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Addition of Woodson to All Time Packer set Debate

jradke4jradke4 Posts: 3,573 ✭✭✭
in PSA Set Registry Forum
I wanted to start a little debate (if there is any) before requesting the addition of Charles Woodson's 1998 SP Authentic Rookie card to the All Time Packers set. This is not for the Packer HOF set. This is for the hard to enter All Time Packers Set.

C Wood Stats:
Cat Total Packers
Sacks 13.5 8
INTs 47 30
INTs TD 10 8(All Time Packer Record)
FF 27 13
FrTD 1 1

1998 Rookie DPOY (with Raiders)
2009 DPOY (with Packers)
1st Team 2000 Team of Decade
ProBowls 4 with Raiders 3 with Packers
1st Team All Pro 2 times one with each Raiders and Packers
2nd Team All Pro 3 times once with Radiers twice with Packers



Most INT returns for TD in Packer History
Most Def returns for TD in Packer History
Packers Fan for Life
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's

Comments

  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,582 ✭✭✭✭
    I don't collect the set, but why the heck not? Woodson is a S-T-U-D. And he has been for years.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • epatmythesepatmythes Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭
    To me, this says it all...

    "This is not for the Packer HOF set. This is for the hard to enter All Time Packers Set."

    The guy is still playing and has only played 5 seasons with the Packers. Has he been good? YES. Has he also been mediocre at times in those 5 seasons? Absolutely. Arguably, he didn't really even deserve the DPOY in 2009, but he did edge D. Revis in the voting thanks to an over-dependence on common statistics. I'd argue that Woodson isn't even a shut down corner... losely considering him one, he's probably not even Top-10 in the league (and hasn't been in years). Unless by shut-down, you mean getting called for pass interference way too often instead of giving up a medium catch or big play.

    It's way to early to put this guy in the set... given his short tenure with the Pack... can't we seriously wait to see if he even gets into the Packers HOF first (which I'm sure he'll do someday, especially if he has a few more productive seasons).

    Think about it this way... Packers were mediocre (if not just bad) in 2006 and 2008. In 2007, Woodson teamed with Al Harris, Bigby & Collins to put together one fearsome secondary. In 2009, Woodson had a great statistical year that landed him the DPOY. In 2010, Woodson was clearly the leader of the defense (and maybe even the team) but nothing extraordinary week in and week out. In that same time, with the Packers, look what Greg Jennings has done. Woodson has an NFL award, but I'd seriously argue that Greg Jennings has meant more to the Packers over the past 5 seasons than Charles Woodson has.

    Are we also going to talk about putting Greg Jennings into the set... this early in his career? No, I wouldn't think so... and rightfully so.

    Don't get me wrong, Charles Woodson is awesome. I think he's a great player and I'm glad he's on my Packers. In the end, he's only been Packer for 5 seasons. Is he a NFL Hall of Famer, I think he's got a really good shot. Is he eventually going to go into the Packers Hall of Fame, I'd say it's quite likely. Given his short tenure, and taken in context of others on the team during that time or for such a period of time, and the idealism I put behind this set... does he deserve to go into the All Time Packers set, at this time, I think absolutely not.

    Just my 2 cents!

    Go Pack Go
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    I don't collect the set either, but IMO, he's done enough during his Packer tenure to warrant inclusion to the All-Time Packers set. Three Pro Bowls, DPOY, Super Bowl Ring. Regardless of his Raider history, he's put in a spectacular 5 years in GB. Then you throw in the entire body of work, and when he goes into the HOF, he will be recognized as a Packer AND a Raider HOFer. Just as Deion Sanders was recognized as a Falcon and a Cowboy..He spent 5 years with each team BTW...

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • jradke4jradke4 Posts: 3,573 ✭✭✭
    i dont disagree with some of your statements about woodson. however if he does get elected to the HOF he will be added to this set. based on the fact that he is in the modern future HOF set is a good suggestion that many here think he will end up there someday. all Packer HOFers are in this set.

    however, he has received some high honors league wide that include his time with the Packers. though one might dispute his DPOY many times they do...just like this years vote between Troy and Clay. that said his election to the first team all decade team includes his 4 years with the Packers. the fact that in his 5 years with the Packers that he has broken the franchise record for Defensive scores to me means a lot. Why...well because its points that win games. When you have players on defense that can score when they get the ball that is the best of all cases. Not to mention 30 INTs in 6 years isnt too bad either. yes he gets flagged at times but that isnt the end of the world.

    in 2006 he had 8 ints, 1 for a TD. in 2008 he had 7 ints with 2 TDs. the team might have played poorly but he didnt. the teams two best years while he has been here have been his worst INT years 2007 4 ints and 2 TD's, 2010 2 ints and 1 TD. though this year he played the slot nearly the whole game not out on the edge. as a result he had close to 20 more tackles than anyother year with the packers.

