Home World & Ancient Coins Forum

Gentlemen , The Queen

Is there anything more pleasing (with obvious exceptions) than meandering through shipments of World Silver coinage bought in bulk at low rates ? Coins one has perhaps never seen before and always a surprise or two.I'll post pics tonight of a few , in the meantime , i give you Her Majesty , anyone care to have a crack at whats on the reverse ?

image

Comments

  • HussuloHussulo Posts: 2,953 ✭✭✭
    As I am standing and saluting, I'll guess Straits Settlements or Mauritius 10 cents (they have a similar obverse) but I don't know if the Heaton mint struck Straits Settlements 10 cents without referring to a book.

    image

  • HTubbsHTubbs Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭


    << <i>As I am standing and saluting, I'll guess Straits Settlements or Mauritius 10 cents (they have a similar obverse) but I don't know if the Heaton mint struck Straits Settlements 10 cents without referring to a book.

    image >>



    I was going to say Straits Settlements, there actually are a number of Heaton Mint 10c.
  • Well done Lads ,

    image
  • Queen, gentlemen:

    image

    image

    (with apologies to my random hotlinking victims)
  • Ahhhh..Sheer Heart Attack was one of the first albums i bought , truly a great band. I'll take this opportunity to post another wee gem from the silver bag today.

    image
  • Nice silver bag. Any more for sale?image Great looking shilling. My oldest is a 1949. Don't have a silver one yet.
    Olmanjon
    Proud recipiant of the Lord M "you suck award-March-2008"
    http://bit.ly/bxi7py
  • I'll ask him for you when i email this evening,he is overseas and hesitant to mail coins but a real gentleman when trust is established.

    image
    image
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ahh, so you mean the Vickie who's in dire STRAITS, eh? I could've guessed that. (Edit- and I would've been wrong- I just now on the third look happened to see that your coin is from Mauritius and not the Straits. I plead tunnel vision, since I only collect 1901 Vickies and Mauritius didn't issue Victorian portrait coins in that year.)

    Here are some Straits pieces with similar portrait.

    image

    image

    image

    I still need the 1901 50c for my daughter's set, and there's room for upgrading to the ones above, particularly that 5c. I'm fairly happy with the 10c and so-so on the 20c. I sent the 10c (and I think maybe the 20c, too) off to NGC Wednesday. A 20-piece Victoria submission!

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh, silly me- I forgot the copper. image

    image

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • Which 1901's are on your to do list Lord M ? I come across quite a bit of British coinage and don't mind keeping an eye out for any you might require.

    image
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for askin'. Here is the 1901 Victoria set, such as it is presently.

    I guess we lack only six of the 45 coins needed for a 1901 British Empire Victoria portrait set,
    but there is still plenty of room for upgrades.

    As I alluded, 20 of the coins from the set went off to NGC recently, but since you mention the sixpence, that is one I already have in a slab
    (PCGS MS64 OGH, ex-Wybrit):

    image

    When I saw your thread about "The Queen", I instinctively knew which queen we were going to be discussing, and y'know she's dear to me heart, Ol' Vickie is. image

    (But not as dear as my young Victoria is, obviously.) image

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PS- I forgot to say, that Mauritius 20c in the OP is awfully nice, and if you got it in a bulk silver lot, I'd almost be willing to go out on a limb and call it worthy of a "you suck" comment. image

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • Thanks Lord M , you have a beautiful set there , why 1901 ? Seems the obvious question , ive bookmarked the page so if i come across 1901's i can reference and see if its one you are looking for.
    Yes , the Mauritius came with a load of World Silver , im pretty pleased to hear i almost suck as i dont have a Krause and have little idea of mintages or values , i got two of these 1877 and 1878.All the silver in this thread was from the same lot , ive only scratched the surface so far , the swiss and french silver is gorgeous too.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm doing 1901 because 1) I needed to focus on a single year or a Victorian type set would be well nigh impossible, 2) it fits nicely as the end of the Victorian era, and 3) my daughter Victoria, for whom I am building the collection, was born a century later in 2001.

    No Krause? Sounds like you need one.

    Your 1877-H Mauritius 20c goes $75 in XF and $300 in UNC by the 4th Edition (2004). It is .800 silver and .0600 oz.

    Yours looks like it might be an AU and should therefore be a $100+ coin to the right person, I would think.

    That clinches it. You suck.

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • Thanks Lord M , ive never had a you suck , did i mention theres two of them ? Both in the same condition,the other being 1878. I thought it would be the African coins that were scarce , id heard the 1920 florin is and more so with the A mintmark which mine doesnt have.
    I think your right i do need to get a krause and ive been kicking myself all night remembering id let a 3 dvd set of krauses go on ebay , id been bidding and dropped out,they sold for around 20 -25 bucks and i had a feeling i should have stayed with it. I found out tonight how big a mistake that was.

    Heres another wee star from the same lot , theres a few of these dime sized coins.
    image
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dime sized? 50-centime pieces, then. The ever popular "Sower" design, or "French Walker", to the Litesiders.

