Just curious....what is the point in submitting a Proof Presidential Dollar coin to PCGS???

Goldbully

Is this practice nonsensical in your opinion???
It is in mine!!!!
Is there such thing as a 70?
Does anyone even care??

mingot

Yes, there are 70's. I think they are submitted in bulk. The 69's are dumped at a loss. The 70's hopefully make up the difference, then some.

golfer72

Thw word absurd comes to mind. These coins are essentially all identical. Paying money to a grading service to have a label affixed to them is dumb. Even dumber are the people who pay crazy money for these labels.

notwilight

<< <i>Thw word absurd comes to mind. These coins are essentially all identical. Paying money to a grading service to have a label affixed to them is dumb. Even dumber are the people who pay crazy money for these labels. >>



Yeah, the difference between a 64 and a 65 morgan isn't important either. After all, there are many more 80s morgans than there are proof presidential dollars. They should just be thrown in the melt bucket.

--Jerry

golfer72

<< <i>

<< <i>Thw word absurd comes to mind. These coins are essentially all identical. Paying money to a grading service to have a label affixed to them is dumb. Even dumber are the people who pay crazy money for these labels. >>



Yeah, the difference between a 64 and a 65 morgan isn't important either. After all, there are many more 80s morgans than there are proof presidential dollars. They should just be thrown in the melt bucket.

--Jerry >>

There are significant differnces between a 64 and 65 Morgan. Enough at least to warrant a difference in grade.

llafoe

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Thw word absurd comes to mind. These coins are essentially all identical. Paying money to a grading service to have a label affixed to them is dumb. Even dumber are the people who pay crazy money for these labels. >>



Yeah, the difference between a 64 and a 65 morgan isn't important either. After all, there are many more 80s morgans than there are proof presidential dollars. They should just be thrown in the melt bucket.

--Jerry >>

There are significant differnces between a 64 and 65 Morgan. Enough at least to warrant a difference in grade. >>



I think you missed his point.

ambro51

Well there are a lot of people who collect these as a registry set. The preservation aspect is important, but not recognized at this short date. Decades from now, these slabbed examples will be the creme of the crop...especially IF the dollar bill is eliminated and all these dollar coins are pulled out of the storage vaults and thrust into circulation. If IF this happens, the collectability of these will increase as people become more aware of them.

19Lyds

<< <i>Well there are a lot of people who collect these as a registry set. The preservation aspect is important, but not recognized at this short date. Decades from now, these slabbed examples will be the creme of the crop...especially IF the dollar bill is eliminated and all these dollar coins are pulled out of the storage vaults and thrust into circulation. If IF this happens, the collectability of these will increase as people become more aware of them. >>

Decades from now, these MS69's will be worth exactly what they are today. Less than it cost to slab them as there are literally hundreds of thousands of them yet to come.

The PR70DCAM's will bring significantly more BUT only if they're stored correctly AND only if no bothersome surface contaminents spoil the PR70DCAM grade. (I recently picked up a PR70DCAM for peanuts! And I mean PEANUTS!)

And thats the problem with moderns. They have no long term basis for sustaining their prices whereas classic coins do since they're simply not making them anymore AND barring improper storage or damage, the coins remain unchanged.

Now, if we're (meaning the human race) are still around in a couple of hundred years, maybe, just maybe, they'll accumulate some collectibility but as it sits for now and the next 50 years, I'm thinking their about as common as pocket change plus the slabbing fee's and those folks that simply want to keep their "collections" up to date.

Of course, I am not dissing moderns, but proper perspective needs to cut through some of the hype.

pf70collector

I paid $200 for a PCGS First Strike DCAM 70 Lincoln last year. Nutso. Probably.

I also noticed that many PCGS DCAM 70 Silver State Quarters can be had for around $50. A few years ago they were going in the $200-$300 range. So I am guessing my Lincoln will probably lose its value but sometimes I can't just say no to a 70. I collect anything with Lincoln including many BEP products.

Monstarcoins

People submit them because PCGS offers the service and people have the right to use it. Some people enjoy collecting these and collect PR70 sets. Sure, they could buy a PR70 but isn't part of the fun constructing the set? Its like putting an album together or restoring something. You get way more enjoyment (bang for your buck) submitting coins. So I wouldn't say that anybody that does something that does not hurt anybody else for fun is dumb. I just cant get over all of the negativity that surounds this hobby. I just cant figure out why some folks partake in this hobby if it brings them so much grief.

max42565

What will really be funny is when people start cossing them,sending them to cac, and dealers start selling PQ coins. Watching this kind of thing makes me LMAO, not get mad. I enjoy the hobby.

llafoe

<< <i>What will really be funny is when people start cossing them,sending them to cac, and dealers start selling PQ coins. Watching this kind of thing makes me LMAO, not get mad. I enjoy the hobby. >>



If you cross your NGC 70 to PCGS, you'll have a PCGS 69. CAC doesn't give their opinions for moderns and in theory, there's no such thing as a PQ 70. PCGS has marketed themselves as the Modern coin graders... a lot of people collect raw and a lot of people collect slabs. If the latter, their is a market for EVERY slabbed modern.