    i look forward to hearing what others have to say. mainly the non-packer fan collectors of this set.
    Packers Fan for Life
    Collecting:
    Brett Favre Master Set
    Favre Ticket Stubs
    Favre TD Reciever Autos
    Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
    Football HOF Rc's
  • rexvosrexvos Posts: 3,304 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tramon is better.
    Looking for FB HOF Rookies
  • FavreFan1971FavreFan1971 Posts: 3,103 ✭✭✭
    I am going to sit silent for a bit here. Reggie spent 6 years with the Pack but others much less. Is Charles included? Is 5 years enough? Great topic - hell of a player - hell of team history. Is he better then Herb, Jeter or Buchanon or even Mark Lee who is not in the Packer HOF. Tough on here.

    My silence will be short with my history with the team and the set but want to hear some thoughts.
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Tramon is better. >>



    In one year vs. Woodson's 13 year career or even his 5 years with the Packers? WoW..Sounds a bit nutty to me...
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • FavreFan1971FavreFan1971 Posts: 3,103 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Tramon is better. >>



    In one year vs. Woodson's 13 year career or even his 5 years with the Packers? WoW..Sounds a bit nutty to me... >>



    Jason, I thought his comment was rather uneducated so I did not reply but I will jump the wagon. One year - heck of year but your comment is unwarranted and one year does not put you ahead of a HOF'er. But you opinion is yours. Please defend yourself like I did. Def. Payler of the year. Pro Bowls And defensive captain of the Pack
  • epatmythesepatmythes Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>that said his election to the first team all decade team includes his 4 years with the Packers. the fact that in his 5 years with the Packers that he has broken the franchise record for Defensive scores to me means a lot. Why...well because its points that win games. When you have players on defense that can score when they get the ball that is the best of all cases. Not to mention 30 INTs in 6 years isnt too bad either. yes he gets flagged at times but that isnt the end of the world. >>



    In that case, I'm all for adding Charles Woodson to the set now... and RYAN LONGWELL image

    Believe me, I'm down with Woodson, think he's great. Just think it's a little early to be jumping the gun and already calling him one of the all-time Packers. He has some awards, and well deserved they are. But really, is he that much better in his time with Green Bay, then past defensive players... like, let's say, Tim Harris, Brian Noble, Darren Sharper, Al Harris... guys who dominated on the Packers in there time, in similar or even longer timeframes... I don't see them in the set, nor do I see Woodson (yet).

    To be called an All-Time Packer is quite a thing, and not to be taken lightly. Woodson is a probable HOF caliber player, but it's for his body of work. Could we say the same thing about Woodson if it was just his 5 years with the Packers... highly unlikely. Given that, I don't think it's right to consider that when discussing him as an All-Time Packer. To me, it seems like the chic thing to think about right now... but really, it's way too soon.

    Not to make light of the Tramon comment, but let's say 4-5 years down the road Tramon smashes the defensive scoring record. Likely, maybe not... but unthinkable, not that either. Or someone else, it could easily happen, it's hardly an untouchable accomplishment!

    Now I'm up to 4 cents on the topic!
  • thehallmarkthehallmark Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭
    Might want to check out the Football Outsiders rankings of CBs for the past few years (something they do VERY well). Tramon had an excellent year but Woodson was really good as well, relative to the other CBs in the league. He is coming off one of the most productive years ever by a defensive player, much less a CB, so take that into account when you see a dropoff. When he's playing well, he's elite and when he's in a funk, he's still far better than the average CB imho. Some of this excellence is due to the talent around him, quality coaching/scheme, but that's almost always the case. And he's still a player making things happen.

    To me, the only question is about longevity. Ask yourself -- is five good years enough for a monster CB to make it into this set? If so, he's gotta be in there. Maybe Tramon makes in, too, eventually. Doesn't take away from what Woodson has done, though.
  • ToroToro Posts: 1,515
    I'm a huge fan of Charles Woodson, he's a special player and will continue to be for a couple more years. I'm unsure of his current contract but I dont see him raising his hand to get out of GB. I see him with at least two more years at the CB position and a possible move to safety at the twilight of his career.
  • rexvosrexvos Posts: 3,304 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Tramon is better. >>



    In one year vs. Woodson's 13 year career or even his 5 years with the Packers? WoW..Sounds a bit nutty to me... >>



    Jason, I thought his comment was rather uneducated so I did not reply but I will jump the wagon. One year - heck of year but your comment is unwarranted and one year does not put you ahead of a HOF'er. But you opinion is yours. Please defend yourself like I did. Def. Payler of the year. Pro Bowls And defensive captain of the Pack >>



    I went to LA Tech like Tramon. Tramon was better last year. That is all I was saying. No need to attack. I am just a fan of that one player. I always thought Woodson was a bit overrated, but still a fine player, and easily fit for this set.
    Looking for FB HOF Rookies
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