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Is 40% backing good or bad?

CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
These people seem inordinately proud of the fact that they hold about 40% of the silver that they have sold, which makes them better than the "paper silver" funds.

linky

What am I missing? Is it the fact that you need to own 10,000 ounces before you can redeem it? What am I missing?

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Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.

Comments

  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    Same thing happening to Oil. All speculation. I wonder if the average Joe trading 5000 bbl.s of Oil could actually take delivery of it, let's say, if he died and his family didn't know about the contracts held when they expired. Maybe they could put it in the ground with him?
    Speculators should be forced to take delivery of what they purchase when trading certain commodities. We'd see a huge diference in the way people put their $ to work. Speculators are a big part of the reason the Global economy is the way it is.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,793 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "Unitholders that own the equivalent dollar value of approximately ten 1,000 oz LGD silver bars, or more, have the ability to redeem their units for physical silver bullion." Translation: Account must be dollar valued at a minumum of 10,000 oz in order to use the redemption option. While you are investing in physical silver with this trust, they offer the delivery of physical only to their premier customers. Not all funds do this.

    "Approximately 98.9% of the Trust’s current net assets are invested in physical LGD silver bars." Their "units" are not ounces, they are shares which were valued at $15.30 at the time of the announcement (currently valued at $17). This explains the difference between the "units outstanding" and the 'total ounces held."

    Eric Sprott is a highly respected trader in the metals markets. He's one of the few anti-paper advocates and set this fund up especially for the those that agree with him. I would not hesitate to invest in one of his funds. According to the announcement this fund is 98.9% backed by LGD silver bars stored at the Royal Canadian Mint with delivery available to premier holders. The remaining 1.1% is probably accounted for in transactions in process. This fund is about as physical as you can get without having the metal in your hand. If you want physical but don't want the delivery and storage hassles this fund is as close as you can get.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • JoesMaNameJoesMaName Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭
    Maybe their units are less than half an ounce each? image

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What I read is that their fund is invested 98.99% in physical silver bars, not paper. Didn't see anything about 40%. Everything I've read or heard about this fund is that it is generally 100% backed by bullion with frequent audits/inventories required.

    In order to redeem your shares for bullion you need to have a substantial position (ie 10,000 oz or $360K). This is no different than most of these ETF's where they don't want the hassle of shipping out smaller quantities of silver to every Joe who wants it. If you want to buy a few 100 or 1,000 oz bars you'll have to get it from somewhere else. I believe the redemption level for GLD is 100,000 shares or about $14 MILL.

    This relatively new fund (and a competitor to SLV) was out there for months trying to find/buy silver to reach their 100% allocation amount (22 MILL ounces). This fund and others like it that carry a much higher NAV than more questionable bullion ETF's like GLD or SLV where it's not at all clear how much actual metal they have. If you want to ensure your bullion fund actually has the goods, then you pay more for that. Sprott has the goods. Note also that if you hold this fund for one year and then sell, your capital gains are only 15% and not the usual 28% that bullion sold at your B&M would be. Not sure I know why they get this expemption though.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • Even better would be a binary fund with NO holdings (less costs).

    i.e. say, e.g., pricce is $35. If you want to buy you put up $35 & similarly if you want to sell.

    As the price changes daily money gets transfered from one person to another. Fund also adds interest on "margin" to returns.

    Only orders that can be matched up with an opposite side get accepted.

    When price gets to $70 fund closes and starts anew.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,793 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fund was specifically set up for high end investors that want physical but do not want to have to store tens and hundreds of ounces of ounces of silver. An excellent product for the right type investor. Only appears to be a ponzi to those who think only in terms of tens and hundreds of ounces.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,793 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Note also that if you hold this fund for one year and then sell, your capital gains are only 15% and not the usual 28% that bullion sold at your B&M would be. Not sure I know why they get this expemption though. >>


    Probably because you have shares in a trust that invests in silver. Location in Canada may also be a contributing factor.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>"Unitholders that own the equivalent dollar value of approximately ten 1,000 oz LGD silver bars, or more, have the ability to redeem their units for physical silver bullion." Translation: Account must be dollar valued at a minumum of 10,000 oz in order to use the redemption option. While you are investing in physical silver with this trust, they offer the delivery of physical only to their premier customers. Not all funds do this.

