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Chinese Unicorns

folderholderfolderholder Posts: 85
in World & Ancient Coins Forum
Chinese Unicorn coins have been added to the more than 700 Panda and Lunar coins tracked in Panda Pricepedia. Are there any requests for other series of modern Chinese coins to include?

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

Comments

  • LancastercoinLancastercoin Posts: 251
    What's a thread without pictures? Kind of a bad snap but it's just what I had on hand.

    image

    Since you solicited opinions here, I am curious why both Shenyang and Shanghai mints are only listed for the few years where there's a big price difference. Wouldn't you like to get out ahead of even the mainland China sheets and list both? There's not a price difference yet for many years, and it's not always as simple as a large/small date difference, but the products of the two mints are readily distinguishable and (IMHO) deserve two separate listings.

    Of course, all of us folks interested in Chinese coins would love for there to be an English-language sheet for the full range of Chinese commemorative coins, probably 1979-up and precious metal only. You could just crib it from the Chinese monthly sheets for starters and no one here would ever know. And just the thought of someone from China suing over intellectual property makes me chuckle as I type this!
  • folderholderfolderholder Posts: 85


    << <i>Since you solicited opinions here, I am curious why both Shenyang and Shanghai mints are only listed for the few years where there's a big price difference. Wouldn't you like to get out ahead of even the mainland China sheets and list both? There's not a price difference yet for many years, and it's not always as simple as a large/small date difference, but the products of the two mints are readily distinguishable and (IMHO) deserve two separate listings. >>



    Since the Pricepedia is primarily a price guide (although it has articles, too) it only lists those varieties which have significant price differences associated with them. For anyone interested in more information about varieties, there are photos and descriptions in the Gold and Silver Panda Coin Buyer's Guide book. My thought is that the two publications can be used together to provide a comprehensive market survey. Information that is static and rarely changes is in the book while shifting prices are reported in the Pricepedia.



    << <i>Of course, all of us folks interested in Chinese coins would love for there to be an English-language sheet for the full range of Chinese commemorative coins, probably 1979-up and precious metal only. You could just crib it from the Chinese monthly sheets for starters and no one here would ever know. And just the thought of someone from China suing over intellectual property makes me chuckle as I type this! >>



    That would certainly save some time (!) but I compile all the Pricepedia figures myself so that I know where they come from. I do plan to expand the Pricepedia over time to cover as many Chinese commemoratives as possible.

    Best wishes,
    Peter Anthony
    http://www.pandacollector.com
  • LancastercoinLancastercoin Posts: 251
    I hear you on static vs. dynamic prices, but aren't you directly hoping to affect this by publishing your sheet? Or if not hoping, at least recognizing the effect that it's likely to have as it becomes more widely distributed. Listing the two different mints with even a $5 difference will push the market.

    Not to be rude or insulting, but it really did make me laugh out loud (2nd time in one thread!) when I read "so that I know where they come from" when a main source of data for the sheet seems to be ebay's completed auctions and BIN's. Not that ebay's data is worthless, far from it, but so much of it has to be taken with a grain of salt. I know I don't have to tell you how often fake "price realized" points have been created in order to later sell a coin via private treaty to some of the whales in the US. Not that it's a problem that belongs to ebay alone; they inherited it from the floor auction business. Of course, many of the "suckers" from a year ago are laughing all the way to the bank now! The huge gulf between raw and graded coins also masks the true value of many coins that go on ebay.

    Again, no disrespect since you are clearly extremely knowledgeable about both the coins and the market. I often recommend your sheet and book, and would love to meet you at a show someday.

    On a more constructive note, one big omission in your sourcing seems to be the lack of data from coinsky, that being as important or more than ebay in the current market. Or are you drawing on that already and I just missed it?

    Another thing I was wondering is how much of the data is drawn from your buy and sell spreads and your inventory vs. personal wantlist. Could you comment?

    Lastly, don't you consider the Chinese monthly price sheets to be any good? I see them as a decent guide and it'd be totally ethical and above board to reference them where/if appropriate if you want to continue annotating your prices (which I like a lot).

    Cheers!

    Aaron
  • folderholderfolderholder Posts: 85
    Aaron,

    Boy, a lot of questions. So, re: eBay. There are very few Buy-It-Nows in Pricepedia. When you see an eBay price it is almost always an auction listing. I only use a Buy-It-Now price if it's the only recent transaction that exists anywhere in the world. They are better than nothing but not much better.

    For low to moderate priced coins eBay is the most open and active market in the world. Higher end coins are often quoted from major auction houses as that's where those sort of coins frequently end up.

    How crooked are the prices on eBay (or, for that matter at regular auction houses)? My estimate is that the vast majority of auctions are fair. Manipulation happens. If I see an anomalous price for a coin the price will go in the notes section rather than among the auction prices. IMO, a high price is not necessarily a rigged price, which is why some of those "whales" turn out to be good deals. I received a good deal of criticism from one person for reporting a new record on one silver medal. My own assessment was that when a coin/medal has a mintage of 99 and hasn't appeared on the market in years and that market has recently attracted a swarm of buyers from China, than yes, a big price shouldn't be a surprise. Likewise, I personally attended an auction to bid on a box of miscellaneous silver modern Chinese coin recently. It was a small world coin auction (just 2 dozen floor bidders) but I was outbid anyway - the box sold for $31,000 + buyer's premium. All those bids were real, believe me. Sadly for me one competing bidder was from Spink, the other from Champion Auctions.

    I do look at Coinsky but maybe not as much as I should. I have a variety of sources in China and they are where many of the Ask Prices are generated. When supplies of specific coins also exist in the West I try to note price differences between the markets, as I consider those quite useful.

    As far as my inventory goes, I'm not a big or frequent seller. I won't write about coins that I am, or will be in the foreseeable future, selling. The website is named Pandacollector, not PandaDealer, because that's what I primarily am, a collector who writes about these coins. I don't know what to say about my want list except that it focuses on coin varieties I am studying. I doubt my buying, selling, or writing will make much difference to prices. About six weeks ago I posted photos on the Chinese Coin Forum of two unreported date varieties of 2003 500 Yuan gold Pandas. I don't believe the item attracted a single comment and no one seems interested in distinguishing between the Small and Large Date versions (the difference is not great, by the way, but it's possible to determine which Mint a coin comes from by it).

    Aaron, it would be a great pleasure to meet you sometime, along with the other members here. I will most likely be sitting and signing books at the Victory Bullion booth at the Sacramento ANA Show in March if you will be there.

    Thanks for all your valuable input. Very nice Unicorns, too!

    Best wishes,
    Peter Anthony
    http://www.pandacollector.com
  • folderholderfolderholder Posts: 85
    I left out the monthly Jibi.net price sheets. I consider them interesting and well-worth considering for whatever they cover. They don't seem to be always accurate (the prices for Panda sets come to mind), but in this very fluid field nothing is perfect.

    Best wishes,
    Peter Anthony
    http://www.pandacollector.com
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