Seeking Help ... Are These Chinese Coins Fake?

C0inCollect0r · February 1, 2011 1:45PM

Thanks for all the replies folks - Coins have been returned.

Lancastercoin · February 1, 2011 2:44PM

The first two look ok, third one not as much. But I can't truly authenticate coins from pictures. (Or condemn the yr 22 for that matter.)

sinin1 · February 1, 2011 3:06PM

just to complete

the first 2 look bad, the 3rd looks like might be good

JamesMurray · February 1, 2011 3:07PM

<< just to complete

the first 2 look bad, the 3rd looks like might be good >>

I was watching and thats how i pegged them too

C0inCollect0r · February 2, 2011 3:19AM

Thanks for the opinions so far guys ... anyone else have any thoughts?

Lancastercoin · February 2, 2011 4:57AM

LOL, this thread so far is a perfect example of authentication (or grading) by photograph. Only in-hand examination provides a real answer. What did you pay for them? I might be able to offer you a profit.

7Jaguars · February 2, 2011 5:06AM

Hmm, I do not like ANY of these three. Thumbs down to all.

CollectorBob · February 2, 2011 6:01AM

1 and 2: most probably fake
3: slight chance authentic

CIVITAS · February 2, 2011 7:01AM

I guess I'll go out on a limb and say all three look just fine to me. I don't see anything that looks questionable in the photos.

Of course in hand examination trumps any internet photos.

coinkat · February 2, 2011 10:36AM

I think they are okay- I am most concerned about the second

wybrit · February 2, 2011 3:21PM

Before reading the responses, I looked at the pictures. My gut instinct is that pieces 1 and 2 are fakes and that 3 might have a shot.

That said, wait until the pieces arrive. Good luck with them!

1jester · February 2, 2011 3:36PM

The strike and (lack of) wear pattern on the 3rd look least suspect of them all, but I'm concerned about the overall uniformity of the patina (and scratches on the first two) of them all. The patina looks so correct at first sight, which gives me pause upon studying the pieces. I must say that I have no experience with Chinese coins, and these thoughts merely apply to the overall look of the coins, with the knowledge that there are fakes coming out of China. I'm wondering just how convincing they can make fakes, and if these coins might be representative of the upper echelon of counterfeits that could exist. Please let us know what the grading services say.

JamesMurray · February 2, 2011 3:44PM

Down in Florida some years ago i picked up 3 or 4 of similar coins from a small cigar store.If i can find them i'll get pics but although they looked ok for a buck they failed a magnet test.

sinin1 · February 2, 2011 11:06PM

are those the sellers weights?

my experience is the only sellers that list weights, know they are fake and read in a book what they should weigh
and the coins you receive are not the weights listed

but many buyers who buy obvious fakes. do not have a scale to check

I wish you luck, and hopefully get some silver

jt88 · February 3, 2011 12:34PM

<< 1 and 2: most probably fake
3: slight chance authentic >>

WOW, when I saw your picture I thought that's my post but I just don't remember I posted any on this forum.

7Jaguars · February 3, 2011 12:57PM

wow, is that copper showing through on the rims of #3? I still don't like the look of it...

Lancastercoin · February 3, 2011 3:11PM

<< 

<< 1 and 2: most probably fake
3: slight chance authentic >>

WOW, when I saw your picture I thought that's my post but I just don't remember I posted any on this forum. >>

Heh, I also thought it was you saying 1 and 2 were bad - made me take a second look at the pics, then the username! I was thinking maybe you weren't used to seeing them in such low grades like I am...

C0inCollect0r · February 3, 2011 4:37PM

Thanks for all the replies folks ... Definitely quite a mixed bag!

All the weights were taken by myself personally.

Anyhow these are all going back! You will in all likelihood see them listed again by the eBay sellers as "100% Genuine!"

jt88 · February 3, 2011 11:46PM

It is better not buy any raw Chinese coins, most of them are QA if not fake.

