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Moderns Guys: Interesting trends in Coin Market

Looking through the latest Coin Market in NN, and note some astonishing figures:

1) Non-key bullion plat eagles are now valued higher than their proof counterparts

2) The unc-w plats hardly command any premium now

3) AGE unc premiums seem very strong, e.g. $2,250 for a 1991 half, $1500 for the 1990

4) Most other 2008 issues are holding steady or falling slightly

Published prices are always suspect, but I find the first item especially astonishing. If people were actually collecting bullion platinum, I wouldn't be surprised because I'd guess that surviving, high-quality examples are hard to come by, but this imbalance is true across the dates--unless it's a misprint.

Your analyses?
Winner of the Coveted Devil Award June 8th, 2010

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    wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,688 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "1) Non-key bullion plat eagles are now valued higher than their proof counterparts"

    Assuming this is the case (I do not subscribe anymore), since the non-key bullion plat eagles are selling regularly around spot or so (a somewhat better date set just took place at about $15 over spot on the dealer network) and since the proof counterparts are trading WAY over that amount, I would say NN has it wrong (IMHO) and probably needs to talk with myself or Eric Jordan to clear it up. Again, assuming that is indeed their position.

    Wondercoin
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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    wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,688 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe #2 is fairly correct as to 2006-07, but certainly not as to 2008

    Wondercoin
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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    GritsManGritsMan Posts: 2,599 ✭✭✭
    Yes, the '08-w plats are about 20% higher than the '06s and '07s. Big fall from grace on those '06s!
    Winner of the Coveted Devil Award June 8th, 2010
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    19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,472 ✭✭✭✭
    Soinds like this is aimed more at "Bullion Guys" than Moderns Guys.



    How are Kennedy's doing?



    IKE's?
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
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    JohnMabenJohnMaben Posts: 957 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Looking through the latest Coin Market in NN, and note some astonishing figures:

    1) Non-key bullion plat eagles are now valued higher than their proof counterparts

    2) The unc-w plats hardly command any premium now

    3) AGE unc premiums seem very strong, e.g. $2,250 for a 1991 half, $1500 for the 1990

    4) Most other 2008 issues are holding steady or falling slightly

    Published prices are always suspect, but I find the first item especially astonishing. If people were actually collecting bullion platinum, I wouldn't be surprised because I'd guess that surviving, high-quality examples are hard to come by, but this imbalance is true across the dates--unless it's a misprint.

    Your analyses? >>



    1) Not true, despite whatever may be published. However the gap has closed because proof platinum has always ran hot and cold and right now the number of buyers for raw coins is way down.

    2) Supply and demand.

    3) A couple of retailers support this market consistently and sell them to their retail clients.

    One primary point here. In almost every case, when bullion prices are perceived as low, the premium over bullion for many moderns is greater. Conversely, when the general consensus is that bullion prices are top heavy premiums shrink out of fear and due to the diminished number of people that can actually afford the higher prices.

    John

    John Maben
    Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
    ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
    800-381-2646

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,373 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1) Non-key bullion plat eagles are now valued higher than their proof counterparts

    Based on ebay sales, there do seem to be some cases where this is true, but many where it is not - especially in the 2004 and 2008 issues. But, it's not just an anomaly - it is happening in some cases.

    2) The unc-w plats hardly command any premium now

    The 2007-W Burnished Plats seem to be the weakest, and the 1 ozers seem to have trouble gaining traction. What surprises me most is that the recent Proofs (2009, 2010) are so much higher than many of the scarcer 1 oz. Proofs and even the 1 oz Burnished. I do think that the Burnished Plats are suffering because they are not as attractive as the Proofs, and not even as attractive as the early date Uncs.