    "Approximately 98.9% of the Trust’s current net assets are invested in physical LGD silver bars." Their "units" are not ounces, they are shares which were valued at $15.30 at the time of the announcement (currently valued at $17). This explains the difference between the "units outstanding" and the 'total ounces held."

    Eric Sprott is a highly respected trader in the metals markets. He's one of the few anti-paper advocates and set this fund up especially for the those that agree with him. I would not hesitate to invest in one of his funds. According to the announcement this fund is 98.9% backed by LGD silver bars stored at the Royal Canadian Mint with delivery available to premier holders. The remaining 1.1% is probably accounted for in transactions in process. This fund is about as physical as you can get without having the metal in your hand. If you want physical but don't want the delivery and storage hassles this fund is as close as you can get. >>



    OK, my bad, I assumed that one share was one ounce.
    Where does it explain that if I buy one share, how much silver do I own?
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,793 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You don't own silver. You own part of a trust that is 98.9% invested in physical silver. You have pooled your money with others that believe in physical metal, but choose not to take possession. Your value should increase (or decrease) at about the same percentage rate as the spot price of silver. In an account of this type it isn't a matter of how much silver you own. It is more a matter of how many dollars you have invested in the trust, is it a sound investment, and will it's value gain. As long as silver continues to climb an investment in this trust should continue to climb proportionately. This is an excellent way to hedge your dollars against their continuing decline. You can get in or out on a moment's notice by trading their symbol with your on-line brokerage account or phone it into your personal broker. Their 98.9% investment in silver tells me they have about a 1.1% overhead which includes them paying the Candian Royal Mint to store the bars.

    Once the dollar value of your account is equal to the current price of 10,000 ounces of silver you can then convert it to physical if you so choose. Until then you only have a claim on the trust itself that is equal to value of your account.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,824 ✭✭✭✭✭
    << Note also that if you hold this fund for one year and then sell, your capital gains are only 15% and not the usual 28% that bullion sold at your B&M would be. Not sure I know why they get this expemption though. >>

    Probably because you have shares in a trust that invests in silver. Location in Canada may also be a contributing factor.


    The tax benefit stems from the fact that it is a security and not a collectible or a commodity. As such, it would meet the criteria for a capital gains rate. With the high percentage in actual silver and the reputation of the founder, this is the exception to the rule that I would make about paper investments in general, under the current regime.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Got it.
    So it IS paper silver.
    Thanks.
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,793 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "But wait, there's more" - two kinds of paper: paper backed by actual physical silver that is set aside in a vault, and paper that is backed only by the integrity of the people selling it. The latter is nothing more than a bet for or against the price of silver with a bookie that you just have to trust. Sprott's fund is the "good" kind of paper. Keep in mind that a lot of people want to be "safely" invested in silver without having to deal with delivery and storage because of the quantity they are dealing with. This fund was set up specifically for this type of investor and is a perfect example that not all paper is bad paper.

    Eric Sprott is very outspoken about physical silver. I have no doubt that he made this as close as the real thing as possible while removing the headaches of delivery and storage from his investors.

    Sprott's Markets At A Glance

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i><< Note also that if you hold this fund for one year and then sell, your capital gains are only 15% and not the usual 28% that bullion sold at your B&M would be. Not sure I know why they get this expemption though. >>

    Probably because you have shares in a trust that invests in silver. Location in Canada may also be a contributing factor.


    The tax benefit stems from the fact that it is a security and not a collectible or a commodity. As such, it would meet the criteria for a capital gains rate. With the high percentage in actual silver and the reputation of the founder, this is the exception to the rule that I would make about paper investments in general, under the current regime. >>



    If I recall correctly GLD, also a security, is taxed at the 28% rate here in the US. The 15% may because what derryb already said. One must also file some paperwork to get that exemption.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,824 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My error - I didn't know that, about the exemption. Thanks derryb & roadrunner. The fund sounds pretty good if you need the service, (which many people do).

    So, nobody knows why the exemption? Seems there would be a rush by fund managers to get such an exemption to aid in selling their funds.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • JoesMaNameJoesMaName Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭
    Sounds like they're on the up & up - And though they are no doubt above board and oh-key doe-key, it's still someone else liability.
    I'm just not a big fan of paper right now, and am admittedly suspicious of any new-improved brands there of.
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