Did Pete Rose cards take a hit when the gambling accusations came out?

frankhardy

I have been heavily into the hobby since 2001. I collected as a kid in the 80s, but nothing serious. Ever since I have been in the hobby, it seems like vintage Pete Rose cards always do well. When the gambling stuff came out on him in the late 80's and when he got banned, did his cards take a hit?

otwcards

Surprisingly, I recall interest increasing. Prices dipped a little and quickly returned to the same levels.

The same cannot be said of Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Palmiero and eventually Pujols (J/K, but couldn't resist . . . ).

Stadium1978

The only price decrease I can remember was along the same lines as the drops of Nolan Ryan, Barry Sanders and similar athletes when they retired. It's less of a price decrease as a settling after unrealistic values at the end of their careers where there legendary stats were still growing.

Dpeck100

When Pete Rose was a player it was him playing the game.

When the steroid crew was playing it was their super hero alter ego's playing.


In 1985 we were heavily collecting the Topps and Fleer sets and the day I had to give my prized Pete Rose 85 Fleer to my older brother so he could complete his set I was heart broken.

ndleo

Pete Rose cards never really took a hit because most fans didn't view the allegations are bad as the media or Selig did. No one thought that the "lifetime" ban would have lasted as long as it has. I think Mantle had a lifetime ban under Kuhn due to casino work, but was reversed. Plus most sales occured at shows so pricing was somewhat controlled.

If ebay had been around then, the impact would have been more severe.

Vintage Rose cards always sell well. I still think they are undervalued.

WinPitcher

Mantle and Mays were both banned only for as long as they were affiliated with those casinos.

I'm not even sure it was called a lifetime ban. Steinbrenner on the other hand had a 2 or 3 year ban and then IIRC

a lifetime one (Winfield incident) and it was later lifted.

Rose cards never really took a big hit, his autos did (at least the modern ones) when it came out he was signing

every day, everything, which included 9 or 10 game used jerseys the day he broke the record. His cards had already

peaked when the allegations started to get more severe.

At least that is what I remember.

ThoseBackPages

Pete Rose and Nolan Ryan still have an amazing following in the card world vs their contemporaries

Stadium1978

<< <i>Pete Rose and Nolan Ryan still have an amazing following in the card world vs their contemporaries >>



Agreed. Thinking about the comments I made earlier, I may have confused "book value" with actual value.

ndleo

Mantle and Mays were place on the "permanently ineligible" list, the same list as Rose.

Selig should correct this injustice before he leaves the office.

rbdjr1

I just cannot understand why my "Pete Rose Talking Baseball Card", playable on any 33 1/3 RPM phonograph in Hi-Fi, took a hit?




rd

fkw

Yes, Rose used to be value a bit higher than Clemente, Koufax, Aaron, Mays for his 1960s cards.

The rookie was always a problem because of the numerous high quality counterfeits that surfaced in the mid 1980s.

Rose post career is a joke! Im surprized his value hasnt dropped more.... He is very overrated IMO even on the field, .303 career batting average with NO pop at all and NO speed. Pathetic .409 slug % for a guy that weighed 215#+
6 HRs in last 4,106 plate appearances.
for every 20 stolen bases he had, he was thrown out 15 times....
Carew, Brett, Gwynn, etc. were far more impressive.
Im sure you give any player 15,800+ plate appearances they are all going to get 4,000+ hits, woopy

diamondman

<< <i>Yes, Rose used to be value a bit higher than Clemente, Koufax, Aaron, Mays for his 1960s cards.

The rookie was always a problem because of the numerous high quality counterfeits that surfaced in the mid 1980s.

Rose post career is a joke! Im surprized his value hasnt dropped more.... He is very overrated IMO even on the field, .303 career batting average with NO pop at all and NO speed. Pathetic .409 slug % for a guy that weighed 215#+
6 HRs in last 4,106 plate appearances.
for every 20 stolen bases he had, he was thrown out 15 times....
Carew, Brett, Gwynn, etc. were far more impressive.
Im sure you give any player 15,800+ plate appearances they are all going to get 4,000+ hits, woopy >>



it's called Longevity, a lot of people thought Ripken should have been benched before he broke the record, and Aaron hung around a few years to long just to break Ruth's record, there can always be an argument that the record holder doesn't deserve the record.
Rose was charlie hustle and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame with all the other gamblers,drug addicts,alcoholics, racists, steroid bums, and all the other perverts, what they did on the field matters more than what they did off the field. Just ask hall of Famer OJ (the knife) Simpson. (now there is an argument for banning or removing someone from the hall). hello what, just got a phone call from Ty Cobb he said give OJ the juice or was that the noose couldn't make it out to well since it was long distance.

