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Bad Check inquiry
notwilight
Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭
Is D. Maltz of Brooklyn NY on anyone's bad check list? Note this is NOT a report of a bad check but an inquiry. I received an offer from this buyer and the tone is very suspicious. However, it may be a perfectly legit offer by an overly eager buyer. I'm just feeling cautious about this one. --Jerry
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<< <i>Once payment clears- coin will ship... >>
If this one follows the pattern of the initial inquiry, I will be urged to ship asap. How do you verify that the check has cleared? The scam I worry about is the forged check on a good account that clears until the legitimate account owner sees it on his statement and calls the bank.
--Jerry
<< <i>Once payment clears... >>
Checks can bounce a long time after you *thought* they cleared.
edited to add... Go ask your bank for a definite length of time that you can count on to be sure a check has cleared, with absolutely no chance of bouncing. Good luck on getting an answer.
<< <i>
<< <i>Once payment clears- coin will ship... >>
If this one follows the pattern of the initial inquiry, I will be urged to ship asap. How do you verify that the check has cleared? The scam I worry about is the forged check on a good account that clears until the legitimate account owner sees it on his statement and calls the bank.
--Jerry >>
If he has checks than he has a bank account.......If he has a bank account than he should have the ability to obtain cahiers checks. Cashiers checks dont bounce. If it were me and it was a large sum of money that what way I would go both as a buyer or seller.
<< <i>
<< <i>Once payment clears... >>
Checks can bounce a long time after you *thought* they cleared. >>
Yes, easily more than a week afterwards.
Jerry, does Mr.Maltz have any good numismatic references that he can provide? If not and he is legitimate, he should be understanding and willing to wait, until you are satisfied that it is safe to ship. You can provide references.
Good suggestion.
My biggest defense is my 6th sense which so far has never failed me--knock on wood. (There is the one time when I passed on a $200 sale about 3 years ago to a guy in rural MO that I just couldn't get comfortable with. I felt bad telling him that I couldn't complete the deal on his terms since I wasn't absolutely sure he was a scammer.)
Here is a hypothetical for you guys. The check shows up and it is on the Bank of America for $5000. I walk into a branch and cash it for 50 $100 bills. They take a copy of my driver's license and phone number. I ship the coin. 5 weeks later I get a call from them that it was a forged check and when the account holder got the statement and filed a complaint and they want the $5000 back. Where do I stand on that one?
--Jerry
<< <i>Mark,
Good suggestion.
My biggest defense is my 6th sense which so far has never failed me--knock on wood. (There is the one time when I passed on a $200 sale about 3 years ago to a guy in rural MO that I just couldn't get comfortable with. I felt bad telling him that I couldn't complete the deal on his terms since I wasn't absolutely sure he was a scammer.)
Here is a hypothetical for you guys. The check shows up and it is on the Bank of America for $5000. I walk into a branch and cash it for 50 $100 bills. They take a copy of my driver's license and phone number. I ship the coin. 5 weeks later I get a call from them that it was a forged check and when the account holder got the statement and filed a complaint and they want the $5000 back. Where do I stand on that one?
--Jerry >>
Owing Bank of America $5000
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>Mark,
Good suggestion.
My biggest defense is my 6th sense which so far has never failed me--knock on wood. (There is the one time when I passed on a $200 sale about 3 years ago to a guy in rural MO that I just couldn't get comfortable with. I felt bad telling him that I couldn't complete the deal on his terms since I wasn't absolutely sure he was a scammer.)
Here is a hypothetical for you guys. The check shows up and it is on the Bank of America for $5000. I walk into a branch and cash it for 50 $100 bills. They take a copy of my driver's license and phone number. I ship the coin. 5 weeks later I get a call from them that it was a forged check and when the account holder got the statement and filed a complaint and they want the $5000 back. Where do I stand on that one?
--Jerry >>
If the bank cashes the check they will have done so after some scrutiny. You are just as much defrauded as the person with the account. did nothing wrong and you went straight to the bank it was issued at to make sure it was good. They cashed it. They can report you to the police, but again you did nothing wrong.
And for those who think a Cashier's check is better, I guess they think those are never counterfeited?
The fact is if he rubs you the wrong way and you are not desperate to sell the coin then just walk away from the transaction. It will sell another day. I say you trust your instinct more than anything else.
<< <i> Here is a hypothetical for you guys. The check shows up and it is on the Bank of America for $5000. I walk into a branch and cash it for 50 $100 bills. They take a copy of my driver's license and phone number. I ship the coin. 5 weeks later I get a call from them that it was a forged check and when the account holder got the statement and filed a complaint and they want the $5000 back. Where do I stand on that one? >>
This is exactly why a cashiers check is better. Even though there are fake cashiers checks the bank will check it before they hand you the cash.