    3) AGE unc premiums seem very strong, e.g. $2,250 for a 1991 half, $1500 for the 1990

    The key half oz AGEs have been climbing steadily for several years. I postponed buying a 1991 and I've watched both the 1990 and the 1991 keep climbing. All of the "W" Burnished AGEs seem to be doing the same thing, only on a faster pace than the early keys. It is exciting to watch, but I can't give you a reason for it. Are the "W" Burnished AGEs being heavily promoted somewhere?

    4) Most other 2008 issues are holding steady or falling slightly

    John Maben's reply details the reality of the premiums for these Modern Bullion keys. If you don't own them and still need one, the best time to acquire one is when bullion prices are up and premiums are down. They won't be getting much cheaper.



    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

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    GritsManGritsMan Posts: 2,599 ✭✭✭
    Great feedback, everyone!

    Interesting comment that some of the bullion plats are MORE attractive than the unc-ws. Never thought of that, but definitely agree the proofs are "dah bomb".

    Personally, I hope that the AGE price escalations are not just because of marketing. I think this is a great series to collect and hope it has some legs. I think that's a good possibility, too, since the 1990 and 1991s have had a premium for a long time now.

    Sorry, no big news on the IKEs and Kennedys image

    I also agree that some of these prices are probably just plain wrong. APMEX is an interesting site to check out on pricing. I note, for instance, that their premiums on 2000 proof $50 plats are higher than the 2002s, even though the 2002 has a significantly lower mintage. So SOMEONE is paying attention, at least a little bit, to the series.


    Winner of the Coveted Devil Award June 8th, 2010
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    erwindocerwindoc Posts: 4,927 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Soinds like this is aimed more at "Bullion Guys" than Moderns Guys.



    How are Kennedy's doing?



    IKE's? >>



    I agree. Should be titled Modern bullion. I tend to think of modern coins as post-64.

    Any comments on the Roosevelt or Washington markets?
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    GritsManGritsMan Posts: 2,599 ✭✭✭
    Okay, I did look up those other categories and didn't notice anything astonishing. I do notice that the 2006 D Kennedys are listed at $20 in MS65 versus about $7-10 for most other recent dates.

    Also noted that the baseline prices for the Territorial and ATB quarters are higher than for a lot of the recent state quarters prices. Could reflect the lower mintages of these newer issues.
    Winner of the Coveted Devil Award June 8th, 2010
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    cladkingcladking Posts: 28,335 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Watching these markets evolve is almost as fun as collecting the coins. image

    ttt
    Tempus fugit.
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    57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭
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    7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,255 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, interesting that the '09 and '10 one oz plat proofs are higher than their much scarcer earlier brethren and possibly suggests some "hangover" courtesy of the flippers. I can't say that I can prove it, but have the feel that there are not that many collectors of these one ozers - this sentiment has been put forth on these boards before.
    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
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    << <i>

    << <i>Looking through the latest Coin Market in NN, and note some astonishing figures:

    1) Non-key bullion plat eagles are now valued higher than their proof counterparts

    2) The unc-w plats hardly command any premium now

    3) AGE unc premiums seem very strong, e.g. $2,250 for a 1991 half, $1500 for the 1990

    4) Most other 2008 issues are holding steady or falling slightly

    Published prices are always suspect, but I find the first item especially astonishing. If people were actually collecting bullion platinum, I wouldn't be surprised because I'd guess that surviving, high-quality examples are hard to come by, but this imbalance is true across the dates--unless it's a misprint.

    Your analyses? >>



    1) Not true, despite whatever may be published. However the gap has closed because proof platinum has always ran hot and cold and right now the number of buyers for raw coins is way down.

    2) Supply and demand.

    3) A couple of retailers support this market consistently and sell them to their retail clients.

    One primary point here. In almost every case, when bullion prices are perceived as low, the premium over bullion for many moderns is greater. Conversely, when the general consensus is that bullion prices are top heavy premiums shrink out of fear and due to the diminished number of people that can actually afford the higher prices.

    John >>





    Good points, High material prices do compress numismatic premiums as we all know. Platinum is pricey and the buyers do run hot and cold.

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