Albertdidit

<< <i>Yes, Rose used to be value a bit higher than Clemente, Koufax, Aaron, Mays for his 1960s cards.

The rookie was always a problem because of the numerous high quality counterfeits that surfaced in the mid 1980s.

Rose post career is a joke! Im surprized his value hasnt dropped more.... He is very overrated IMO even on the field, .303 career batting average with NO pop at all and NO speed. Pathetic .409 slug % for a guy that weighed 215#+
6 HRs in last 4,106 plate appearances.
for every 20 stolen bases he had, he was thrown out 15 times....
Carew, Brett, Gwynn, etc. were far more impressive.
Im sure you give any player 15,800+ plate appearances they are all going to get 4,000+ hits, woopy >>



Well he does have the most 200 hit seasons in the history of the game 10(tied with ichiro) Not so bad I guess you could say. After age 40 he lost a good amount of average (.310 at the time) which anyone would who played over 40 would.

No not the greatest hitter of all time just like Aaron wasnt really the Home Run King but not very overrated either.

rbdjr1

All-time Major League record for most career hits: 4,256
All-time Major League record for most games played: 3,562
All-time Major League record for most at bats: 14,053
All-time Major League record for most singles: 3,215
All-time Major League record for most total bases by a switch hitter: 5,752
All-time Major League record for most seasons of 200 or more hits: 10
All-time Major League record for most consecutive seasons of 100 or more hits: 23
All-time Major League record for most seasons with 600 or more at bats: 17
All-time Major League record for most seasons with 150 or more games played: 17
All-time Major League record for most seasons with 100 or more games played: 23
Only player in Major League history to play more than 500 games at five different Positions: 1B (939) 2B (628) 3B (634)LF (671) RF (595)
Major League record for playing in the most winning games: 1,972
All-time National League record for most years played: 24
All-time National League record for most consecutive years played: 24
All-time National League record for most career runs: 2,165
All-time National League record for most career doubles: 746
All-time National League record for most games with 5 or more hits: 10
Modern National League record for longest consecutive game hitting streak: 44
Modern National League Record for most consecutive game hitting streaks of 20 or more games: 7

53BKid

<< <i>All-time Major League record for most career hits: 4,256
All-time Major League record for most games played: 3,562
All-time Major League record for most at bats: 14,053
All-time Major League record for most singles: 3,215
All-time Major League record for most total bases by a switch hitter: 5,752
All-time Major League record for most seasons of 200 or more hits: 10
All-time Major League record for most consecutive seasons of 100 or more hits: 23
All-time Major League record for most seasons with 600 or more at bats: 17
All-time Major League record for most seasons with 150 or more games played: 17
All-time Major League record for most seasons with 100 or more games played: 23
Only player in Major League history to play more than 500 games at five different Positions: 1B (939) 2B (628) 3B (634)LF (671) RF (595)
Major League record for playing in the most winning games: 1,972
All-time National League record for most years played: 24
All-time National League record for most consecutive years played: 24
All-time National League record for most career runs: 2,165
All-time National League record for most career doubles: 746
All-time National League record for most games with 5 or more hits: 10
Modern National League record for longest consecutive game hitting streak: 44
Modern National League Record for most consecutive game hitting streaks of 20 or more games: 7 >>



Yep, but still a crook who bet on baseball games he coached.

Morgoth

the prices were pretty depressed around the time of PSA grading. I remember his 60s cards being either the most expensive in the set behind Mantle or a HOF RC (sometimes he was more) back in the 80s.

When PSA became popular his cards severly lagged behind Mays, Aaron, Clemente and Koufax which wasn't the case in the 80s.

Only in the last 5 or so years has his cards made huge bouncebacks in terms of value.

I for one remember buying a PSA 8 1964 Rose for about 100$ under what I paid for a Clemente back in 2001. Now there is about a 200$ swing in the opposite direction for those two cards.