Don't deposit the cashiers check in your account. Cash it at the bank it's from or if they don't want to give that much cash out get the bank to give you another cashiers check for it
Follow your instincts when in doubt.
<< <i>
<< <i>Mark,
Good suggestion.
My biggest defense is my 6th sense which so far has never failed me--knock on wood. (There is the one time when I passed on a $200 sale about 3 years ago to a guy in rural MO that I just couldn't get comfortable with. I felt bad telling him that I couldn't complete the deal on his terms since I wasn't absolutely sure he was a scammer.)
Here is a hypothetical for you guys. The check shows up and it is on the Bank of America for $5000. I walk into a branch and cash it for 50 $100 bills. They take a copy of my driver's license and phone number. I ship the coin. 5 weeks later I get a call from them that it was a forged check and when the account holder got the statement and filed a complaint and they want the $5000 back. Where do I stand on that one?
Owing Bank of America $5000
--Jerry >>
>>
Jerry, fortunately, I do not have first hand experience with that situation. But I am under the impression that he is correct. It doesn't mater that you did nothing wrong. Look at it as the bank giving you the money, but PROVISIONALLY.
In my experience, Cashier Checks are no better than regular checks. They CAN bounce for various reasons. ,my bank holds them just like any other check until final clearance. I use the following procedures when I'm not feeling comfortable. I'm sure there are probably better ways to go about it, but it's the best I've found so far.
The safeguards I take is to have my bank call their bank to verify funds on a Cashier Check. If they can, then it gets deposited and then I call my bank in a few days and have them verify it has actually cleared. Then I'm good to go.
On personal checks, it is no longer possible to verify funds by the public. The whole scheme of how things used to be done has been changed mainly because of the Patriot Act. If the buyer is in a hurry for shipment, I give them an option of wiring the money, or sending a check. Then they must call their bank and tell the mgr he is giving me permission to have it verified that the check has cleared, that or he does a 3 way call to the bank to verify it has cleared.
Perhaps another good option would be insisting on a paypal gift payment. They wouldn't be able to do a chargeback.
I have heard (maybe an urban myth) of checks being called "bad" after 60 days because of slow processing despite the bank giving the okay that the check has cleared. I have never had such a problem, so I do not know the veracity of the claim.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>OK Derry. So you think it is my responsibility to verify the validity of the check, not the Bank's. Is this an opinion on what is right or based on legal knowledge? thanks, jerry >>
Jerry, I answered your question and only said the bank will claim you owe them $5K. I didn't say it was right for you to owe them $5K. Having experienced this myself, I do not take checks. My current policy of only accepting cash, paypal (with seller protection), wire transfer or postal money order has never let me down. The only problem with postal money orders is that they are only available up to $1K forcing a buyer to pay a bunch in fees for large amounts. Bank of America now allows on-line wire transfers for its on-line account holders at a much lower fee.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>In my experience, Cashier Checks are no better than regular checks. They CAN bounce for various reasons. ,my bank holds them just like any other check until final clearance. I use the following procedures when I'm not feeling comfortable. I'm sure there are probably better ways to go about it, but it's the best I've found so far.
The safeguards I take is to have my bank call their bank to verify funds on a Cashier Check. If they can, then it gets deposited and then I call my bank in a few days and have them verify it has actually cleared. Then I'm good to go.
On personal checks, it is no longer possible to verify funds by the public. The whole scheme of how things used to be done has been changed mainly because of the Patriot Act. If the buyer is in a hurry for shipment, I give them an option of wiring the money, or sending a check. Then they must call their bank and tell the mgr he is giving me permission to have it verified that the check has cleared, that or he does a 3 way call to the bank to verify it has cleared.
Perhaps another good option would be insisting on a paypal gift payment. They wouldn't be able to do a chargeback. >>
Interesting, considering the money is removed from my account before the cashiers check is handed over
I did walk into Chase with a 5 digit check on their bank last week. They verified it was good. I didn't cash it since over $10k in cash triggers reporting requirements. Once verified I went to my bank and deposited it. This buyer I was very trustworthy and I wasn't worried at all but since Chase was right next door it was easy to do.
So far I haven't heard back so maybe my statement that the check would have to clear is all it took to tell the "very interested buyer" who just doesn't have an ebay account to move on to the next mark.
