Here we go again... PSA 8 with a wrinkle

CrazyMind2017 · February 22, 2011 7:20AM

Ugggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh! All I want is a PSA 8 of a certain card that is a reasonably decent example for the grade - not a card that is undergraded, but not something with a severe tilt or diamond cut that technically meets the requirements for an 8 but has horrible eye appeal. Also not a card with a wrinkle missed by the grader that is visible to the naked eye through the holder without even so much as a flashlight. And at a PSA 8 price.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

thanks for listening

Sean1125 · February 22, 2011 7:21AM

Any time.

ThoseBackPages · February 22, 2011 8:05AM

Gotta be an Eddie

mike22y2k · February 22, 2011 8:16AM

We all pay PSA to grade cards. It really sucks when the experts miss stuff so simple. I'm always disappointed when I get a card that is over graded. It seems to be happening more and more these days. I feel your pain.

Mike

Griffins · February 22, 2011 8:23AM

wonder if it was a wrinkle that somone pressed out, only to have it return after grading. Certainly happened before.

Nathaniel1960 · February 22, 2011 9:07AM

Kelloggs cards will crack after being slabbed. Stay Clear!!

CrazyMind2017 · February 22, 2011 11:15AM

I think kicking a hole in the wall is most definitely called for in this situation!!!

I suppose it's a wrinkle that could have been pressed out and then came back, but it's small enough that I think the grader probably just missed it.

At first I thought it might just be a scratch on the plastic, but the wrinkle moves with the card. It doesn't have the T/B centering to bump to a 9, but the L/R centering is great and the corners are sharp. If not for this wrinkle, it could potentially get a bump to 8.5. Instead it's a 4 with a PSA 8 flip.

CrazyMind2017 · February 22, 2011 12:11PM

Message to seller:

Hi I know the listing says no returns, but this card has a problem. There's a small wrinkle that's visible to the naked eye through the holder without so much as a flashlight. It's very small, but it's definitely there. At first, I was hoping it was just a light scratch on the outside of the plastic, but unfortunately, that is not the case. The card should grade no higher than 4 according to PSA grading standards. I have no idea if the grader just missed it, or if someone pressed the wrinkle out before submitting (not accusing anyone, since I have no idea who submitted it) and it has once again reared its ugly head after the card was slabbed in the holder. It's just above and to the left of the first "O" in Orioles. From what I understand, PSA will compensate anyone who sends in a card that is drastically overgraded. I'd send it myself, but there are considerable shipping costs involved, so I'd like to just send it back to you. Please advise. Thank you.

In other exciting news, the diamond cut card that I received last week that technically meets the requirements for an 8 but it is flat out ugly is getting sent back to me after I sold it the other day. Apparently the case suffered a two-inch crack during shipment. Hopefully the card isn't damaged when I get it back. If the guy was pissed about the diamond cut, I hope he didn't intentionally put a crack in the case just to use as an excuse to send it back. What a nightmare.

handyman · February 22, 2011 12:18PM

can we get a pic

ThoseBackPages · February 22, 2011 12:32PM

a run of bad luck for sure.

How many 8's do you own of the card so far?

CrazyMind2017 · February 22, 2011 12:50PM

<< a run of bad luck for sure.

How many 8's do you own of the card so far? >>

Just these two... plus that raw one that I bought at a show for $40 back in November, about a week before I joined this forum. I haven't sent it in yet, and I'm still holding out hope that it comes back as an 8, but with my luck, it will be a 6. And two low-grade cards that came in as part of complete sets that I bought, but I expected them to be bad. I got those sets for under $100 each, all 726 cards.

CrazyMind2017 · February 22, 2011 12:53PM

<< can we get a pic >>

Admittedly it's very small and light and does not even show through on the back of the card, so it doesn't scan or photograph well.

Those two little white dots are really all that show up from the wrinkle on the scan.

This is approximately where the entire wrinkle is. It starts over where that tiny chip is on the edge and then moves inward about 3/8 inch.

ThoseBackPages · February 22, 2011 1:07PM

yea, cant see it in the scan.
are you sure its a wrinkle and not a fish-eye?

