https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/album/160794
  • CoinspongeCoinsponge Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭
    Good advise but doesn't help here.
    Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,834 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd be concerned with authenticity before I'd worry about grade.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • CoinspongeCoinsponge Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'd be concerned with authenticity before I'd worry about grade. >>



    Speaking in general terms or do you see a specific reason here?
    Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry but reading that PCGS says small gold is the most counterfeited items they have encountered I think even a expert is going to need very much higher quality images to render any assistance on this item.
    The fact that it is authentic and unmolested i.e. cleaned or puttied or whatever has to be determined prior to rendering a grade.
    My Current project....https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/album/160794
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭
    There's weakness in the details in the hair, and what appear could be depressions on the cheek...I vote counterfeit, but I'd really need to see it in hand to know for sure.




    -Paul
    NGC 2.1 Census! PM me yours!
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,834 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I'd be concerned with authenticity before I'd worry about grade. >>



    Speaking in general terms or do you see a specific reason here? >>



    Speaking in general. I would hesitate to authenticate a gold coin without better pics but nothing on your coin would lead me to believe it's counterfeit. Appears to be AU55 give or take a grade.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,834 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>......and what appear could be depressions on the cheek... >>



    Those appear to be contact marks.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • PQueuePQueue Posts: 901 ✭✭✭
    How many of the "counterfeit" voters own a $3 Gold? Honestly, you can't tell from the pic, looks real but lighty cleaned/wiped from what I see. Appears to have lines in the fields 9:00 to 3:00. Is it residing in a plastic container?
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>......and what appear could be depressions on the cheek... >>



    Those appear to be contact marks. >>



    Certainly a possibility, but again, the picture is nowhere near good enough to tell for sure what they are.



    -Paul
    NGC 2.1 Census! PM me yours!
  • CoinspongeCoinsponge Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭
    I am pretty sure it is authentic. There is a shelf around the 3 on the reverse and the mouth on the obverse. Also JBL is pretty crisp and clear at the base of the neck. I would think a transfer die would wipe out that detail.
    Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082 ✭
    EF/AU
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I am pretty sure it is authentic. There is a shelf around the 3 on the reverse and the mouth on the obverse. Also JBL is pretty crisp and clear at the base of the neck. I would think a transfer die would wipe out that detail. >>




    What about the denticles around "STATES"? They look rather toothy to me....


    -Paul
    NGC 2.1 Census! PM me yours!
  • CoinspongeCoinsponge Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭
    I checked with PCGS coin facts and comparing with the MS65 there, the denticle directly above the "A" in "States" has a very small bridge across to the adjacent denticles like a short die crack and this coin has one too. It barely shows in the photo even though it is a bit out of focus. I don't think counterfeiters are that good on these.
    Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,416 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very probably real and unc, but maybe cleaned.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I checked with PCGS coin facts and comparing with the MS65 there, the denticle directly above the "A" in "States" has a very small bridge across to the adjacent denticles like a short die crack and this coin has one too. It barely shows in the photo even though it is a bit out of focus. I don't think counterfeiters are that good on these. >>




    Good detective work! You are probably correct then.


    -Paul
    NGC 2.1 Census! PM me yours!
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,834 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Very probably real and unc, but maybe cleaned. >>



    The numerous hairlines and tick marks would indicate light circulation but this is all conjecture without better pics of both sides of the coin. This coin would definitely benefit from a trip to one of the major TPG's.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    my first thought was AU cleaned.
  • CoinspongeCoinsponge Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Very probably real and unc, but maybe cleaned. >>




    That is what concerns me most about this one. I have not got my cleaning detections skills down yet. It is pretty brilliant showing no toning but it is uniformly brilliant at least. Just don't know if I could handle a "genuine" slab on this but may give it a shot. I appreciate everyones input.
    Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
  • DorkGirlDorkGirl Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭


    << <i>my first thought was AU cleaned. >>



    Yeah, me too.
    Becky
  • stealerstealer Posts: 4,035 ✭✭✭✭
    Looks wiped

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