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • It is the Walker isnt it , even the sun and rays , pre WWl that one is. Im glad i seen you on tonight Lord M , i'm quite curious about this one , this is the sellers pic , i dont actually have the item , nor have i the foggiest idea what it might be.It seems to be a latin writing , ive no pic of the other side. Could you cast a suggestion as to what it might be ?

    image
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can't make out the lettering on that, but it looks like a jeton, possibly French, circa late 17th or early 18th century.

    Neat fountain design. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the bust of Louis XIV or Louis XV on the other side.

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AHA! I was darned close, but a little early in my estimated dates and monarchs.

    I pasted the picture into a program that allowed me to zoom in and read the reverse legend: OMNIBUS NON SIBI. With a Google search, I found such a jeton described here.



    << <i>Avers : LVD XVI D G FR ET NAV REX / Buste de du Roi

    Revers : OMNIBUS NON SIBI / Fontaine >>



    So the obverse will apparently have Louis the Sixteenth instead of one of the previous two kings named Louis. And sure enough, it's described as having the fountain on the reverse, just like that one. Too bad there is no picture of theirs. I see it was priced at 6 Euros, so it doesn't look like it's especially rare. But that price still seems absurdly cheap- perhaps it is an old web page.

    I found a few others here, described thusly:



    << <i>192 11807 GERMANY, jeton, ND bust L, LVD XVI D G FR ET NAV REX, REICH at truncation / fountain, OMNIBVS NON SIBI, Bs24, by J.C. Reich, 1758-1814, cor, aG $4.00
    192 11808 GERMANY, jeton, ND bust L, LVD XVI D G FR ET NAV REX, REICH at truncation / fountain, OMNIBVS NON SIBI, Bs24, by J.C. Reich, 1758-1814, VF+ $16.00
    192 11809 GERMANY, jeton, ND bust L, LVD XVI D G FR ET NAV REX, REICH at truncation / fountain, OMNIBVS NON SIBI, Bs24, by J.C. Reich, 1758-1814, dark XF $19.00
    192 11810 GERMANY, jeton, ND bust L, LVD XVI D G FR ET NAV REX, REICH at truncation / fountain, OMNIBVS NON SIBI, Bs24, by J.C. Reich, 1758-1814, XF $21.00 >>



    Interesting that he attributes them as German, despite the Louis XVI legends alluding to France. Seems he knows what he's talkin' about, though.


    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • Fantastic information Lord M , thank you. I wasnt able to establish what it said entirely but reckoned it Latin. Thanks to you Sir i think we nailed it , i took your OMNIBUS NON SIBI and found this site with piccies omnibus non sibi

    My first thought is it's not the same token on seeing the fountain , its similar but different enough to dismiss , then i clicked the one with napoleon bonaparte , thats it i think.Which makes me wonder why a seller would elect to not post bonaparte in favour of an obscure fountain.Ive bought it now in the hope it was older but if its bonaparte on the flip side or any of the french kings im ok with it.Thanks again Lord M image
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bingo! You found it! Or at least something really, really close. I think the one in the picture you posted originally looks brass, like the one you just linked.

    I'll bet it has Louis on the other side instead of Napoleon, but with my not being an authority on medals of the period, who knows. My first impressions of it, as previously mentioned, were that it was older, from the reign of Louis XIV or Louis XV. But of course the French cranked out jetons for centuries.

    PS- I guess we've now strayed from your original title of "Gentlemen, The Queen". If that jeton has Louis XVI on it, you'll have to say, "Gentlemen, The King". Or perhaps, Madames et Messeurs, Le Roi. Or Madames et Messeurs, L'Empereur if it turns out to be Napoleon, eh? image

    PPS- that Napoleonicmedals.org website you linked to belongs to a forum member whose name is Vern, though his forum name eludes me for the moment. No, wait- I think it is "elverno". Haven't seen him around these parts in some time, unfortunately. Cool guy.

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • You know Lord M , i won't be surprised too much if there's something on the other side neither of us expect to see.I know the sellers habits and i can't fathom why a picture of the fountain rather then the obverse.To my mind a picture of the French King or Bonaparte is going to bring more bids than leaving it as a mystery item.
    He does by habit only put one picture up and i can only surmise it's to save a few bucks , i can see how that would backfire in a big way.Ive tried to bring this fella over to the forum and sent many links to let him see but he is old school and zero patience for much other than selling off a lifetime collection to leave money for his kids.He is afraid if he leaves the coins they get ripped off.For all i know he is reading but not posting , he has some of the nicest UK bronze pennies ive ever seen.
  • Here we are me'lud , you were right , you win a coconut : )

    image
    image
  • Yep, that's a French jeton. It looks like a private or locally minted issue, as the portrait is more crude than the official issues of Louis XVI, and most local issues aren't dated from what I've seen so far. The locally issued jetons aren't in Mitchiner's book, so I can't really add much to what you already have from Rob.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ooh, I won a coconut. image

    I shall now proceed to crack it over my skull, which should no doubt please some folks.