CNote

I'm biased for sure, but if Ichiro had been able to start his career in the MLB, many of Rose's longevity records would be a distant second when Ichiro was all done....

ssollars

I'm not a baseball fan but I've been curious if he ever bet on his team to lose? If he did I could understand why a ban from baseball may be appropriate. However, I don't see a BIG issue if he always bet for them to win.

TheHun

<< <i>I'm biased for sure, but if Ichiro had been able to start his career in the MLB, many of Rose's longevity records would be a distant second when Ichiro was all done.... >>



I have not followed baseball so much lately - but how many World Series did Ichiro win ? Was / is he a switch hitter ? Has he played any other position ? Just asking.

I'm not sure if using steroids is less cheating than gambling on baseball - and I've never seen any evidence Rose bet to lose on his own team. I especially think the physical side of baseball is lacking since Rose left the game ... more pads and protection on hitters and catchers than grid iron football players.

bking

<< <i>I'm not a baseball fan but I've been curious if he ever bet on his team to lose? If he did I could understand why a ban from baseball may be appropriate. However, I don't see a BIG issue if he always bet for them to win. >>



Follow this logic: If he consistently bet on his team to win, then didn't bet at all on a given day, isn't that tipping the bookies that there may be a reason? Like a pitcher that's ailing, etc? That's why it doesn't matter much which side he bet on.

jwgators

<< <i>Follow this logic: If he consistently bet on his team to win, then didn't bet at all on a given day, isn't that tipping the bookies that there may be a reason? Like a pitcher that's ailing, etc? That's why it doesn't matter much which side he bet on. >>



That is something that I never thought about. Like most others, I thought betting to win is not a problem. Now with this logic, it makes the betting worse in my opinion.

CNote

<< <i>

<< <i>I'm biased for sure, but if Ichiro had been able to start his career in the MLB, many of Rose's longevity records would be a distant second when Ichiro was all done.... >>



I have not followed baseball so much lately - but how many World Series did Ichiro win ? Was / is he a switch hitter ? Has he played any other position ? Just asking.

I'm not sure if using steroids is less cheating than gambling on baseball - and I've never seen any evidence Rose bet to lose on his own team. I especially think the physical side of baseball is lacking since Rose left the game ... more pads and protection on hitters and catchers than grid iron football players. >>



No WS, not a switch hitter, and he's only the best fielding RF in the game. Not that any of that has to do with getting hits and legging out singles. Sure, Rose liked to dive head first to stretch a single into a double and all that; that was his style. That's what made him Charlie Hustle. Maybe betting on HIS games is why he hustled so much? He had to make sure they got that extra run, or put themselves into position to get it. At the plate, Ichiro > Rose.

zendude

It's a mystery that Rose cards still hold their value today. He has proven himself to be a giant douche bag for the last 25 years (50 If you count his playing career).

Morgoth

<< <i>

<< <i>I'm not a baseball fan but I've been curious if he ever bet on his team to lose? If he did I could understand why a ban from baseball may be appropriate. However, I don't see a BIG issue if he always bet for them to win. >>



Follow this logic: If he consistently bet on his team to win, then didn't bet at all on a given day, isn't that tipping the bookies that there may be a reason? Like a pitcher that's ailing, etc? That's why it doesn't matter much which side he bet on. >>



This was the problem, if you watched the horrible ESPN movie this is what enraged MLB. It became known in gambling circles that if Rose didn't bet to win on a game he felt his starter wasn't going to win or the matchups were bad. This actually would move the betting lines around.

bking

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I'm not a baseball fan but I've been curious if he ever bet on his team to lose? If he did I could understand why a ban from baseball may be appropriate. However, I don't see a BIG issue if he always bet for them to win. >>



Follow this logic: If he consistently bet on his team to win, then didn't bet at all on a given day, isn't that tipping the bookies that there may be a reason? Like a pitcher that's ailing, etc? That's why it doesn't matter much which side he bet on. >>



This was the problem, if you watched the horrible ESPN movie this is what enraged MLB. It became known in gambling circles that if Rose didn't bet to win on a game he felt his starter wasn't going to win or the matchups were bad. This actually would move the betting lines around. >>



Yep...