1991 Chris Hoiles Variaton PSA 10 (1/1)

richtree

Hey guys,

I know there isn't a solid answer, but I will just ask for conversation sake. How do you determine a card's value when it is a pop 1.

I have the 1991 Chris Hoiles Variaton PSA 10 (1/1). I put it up for sale on ebay, but then removed it because I am struggling with the price.

I have finally decided to let some of my rare variations go, as long as I don't sell for a cheap buck.

1991 Chris Hoiles Variaton regularly sells in the 80-150 range and some have been as low as 50 but some as high as 200.

I have the only PSA 10 graded of the "White inner frame" or "Grey inner frame" depending on who you ask.

It is a topps variation, and some say that there are very limited quantities of this card.

I have been offered up to 150 already without really "shopping" it, so is there a formula or anything that you would use???

Say highest sale X's 2 ...? since there isn't a SMR value.....


thanks peeps!!!

RipublicaninMass

At what price would you sell it no questions asked? If you got 150 I would say 300 BO if you would be psyched to get 300...for a common

richtree

Yeah, my no questions asked price would be 300.

But I am also trying to be fair.

It is hard to find the balance.

Many buyers don't want to guess themselves, making the offers all over the place.

RipublicaninMass

you have to find that ONE guy who cant live without that card and will pay all the money for it. I think BIN/BO at 300 would get them to come out of the woodwork, JMO

richtree

Yeah, I guess I will do that again, and just hope someone finds it.....


thanks

richtree

just put it up on the bay...hopefully people offer ...we will see the result and I will report back


thx for help

bking

I'm setting the O/U on 10 minutes before some board comic sends you a $10 BO.

richtree

<< <i>I'm setting the O/U on 10 minutes before some board comic sends you a $10 BO. >>



Good thing you said that I just set the min offer for 100 so I don't get all those 10 , 20 , 30 buxks bids., lol


thanks for the reminder

dontippet

Personally, I would make it an auction with a starting bid of $300 just in case there are two buyers that need this card. Last time I had something like this, I started the bidding at $180 which was SMR and it sold for $1,025. By starting at $300, if someone must have it, they can bid $300. If two people must have it, then it could go much higher. If it doesn't sell, then list it as a buy it now for $300 with a best offer option.

slantycouch

Wow, so hard to say with cards like that. A major, "accepted" Topps variation from a time when variations weren't on purpose... ha

I think you did a smart thing by listing it high and seeing what comes to you.

Hope you're selling because you want to and not because you have to. You've got a great e/v collection.

WinPitcher

Rich

Did you get Jacksons take on it?

CDsNuts

If a raw one will sell around $150, $300-$400 isn't out of line.

If you put it at $300 bin/obo you're never going to get $300 for it. A better move would be $600 obo, which leaves you open to offers of $300-$500.

bking

<< <i>If a raw one will sell around $150, $300-$400 isn't out of line.

If you put it at $300 bin/obo you're never going to get $300 for it. A better move would be $600 obo, which leaves you open to offers of $300-$500. >>



Isn't there a 'list an auction for $.25' special running the next two days?

justmichael

No disrespect to the OP but is this card actually rare or is it just cause no one knows to look for one?
Mike

richtree

<< <i>No disrespect to the OP but is this card actually rare or is it just cause no one knows to look for one?
Mike >>



I would gladly poll the board to see if anyone has one???


ANYONE??????????????

Barfvader

<< <i>

<< <i>No disrespect to the OP but is this card actually rare or is it just cause no one knows to look for one?
Mike >>



I would gladly poll the board to see if anyone has one???


ANYONE?????????????? >>



No disrespect but how does that answer his question?

richtree

<< <i>Rich

Did you get Jacksons take on it? >>



He has been MIA for awhile....

richtree

<< <i>Wow, so hard to say with cards like that. A major, "accepted" Topps variation from a time when variations weren't on purpose... ha

I think you did a smart thing by listing it high and seeing what comes to you.

Hope you're selling because you want to and not because you have to. You've got a great e/v collection. >>




Actually ran into a little problem that I need to address. Due to this I have to sell many cards, until the problem is solved. I have to move the rare stuff, sold my black box Mike Witt and now slowly selling more and more until I have the money I need for the time being.