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • Thanks FB , i'm in the same boat and know even less , can i ask ..what were these used for ? Ive had jettons in the past and they were so thin it was patently obvious it could never have been a coin.This one isnt anywhere near as thin , maybe about dimelike.


  • << <i>Ooh, I won a coconut. image

    I shall now proceed to crack it over my skull, which should no doubt please some folks. >>



    Good evening Lord M , you were spot on Sir , there he is ol'Louis himself..mind you there's so many i don't know who's who but that'll be him of the 16th type.Gotta say i quite like it even if i dont really know what it was for.


  • << <i>Thanks FB , i'm in the same boat and know even less , can i ask ..what were these used for ? Ive had jettons in the past and they were so thin it was patently obvious it could never have been a coin.This one isnt anywhere near as thin , maybe about dimelike. >>




    Well, by the time this one was issued, jetons were given as prizes or bonuses for whichever purpose they were issued. By that I mean, some were issued as bonuses and given to higher employees at companies or govenment offices. Some were issued for events, such as political gatherings and the like. I suspect that this one was probably for the latter, commemorating an event of some sort.

    In fact, here's a clip from my jeton thread from some time past, although this was for official mintings, it still should be somewhat relative to private mintings--



    << <i>There were many different recipients of officially manufactured jetons. Here is a basic list, although there are many subcategories to each department listed.


    1. Central Administration (includes the following) -

    King's Administration (Includes the king's council, justice, secretaries, etc.)

    Royal Finances (Includes the king's treasurers, accounting, etc.)

    Military

    The Royal Estate

    The Royal Family

    French Colonies

    Department of the City of Paris

    Institutions of Paris (Includes finances, civic officials, churches and clergy, academies, and corporations)


    2. Provincials (Includes private bodies)

    3. Municipalities of Paris
    >>

  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Back in the 17th century, and for all I know, as late as the turn of the 18th/19th century when that piece was struck, some jetons were used as mathematical counters. Others served as gaming counters (read: poker chips). I suppose others served some sort of commemorative function.

    The only time I know of where jetons might have actually served as money was in the early settlement at Jamestown (Virginia). The archaeologists there found some Hans Krauwinckel Nuremberg jetons that may have served as coins in a cash-strapped new colony (but then again, I suppose they could have been used as counters there, too.)

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.


  • << <i>Back in the 17th century, and for all I know, as late as the turn of the 18th/19th century when that piece was struck, some jetons were used as mathematical counters. Others served as gaming counters (read: poker chips). I suppose others served some sort of commemorative function.

    The only time I know of where jetons might have actually served as money was in the early settlement at Jamestown (Virginia). The archaeologists there found some Hans Krauwinckel Nuremberg jetons that may have served as coins in a cash-strapped new colony (but then again, I suppose they could have been used as counters there, too.) >>





    Here is a nice little writeup about the jeton usage. Of course Rob is right about them being used as counters, and in fact that was their original purpose, but by the time this one was issued, they had transformed into more of a token than a tool.

    I believe there are even a couple of issues dedicated to the Americas, minted back around the 1770's. I have no doubt that they made it over here, for whatever purpose.

    Information is typically hard to come by as to purposes and mintages, so it's really a case-by-case search for info of these.
  • Fantastic information guys , thank you. One or two things nag me about it , in the link at the top of the page theres pics of several and they all have Jeton stamped on the reverse whereas this one i have doesnt and clearly never had. I don't dispute it is indeed a Jeton , just strange mine is an odd one out with no Jeton worded as the pictured examples have.
    OMNIBUS NON SIBI is somewhat troublesome too as it doesnt appear to make sense or is worded wrong , trying to translate it i'm told it should read OMNIBUS NON SED SIBI which means not for one but for all. I wonder if its worded that way purposely as an injoke much like hard times tokens.I wonder if worded as is it might mean all for one so to speak in a pop at Louis 16th , thanks for the great information FB and Lord M , it's definatley given me something to do tonight.


  • << <i>Fantastic information guys , thank you. One or two things nag me about it , in the link at the top of the page theres pics of several and they all have Jeton stamped on the reverse whereas this one i have doesnt and clearly never had. I don't dispute it is indeed a Jeton , just strange mine is an odd one out with no Jeton worded as the pictured examples have.
    OMNIBUS NON SIBI is somewhat troublesome too as it doesnt appear to make sense or is worded wrong , trying to translate it i'm told it should read OMNIBUS NON SED SIBI which means not for one but for all. I wonder if its worded that way purposely as an injoke much like hard times tokens.I wonder if worded as is it might mean all for one so to speak in a pop at Louis 16th , thanks for the great information FB and Lord M , it's definatley given me something to do tonight. >>



    No problem at all. image I wouldn't sweat the lack of "jetton" on it, I've seen 'em both ways, with and without. It may have just depended on who was issuing it, I don't really know.

    Oh, and let us know if you find any more info on it. I read from a quick search that the latin translated to "not the one but for all", but that info came from another message board, so take that for what it's worth.image
  • Bumped out of the murky past for anothers perusal , sadly all the pics are now absent , i'll pm said other regarding same.
Sign In or Register to comment.