CrazyMind2017 · February 22, 2011 1:17PM

Those would be really small fish eyes, LOL. A typical fish eye on this issue is about the width of the entire orange border.

There's some extremely slight discoloration in the scan when it's enlarged of the wrinkle. Notice just to the left of the left dot, there's some darkness in the orange stripe, and just to the right of the right dot, there's some darkness in the white area. It would be impossible to know just by looking at the scan, but when I look at it with my own eyes, I see the wrinkle there. The scanner just doesn't do a good job picking it up.

ThoseBackPages · February 22, 2011 1:23PM

yea, its just not viewable online. i even tried "negative" on it and not much to see

CrazyMind2017 · February 22, 2011 1:34PM

Try embossing. The wrinkle is small and not deep, but it's noticeable in ordinary light when I let the light reflect off of it at just the right angle.

ThoseBackPages · February 22, 2011 1:41PM

interesting.

Tell me this though....how does the card look? overall eye appeal? i've recently gotten in some 9's that there is no way in hell that i'd self submit if i owned them raw.

im wondering if "overall eye-appeal" is a huge factor for psa, since they do not list subs

ThoseBackPages · February 22, 2011 1:42PM

CrazyMind2017 · February 22, 2011 1:49PM

Overall eye appeal is fantastic on this card. T/B centering is just off by enough to prevent it from being a 9. L/R centering is 50/50 or damn near close.

Other than T/B centering and the wrinkle, it could maybe even be a 10.

Are you saying maybe the grader saw the wrinkle and didn't care because it's so small and light and eye appeal is really good? Am I making a mountain out of a molehill again? Maybe I should just live with it and keep the card. I mean, if I bought this card raw and intended to keep it raw, this wrinkle wouldn't bother me at all. It's just that the grading standards are clear that it can't be an 8 if it has this problem.

CrazyMind2017 · February 22, 2011 1:56PM

Actually I take that back... I looked at it more closely, and T/B centering is really no worse than about 60/40.

Here's a large 600dpi scan, untouched and never been modified or size adjusted.

large scan

ThoseBackPages · February 22, 2011 2:09PM

See what the seller says. i dont think you're going to find a much better looking PSA 8 though and depending on what it cost, i think you should hang on to it.

CrazyMind2017 · February 22, 2011 2:17PM

Yeah, I'm starting to think the same thing. Originally, I saw all that white at the top and I thought the T/B centering was what caused it to be an 8, and that the grader likely missed the wrinkle.

The more that I look at it and think about it, the grader probably saw the wrinkle, and that might be the only thing that kept it from being a 9. There's also some very light chipping on the right edge, but I don't think that's overly significant. I paid $50 even shipped.

If there were no explicit standards and guidelines, and I was grading this card myself and just giving it a number from 1 to 10 and going on gut instinct, I would definitely call it 8 or 9, even with the wrinkle.

But if what we're both saying is true, then why should PSA bother having explicit and specific standards if they're not going to follow them? It's all so damn stupid!!! Going by the written guidelines, this card is probably a 4, MAYBE at best a 5.

handyman · February 22, 2011 2:34PM

What did you pay for the card? If he doesnt take it back I will. Looks like a nice 8 to me. Ive seen cards come out of packs with what you describe and from what it looks like its not that bad. But I love 50-50 centetred cards and I will buy this off you if you want.
Just PM me , Ill pay you 50.00

ThoseBackPages · February 22, 2011 2:39PM

id like to add that i like PSA and as of 2011, i am 99% PSA, if not higher. That being said, they are (like all three companies) not perfect.

look at this RJ

left border, half way down. yep, a stain. if i owned that raw, i would not submit it myself, as i collect 9's (but dont reject 10's

) and i don't think that's a 9

handyman · February 22, 2011 2:42PM

Man we have some picky people.
Ill take the eddie off your hands please. I have a 9 PD but this looks like a nice 8 to me

CrazyMind2017 · February 22, 2011 2:47PM

<< What did you pay for the card? If he doesnt take it back I will. Looks like a nice 8 to me. Ive seen cards come out of packs with what you describe and from what it looks like its not that bad. But I love 50-50 centetred cards and I will buy this off you if you want.
Just PM me , Ill pay you 50.00 >>

Thanks for the offer. I'm going to think about it for a little while if that's ok. The curveball here is the raw one I'm planning to submit. If it comes back an 8, I'll probably be eager to sell this one. For now, I'm leaning towards holding on to it, at least for a little while.