It really sucks, but its life...

richtree

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>No disrespect to the OP but is this card actually rare or is it just cause no one knows to look for one?
Mike >>



I would gladly poll the board to see if anyone has one???


ANYONE?????????????? >>



No disrespect but how does that answer his question? >>



Barf,

I am sure everyone on this board has some 91 topps, or at least most of us. This and the Whiten were pulled very early in production. Not only that most came from wax or grocery jumbo types maybe minty fresh copies even harder......

I would think that there is a small amount out there, and PSA 10 -- would be very rare...

RipublicaninMass

but how many people really want or need it? Maybe Lee was right at starting higher, but it might put off some buyers

Barfvader

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>No disrespect to the OP but is this card actually rare or is it just cause no one knows to look for one?
Mike >>



I would gladly poll the board to see if anyone has one???


ANYONE?????????????? >>



No disrespect but how does that answer his question? >>



Barf,

I am sure everyone on this board has some 91 topps, or at least most of us. This and the Whiten were pulled very early in production. Not only that most came from wax or grocery jumbo types maybe minty fresh copies even harder......

I would think that there is a small amount out there, and PSA 10 -- would be very rare... >>



Rich,

Wouldn't the bolded text above have been a better response to have given justmichael instead of the let's see how many here have one?

I mean it was a legitimate question and makes more sense to educate people on the errors/variations of the junk years when asked but I'm weird that way as if a question is asked I will share whatever knowledge I have on the subject to the best of my ability.

richtree

<< <i>but how many people really want or need it? Maybe Lee was right at starting higher, but it might put off some buyers >>




Yeah, probably alot of people want it, but since its in that modern era, they aren't looking yet, or prioritize vintage first., etc...


Hopefully they do want it !!!!!!!!!!! LoL

richtree

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>No disrespect to the OP but is this card actually rare or is it just cause no one knows to look for one?
Mike >>



I would gladly poll the board to see if anyone has one???


ANYONE?????????????? >>



No disrespect but how does that answer his question? >>



Barf,

I am sure everyone on this board has some 91 topps, or at least most of us. This and the Whiten were pulled very early in production. Not only that most came from wax or grocery jumbo types maybe minty fresh copies even harder......

I would think that there is a small amount out there, and PSA 10 -- would be very rare... >>




I really wanted to see who had them,., thats all., lol....

Rich,

Wouldn't the bolded text above have been a better response to have given justmichael instead of the let's see how many here have one?

I mean it was a legitimate question and makes more sense to educate people on the errors/variations of the junk years when asked but I'm weird that way as if a question is asked I will share whatever knowledge I have on the subject to the best of my ability. >>

jacksoncoupage

Hey Rich,

Sorry I didn't get back sooner. But I have given it some thought:

Yes, the white border variations are scarce (by comparison), no idea if they were corrected early or just printed that way for a specific run (possibly one press out of however many Topps used had the plate set that way), I do know that I've only found them in $0.99 packs. That is also the best way to find mint 1991 Topps. The centering is usually great and the looser cello wrapping keeps them preserved nicely. Its also worth noting that Drabek usually sells for 2x what Hoiles does. I have opened boxes that contained 3 Hoiles and 1 Drabek (I do not believe he is SP'd, just poorly collated in my experienc.

That said, the fact that you found a 10 on that card is very impressive and I imagine its not going to happen very often, especially when you keep tabs on each copy that shows up on ebay - they generally look like 8s.

This variation is not too unknown these days. It's one of the top searched/viewed things each week on my blog, SCD now lists both it (from $0.20 to $6.00 now!) and the Drabek, and the best example of this is how frequently it shows up on ebay these days - not diminished rarity frequent, but not once a year to 18 months as it used to. People know about this card enough to establish whether or not they need it in their collections.

Keep in mind too, that your $150 quote is referring to the first few sales of this card 6-7 years ago. The error & variation market was booming, people were spending money on these cards and it's just not the same today - collecting priorities/error budgets have shifted to the truly scarce-documented stuff. I can think of maybe 2 sales of this card that hit over $50 in the last 3 years. I've seen them sell for $18 or $20 a few years ago too. Error card sales can fluctuate like nothing else, a card can get 0 bids one day and get relisted another and sell for $40! This makes it very difficult for buyers to find a comfortable cap. I believe that $25 low - $40 high is probably the current going rate on an ungraded Hoiles.