19Lyds

<< <i>I just cant figure out why some folks partake in this hobby if it brings them so much grief. >>

I don't know that I partake of the hobby as much as I participate in the hobby.

vann

<< <i>

<< <i>What will really be funny is when people start cossing them,sending them to cac, and dealers start selling PQ coins. Watching this kind of thing makes me LMAO, not get mad. I enjoy the hobby. >>



If you cross your NGC 70 to PCGS, you'll have a PCGS 69. CAC doesn't give their opinions for moderns and in theory, there's no such thing as a PQ 70. PCGS has marketed themselves as the Modern coin graders... a lot of people collect raw and a lot of people collect slabs. If the latter, their is a market for EVERY slabbed modern. >>


PCGS graded 70's are PQ 70's

max42565

<< <i>

<< <i>What will really be funny is when people start cossing them,sending them to cac, and dealers start selling PQ coins. Watching this kind of thing makes me LMAO, not get mad. I enjoy the hobby. >>



If you cross your NGC 70 to PCGS, you'll have a PCGS 69. CAC doesn't give their opinions for moderns and in theory, there's no such thing as a PQ 70. PCGS has marketed themselves as the Modern coin giraders... a lot of people collect raw and a lot of people collect slabs. If the latter, their is a market for EVERY slabbed modern. >>

I also remember reading an interview with David Hall where he stated that the whole concept of PQ coins within a given grade was basically nonsense, this was when he wanted sight unseen trading to be fully accepted. And no grading system was better than the 11 point mint state grades. Well we see how that held up. If I cant find a PCGS 70 coins somwhere with something on them I will eat my hat. As for ngc coins not crossing,why would they,PCGS has an interest that there grading is more conservative. As for the maket for modern coins I was not commenting on that and I dont know or care, I was simply pointing out the the sillyness of even having them graded in my opinion. In theory there may not be a PQ 70,reality is probably different. What HRH stated I did not quote,I read in one of scott Travers books,about 10-12 years ago and no longer have it. But I remember what he said at the time sticking with me.

vann

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>What will really be funny is when people start cossing them,sending them to cac, and dealers start selling PQ coins. Watching this kind of thing makes me LMAO, not get mad. I enjoy the hobby. >>



If you cross your NGC 70 to PCGS, you'll have a PCGS 69. CAC doesn't give their opinions for moderns and in theory, there's no such thing as a PQ 70. PCGS has marketed themselves as the Modern coin giraders... a lot of people collect raw and a lot of people collect slabs. If the latter, their is a market for EVERY slabbed modern. >>

I also remember reading an interview with David Hall where he stated that the whole concept of PQ coins within a given grade was basically nonsense, this was when he wanted sight unseen trading to be fully accepted. And no grading system was better than the 11 point mint state grades. Well we see how that held up. If I cant find a PCGS 70 coins somwhere with something on them I will eat my hat. As for ngc coins not crossing,why would they,PCGS has an interest that there grading is more conservative. As for the maket for modern coins I was not commenting on that and I dont know or care, I was simply pointing out the the sillyness of even having them graded in my opinion. In theory there may not be a PQ 70,reality is probably different. What HRH stated I did not quote,I read in one of scott Travers books,about 10-12 years ago and no longer have it. But I remember what he said at the time sticking with me. >>


The problem with NGC 70's for most modern coins is that they grade more 70's than 69's compared to PCGS by a wide margin, so to them they are all PQ

PinkFloyd

My personal feeling after spending some--but not a lot--of time with moderns is that anything below a 70 is seen as a loser. This is especially true with general clad business strikes. While there is something to say about that--why collect anything but the best? After all, if the pieces are affordable, you might as well. Things ARE getting a bit ridiculous though (ie, returning anything to the Mint that is not a 70).

In other words, the point of submitting a proof pres. dollar is that someone (if not the submitter) trying to build a "perfect" collection will want one.

I must say---the coins I enjoy the most---ignoring investment potential, etc.--are not slabbed coins.

golfer72

"I just cant figure out why some folks partake in this hobby if it brings them so much grief. " Grief might be a leeeetle bit on the strong side my friend.

DuCrozat

<< <i>Is this practice nonsensical in your opinion???
It is in mine!!!!
Is there such thing as a 70?
Does anyone even care??

>>



It is the pinnacle of a numismatic OCD episode. I question whether or not the alloy and laminate will hold up for posterity.

TwoSides2aCoin

I'm still trying to figure out why NASA took Gold Sacagawea Dollars into space. I guess modern crap will always confound the numismatist.

Swampboy

I like my proof presidential dollars raw.
I'm striving to be a numismatic purist like so many on this board.
Not you Joe.

Monstarcoins

<< <i>

<< <i>I just cant figure out why some folks partake in this hobby if it brings them so much grief. >>

I don't know that I partake of the hobby as much as I participate in the hobby. >>


Okay to each their own. You certainly partake in the hobby when you post threads that try to disparage the toning collectors. I want no part of an argument with you. I rather enjoy this site. So reply if you would like but I have very little seniority here and will remain mum.