The raw one has a slight touch on two of the corners and some minor chipping on the right edge, so it will probably get knocked down for that, but the centering is just as nice as this graded one.

<< left border, half way down. yep, a stain. if i owned that raw, i would not submit it myself, as i collect 9's (but dont reject 10's

) and i don't think that's a 9 >>

And someone posted a couple days ago that cards don't get a bonus for perfect centering... maybe not according to the written standards, but the evidence says otherwise. Is that a wax stain or what?

ThoseBackPages · February 22, 2011 2:50PM

<< left border, half way down. yep, a stain. if i owned that raw, i would not submit it myself, as i collect 9's (but dont reject 10's

) and i don't think that's a 9 >>

And someone posted a couple days ago that cards don't get a bonus for perfect centering... maybe not according to the written standards, but the evidence says otherwise. Is that a wax stain or what? >>

Centering is without a doubt in my mind, THE #1 thing when it comes to PSA. as for the RJ, it's not a wax stain, it's almost like an oil stain, or a speck of something.

vladguerrero · February 22, 2011 2:50PM

i would like to see more penis drawings

CrazyMind2017 · February 22, 2011 2:53PM

<< i would like to see more penis drawings >>

LOLOLOL how about a chandelier?

not embedded due to potential inappropriateness according to puritans and hypocrites

so you have to click to see

CrazyMind2017 · February 22, 2011 3:02PM

<< Man we have some picky people. >>

And therein lies the problem. As a result of PSA hitting some cards hard for what most collectors would consider minor flaws, it's almost like we've been trained to be extremely picky as submitters. But the inconsistency of the grading creates anomalies on both ends of the spectrum. Cards that should technically grade no higher than 4 are put in 8 or 9 slabs. Cards that have the eye appeal to be a 9 or even 10 sometimes end up in 5 slabs. I understand that mistakes are going to happen, but they should be minimized as much as possible. And the best way to do that is by using a strict interpretation of the written grading standards, which would basically result in all graders being very picky. It's easy for skeptics, haters, and conspiracy theorists to speculate that all overgraded cards must have been sent in by one of the large submitters like 4SC and that it was just a freebie that PSA handed to them.

Dialj · February 22, 2011 3:37PM

I understand that mistakes are going to happen, but they should be minimized as much as possible. And the best way to do that is by using a strict interpretation of the written grading standards, which would basically result in all graders being very picky.

I feel your pain, but I would being willing to bet that with the total (i.e. sports and non-sports) number of cards that PSA is handling on a daily basis, the percentage of cards that get put in the wrong holder is extremely small. There is probably some type of written guide lines that assist the grader (who is looking at thousands of cards). Should PSA hire some more graders (qualified ones), probably (it mighe even make a dent in the unemployment rating), but for now it is what it is. JMO

RonBurgundy · February 22, 2011 11:12PM

Hard to tell from your scan but it's possible that PSA is not deeming it a wrinkle. I've had cards with surface bumps or indentations that they ignored, and I thought rightfully so. There are other flaws, however, that they will hammer.

So it's possible their definition of wrinkle and yours may not be the same.

itzagoner · February 22, 2011 11:31PM

interesting.

i received a beautiful vintage card recently, and upon close inspection i discovered what i like to refer to as a "raised area" or perhaps a light crimp on the reverse of the card.....it's not a wrinkle or a crease, but it is detectable under bright light and has kind of a wavy appearance for about maybe half an inch, but doesn't penetrate the front of the card.

i suppose it will be enough to push my curiosity towards at least one attempt at grading with the hopes of PSA 7, but of course a 5 or a 6 wouldn't surprise me.

the bottom line, to be sure, is that i truly like the card and intend to keep it whether slabbed or not.

be honest about what really appeals to you about your card.

do you really want it because it's pretty or are you simply buying a grade?

Here we go again... PSA 8 with a wrinkle

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