Lancastercoin · February 4, 2011 2:11AM

Jack, I strongly disagree. I bought thousands of raw Chinese coins last year and only got burned twice. I got stuck with a fake at FUN, but at $25 for a memento dollar it was worth a shot and I knew I was going pretty fast. Of course I passed on some coins that turned out to be genuine as well, which is kind of a burn. When I make 100pc lots of fatman dollars (for instance) the numbers just don't add up for me or the buyer to pay for certification. Especially when they're no-grade.

jt88 · February 4, 2011 2:41AM

Well, you are lucky. So far I have about 8 QAs and I don't sell QA coin. That's why I send them to grade. If it graded QA I returned them. $30 is OK but how about $2k to $5k QA coin? I sent 60 to ANACS two months ago and still waiting for the result. I just sent another 60 to NGC. I still have hundreds need to send in.

Lancastercoin · February 4, 2011 2:51AM

Luck = preparation + opportunity, I heard.

I definitely see a lot of fakes around the shows though. Like you, I think the services have me on the multi-month tier. I'll be glad to buy your coins raw if you want to offer them to me that way. I would definitely send in more if I could be sure of getting them back before I need bifocals.

nicholasz219 · February 4, 2011 8:12AM

I wish the best to anyone who collects Chinese coins. My paranoia about fakes from China has now grown to encompass most of the Pacific Rim.

jt88 · February 4, 2011 12:42PM

Aron, why you are not in long beach show? No Chinese coin there?

Lancastercoin · February 4, 2011 1:05PM

I'm Sick! And my wife is sick, and she didn't want me to miss new years again, and and and. But I feel like I'm there since I have been spending 4+ hours on the phone every day since Wednesday. I've bought $30k of stuff 2nd hand, mostly modern Chinese. Boy does that much money not go far in today's market...

If you're at the show go see my homeboys at my table, 1079. They have a few of my better China dollars there and a couple other things. Being sick has me posting on here more than usual too.

jt88 · February 4, 2011 1:21PM

I did not go. You are right 30K is not much, 30K can only got me 7 coins in Dec 3, 2010 HK auction. I was biddding on this coin. My online bid was 15K and I thought I might have to chance to get it. I believe Chinese coins are still can go a lot higher. Look at how much those Junk boat sold for now and a year ago. Some of coins price on last December HK auction looks very good now. I bet some of Chinese coin price on ebay will look very good in 6 months later.

32K coin

jt88 · February 4, 2011 1:41PM

MS62 Yuan Shih-kai went for $1230 on ebay now. I sold couples couple months ago for $350.

jt88 · February 4, 2011 3:12PM

<< Jack, I strongly disagree. I bought thousands of raw Chinese coins last year and only got burned twice. I got stuck with a fake at FUN, but at $25 for a memento dollar it was worth a shot and I knew I was going pretty fast. Of course I passed on some coins that turned out to be genuine as well, which is kind of a burn. When I make 100pc lots of fatman dollars (for instance) the numbers just don't add up for me or the buyer to pay for certification. Especially when they're no-grade. >>

I heard NGC can test the minerals in the coins to see if the coin is fake or not. They said coins used to have certain minerals that fake coin doesn't have today. SO be careful with QA coin.

Lancastercoin · February 4, 2011 3:52PM

XRF and Raman spectroscopy are powerful tools, but that's far too broad of a statement for me to agree with. For any older issue, there's no reason to think that the entire run was made from the same batch of alloy - especially for things like da to dollars which were made across one or two continents for at least 35 years. Also, authentication by spectral analysis can only disallow the specimen in question from being genuine, and cannot positively prove authenticity alone. After all, any batch of alloy that's ever been made can be matched today by someone with enough motivation. Besides, they aren't running Raman's on every coin that they come across, only selected (or paid for) examples. I would trust my eye (or yours) over any spectroscope result alone; spectral data is valuable but is only one part of the process. After all, if running a XRF was all it took to authenticate a coin then PCGS and NGC would be out of business already!

Lancastercoin · February 4, 2011 4:00PM

In case anyone is wondering, "da toe" (大頭 or 大头, meaning big head) is how fatman dollars are referred to in Mandarin.

Seeking Help ... Are These Chinese Coins Fake?

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