As for the hypothetical, I hope a lawyer pipes in who knows the law here. I've heard of the same thing happening with cashiers checks. The bank cashes them and the issuing bank pays them electronically and they aren't caught as counterfeit until the paper copy gets back to the issuing bank weeks later. However, cashiers checks are very easy to verify by calling the issuing bank and giving them the check number, account, and customer name. that, I believe, is pretty air tight.
--Jerry
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
I ASK FOR BOOKKEEPING DEPARTMENT and tell them that I have received
a check written for $xxx on account #xxxxxxxx and signed by XXX XXSXXXX
and ask them if it was presented would it clear?
Generally you can get a good, no, very good feeling with the response you get.
Oh, yes sir, that would have no problems clearing!
Or, Perhaps you may want to wait a bit before presenting, sir.
Or, There are not sufficient funds at this time for that to clear.
It's worth a call to the bank, but just don't talk to anyone. Bookkeeping is the key
word here.
If you do happen to have a bank in the neighborhood that matches his bank, like
Wells Fargo, they should be able to verify funds instantly at the counter. There
should be no problem with them disbursing their clients' funds to you instantly.
I do not believe that they can call you to make good when it's the clients
bank.
bob
Or Paypal....not that it's any safer than a forged check
How about finding a local dealer that he might know that would agree (for a small fee) to broker the deal.
If he balks at those options, then your 6th sense should prevail and you don't close the deal.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
<< <i>The big banks like Chase, BofA, Wells, Citi, can now clear an on-us check in about 10 minutes. Their local branch or your bank calling their bank should be able to at least give you a read without violating anything. >>
They aren't "clearing" the checks they are processing them by crediting/debiting accounts. They also process counterfeited checks at the same time and don't catch them because they are not looking for them. A counterfeit check is not normally caught until after it has been processed and the account holder finds it during his monthly balancing act or if he's lucky when he checks his account on-line more often. Checks are never fully "cleared", they just fade away if there is no problem with them. An account holder may not catch the bad check for weeks and possibly months. If the amount was small enough and he doesn't do a good job of reviewing his account, he may never catch it.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
Large check. Bank of America. Cashed. Much later (weeks?) had the money reversed as it wasn't good?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
but it must be enough to have you concerned
checks can be bad (closed, non existent, someone elses, NSF, stop payment) and could take a few weeks until your bank that cleared the funds on day 2, debits the funds back out of your account
which may cause your written checks to start NSFing
cashiers checks can be fake or cancelled
If I was concerned, I would not change what I was already familiar and happy with
(PAYPAL, USPS money order, cash) to bend over backwards for a potential sale
if they really want it, they can find a way to meet your terms
Wondercoin
<< <i>Why should it matter to a seller whether a buyer is planning to pay any taxes, esp. if you are not required to collect them? >>
I am the seller. I don't want to send that message to those who read it. --Jerry
<< <i>Jerry: Just require a bank wire if you are concerned. Plain and simple (and offer to pay his wire fee to be a nice guy). There is really no other alternative when you are (this) concerned. Wondercoin >>
Yep. That's probably where I will go if I ever hear from them again. I expect an excuse though since they said it is a "corporate" check. I'm dealing with a big businessman here. Like I said, the message is very suspicious.
Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>Mark,
Good suggestion.
My biggest defense is my 6th sense which so far has never failed me--knock on wood. (There is the one time when I passed on a $200 sale about 3 years ago to a guy in rural MO that I just couldn't get comfortable with. I felt bad telling him that I couldn't complete the deal on his terms since I wasn't absolutely sure he was a scammer.)
Here is a hypothetical for you guys. The check shows up and it is on the Bank of America for $5000. I walk into a branch and cash it for 50 $100 bills. They take a copy of my driver's license and phone number. I ship the coin. 5 weeks later I get a call from them that it was a forged check and when the account holder got the statement and filed a complaint and they want the $5000 back. Where do I stand on that one?
--Jerry >>
Owing Bank of America $5000 >>
the bank has 24 hours to verify the signanture or it was a forged document. the bank should eat the $5000, not you. think about it what are you supposed to do in reality, keep that 5k "forever", just in case the check was bad???
<< <i>Jerry: Just require a bank wire if you are concerned. Plain and simple (and offer to pay his wire fee to be a nice guy). There is really no other alternative when you are (this) concerned.
Wondercoin >>
Simple and straight foward.
I had a check bounce almost 30 days after I deposited it and had been told by the teller that after 7 days I was good to go on the funds. I lost in the end after a lot of phone calls, etc. The bank got their money back and I ended up holding the bag -- and this was BoA, not some small town local bank. Long story short, I was told that the check was a promise to pay between me and the buyer, not between me and the bank. It was up to me to recover the money from the buyer, which did not ever happen.
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