Now, your largest audience here would be a graded Topps set collector. Second would be a variation collector - many collect raw and would snap up a graded copy for the same or decent price but probably don't feel any need to pay 5 to 10x the going rate of a raw copy. Then your graded Topps set collector audience gets filtered down to those who care to own all the variations in their "junk years" sets. This is likely a very small community and when they see the Hoiles "books" for $6, they are probably going to think twice before making a substantial offer. Bottom line: you have a very limited audience for the card. It's possible that a few years, as more knowledge/info on these variations is gained/shared, the demand will come from a broader range of collectors.

And last, well, if the card were mine, I would want $300, maybe more. I think it's a stunning copy of a hard to find variation - a real tough accomplishment. But I'd know that right now it's not likely. I'd reluctantly settle for $150 (absolute lowest) if I had your time constraints, otherwise, I'd let it sit for as long as it takes with a BIN/BO until enough time passes and no other 10s show up, that someone finally steps up.

richtree

JC,


thanks for your insight. Hope everything has been ok. I mean, since you have been M.I.A. via email.

justmichael

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>No disrespect to the OP but is this card actually rare or is it just cause no one knows to look for one?
Mike >>



I would gladly poll the board to see if anyone has one???


ANYONE?????????????? >>



No disrespect but how does that answer his question? >>



Barf,

I am sure everyone on this board has some 91 topps, or at least most of us. This and the Whiten were pulled very early in production. Not only that most came from wax or grocery jumbo types maybe minty fresh copies even harder......

I would think that there is a small amount out there, and PSA 10 -- would be very rare... >>


The question i posed was serious.I asked because I didn't know the answer.Thanks for your second response.
Mike

richtree

buyer fell through so all 3 cards are back up for sale...

Hoiles on ebay

Nascar360

cool

richtree

they buyer fell through at 225 ....

so anyone wants this PM or email me richtree@gmail.com


thanks


so for spam

TmbrWolf22

A little OT....but I went to Chris Hoiles' high school. as a matter of fact, I grew up about a football field away from the school. I remember walking up there and wathcing his teams play High School ball when I was a kid. His family lived about 2 miles away from the school. They had a giant Oriole painted inside thier satalite dish....lol. It may still be there to this day....not sure.

good luck with the sale, and sorry to chime in, It is just nice to see a local boys card on these boards.

mcadams

<< <i>
Actually ran into a little problem that I need to address. Due to this I have to sell many cards, until the problem is solved. I have to move the rare stuff, sold my black box Mike Witt and now slowly selling more and more until I have the money I need for the time being.

It really sucks, but its life... >>




So you're selling your prized possessions for a few hundred bucks? Why not just put the expense on a credit card?

richtree

almost done with all the expenses.....


Just trying to figure out what to focus my collection on....seems like I have sooo many odd errors/variations and no one to share with.....

I always overpay for many of these.....so now I think I am gonna go after the really tougher, more expensive and make a display ....

Thinking of only going after really high end errors/variations/rarities.....


I think I have a couple cards that are super rare but no one wil pay for them because they are from junk era.....


guess I am trying to sure things up now after having to shell out so much money for my home and car...

bishop

What is the story on the 81 Topps Howe on your want list. ? I have not heard about that one

richtree

<< <i>What is the story on the 81 Topps Howe on your want list. ? I have not heard about that one >>



Beckett did an article/picture on the 81 Topps Art where there was black ink that ran on the card.

The black ink created a spot that caused the Howe to look like he was wearing a witch hat.

I was the high bidder at 70 bucks or so on this and someone must have sniped me our something and I lost it on ebay about a year or two ago.....

Since then I have never seen or heard of it from anyone......only seen it 2 times in 12 years

jacksoncoupage

This is a common occurrence printing error for Topps cards. Often times, when these ink spills or runs form an identifiable shape or aesthetically-pleasing shape, they get mis-labeled as variations, worse, they start to circulate in E&V master set lists. Dick Gilkeson's book is full of these type of production errors.

Rich, are you sure Beckett did an article on this? Or are you thinking of the letter they printed about that guy's stash of 1980 Topps Jack Clarks with the same type of flaw?

richtree

I am sure it was an article on errors cards... the witch hat was pictured....maybe it wasn't beckett and another guide...but I swear its beckett...


I ll try to double check...


ps -- jc check out the nnof thread ., i posted a yellow back King variations...