I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector. Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Tell ya what. Define those ambiguous terms, tell me precisely what you mean by them, and I'll make every good-faith effort to try to answer the question. Failing that, please try to understand, when I can't define what I'm looking for, it's kinda hard for me to tell whether I've found it.
<< <i>Looks like a red/brown cent subjected to MS70 detergent. NGC slabbed thousands of these blue cents with lofty grade bumps for "eye appeal" >>
"Thousands" as in considerably more than 2000? I don't think so. And a good number of the ones I have seen don't appear to have received grade bumps, much less, "lofty" ones.
It looks like the naturally occurring oils have been stripped off the coin, leaving a thin-film interference pattern. Try putting a very thin coat of Blue Ribbon on it and if it goes away (turns RB or brown) then it wasn't real toning to begin with. If it mutes the color, it is likely original. The Blue Ribbon is removable with acetone, so, it probably won't harm the coin by trying.
To me, I'd say it is the "Thin-film" and not natural.
It's obvious this coin isn't going to get any help from that tarnish in terms of a market grade to many of you folks. What technical grade would you give this coin? I'm curious.
PS: Don't worry, I'll eventually get around to telling you if you got it right.
"Right" or not doesn't matter to me on this. Looks like NGC ggraded it, but it isn't one I would buy for anywhere around "going price". Only if it was quite cheap...quite quite cheap.
Well, that was a piece, at least, of what I was looking for, Bochiman. That's your feelings on it, and, I respect that. I have feelings, too.
Got a question just for you, now. Were this a silver coin (a silver dollar, say), and, that tarnish were adjudged the same way by you, would your position be the same on that coin? In other words, would the price of that coin have to be way under the technical grade for you to even consider buying it? There's a method to my insanity, here, believe it or not, if you think that's an insane question. I'd really like to know.
<< <i>Well, that was a piece, at least, of what I was looking for, Bochiman. That's your feelings on it, and, I respect that. I have feelings, too.
Got a question just for you, now. Were this a silver coin (a silver dollar, say), and, that tarnish were adjudged the same way by you, would your position be the same on that coin? In other words, would the price of that coin have to be way under the technical grade for you to even consider buying it? There's a method to my insanity, here, believe it or not, if you think that's an insane question. I'd really like to know. >>
Fair question. To answer it, if it were not deemed, by me as the potential purchaser, to be NT, then, yes, it would have to be underpriced, by more than a bit for the technical grade, for me to want to buy it. Even if the tarnish were judged the same way by me, and even moreso let's say that it was deemed pretty or attractive, if I didn't think it was natural, I wouldn't pay any premium at all, not even at grade for it.
You have no insanity with the questions, but that is how I think when I buy for our collection.
<< <i>Fair question. To answer it, if it were not deemed, by me as the potential purchaser, to be NT, then, yes, it would have to be underpriced, by more than a bit for the technical grade, for me to want to buy it. >>
The reason I ask is, why don't you just buy it, then dip that tarnish out? You end up with a market acceptable silver dollar, at that technical grade. In fact, isn't that what was done to so many of these, by dealers, back when blast white was the craze? And, those are all market acceptable, now, right? They're graded and slabbed?
Another way to look at this is from the seller's standpoint. You don't want to let that silver coin go at under the technical grade just for the tarnish.
<< <i>Fair question. To answer it, if it were not deemed, by me as the potential purchaser, to be NT, then, yes, it would have to be underpriced, by more than a bit for the technical grade, for me to want to buy it. >>
The reason I ask is, why don't you just buy it, then dip that tarnish out? You end up with a market acceptable silver dollar, at that technical grade. In fact, isn't that what was done to so many of these, by dealers, back when blast white was the craze? And, those are all market acceptable, now, right? They're graded and slabbed?
Another way to look at this is from the seller's standpoint. You don't want to let that silver coin go at under the technical grade just for the tarnish. >>
Not always that easy, right? Depending on what was done to do the AT, and how it reacted with the metals, you may not be able to just have a pristine, untoned, example at the end. Copper is harder, to my understanding, to do this with as well.
<< <i>Not always that easy, right? Depending on what was done to do the AT, and how it reacted with the metals, you may not be able to just have a pristine, untoned, example at the end. >>
Well, I don't know about that. Do you know those threads that show up every now and then on those eBay auctions and everybody has a big laugh at that "AT" tarnish? In fact, there are even those who feel so impassioned, they report those sellers to eBay? Who do you suppose is buying up those silver coins? Those buyers may not know anything about "AT" and "NT," but, I'll bet you they know about Tarn-X. Then, a quick commercial dip, just to seal the deception, and, eureka, a blast white Morgan Dollar that's market acceptable to every major TPG as well as to a consensus of the coin collecting community! I'm just saying, I'd be very surprised if that's not happening...
PS: BTW, I don't dip coins in Tarn-X, my wife dips our silver set in it. I'd call her a doctor, but that would hardly stop her, she's a M.D.
cheezhed
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Comments
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>IHC - AT or NT >>
Tell ya what. Define those ambiguous terms, tell me precisely what you mean by them, and I'll make every good-faith effort to try to answer the question. Failing that, please try to understand, when I can't define what I'm looking for, it's kinda hard for me to tell whether I've found it.
<< <i>Looks like a red/brown cent subjected to MS70 detergent. NGC slabbed thousands of these blue cents with lofty grade bumps for "eye appeal" >>
"Thousands" as in considerably more than 2000? I don't think so. And a good number of the ones I have seen don't appear to have received grade bumps, much less, "lofty" ones.
To me, I'd say it is the "Thin-film" and not natural.
Sounds like, the "Witch test" doesn't it!
<< <i>NGC slabbed thousands of these blue cents with lofty grade bumps for "eye appeal" >>
I've even had some in PCGS slabs.
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
PS: Don't worry, I'll eventually get around to telling you if you got it right.
Only if it was quite cheap...quite quite cheap.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Got a question just for you, now. Were this a silver coin (a silver dollar, say), and, that tarnish were adjudged the same way by you, would your position be the same on that coin? In other words, would the price of that coin have to be way under the technical grade for you to even consider buying it? There's a method to my insanity, here, believe it or not, if you think that's an insane question. I'd really like to know.
<< <i>Well, that was a piece, at least, of what I was looking for, Bochiman. That's your feelings on it, and, I respect that. I have feelings, too.
Got a question just for you, now. Were this a silver coin (a silver dollar, say), and, that tarnish were adjudged the same way by you, would your position be the same on that coin? In other words, would the price of that coin have to be way under the technical grade for you to even consider buying it? There's a method to my insanity, here, believe it or not, if you think that's an insane question. I'd really like to know. >>
Fair question. To answer it, if it were not deemed, by me as the potential purchaser, to be NT, then, yes, it would have to be underpriced, by more than a bit for the technical grade, for me to want to buy it. Even if the tarnish were judged the same way by me, and even moreso let's say that it was deemed pretty or attractive, if I didn't think it was natural, I wouldn't pay any premium at all, not even at grade for it.
You have no insanity with the questions, but that is how I think when I buy for our collection.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>I believe my AU55 1916-D Lincoln has been MS70'd!!!
...........along with my 1869 2 cent piece (sorry for the OOF reverse)!
<< <i>Fair question. To answer it, if it were not deemed, by me as the potential purchaser, to be NT, then, yes, it would have to be underpriced, by more than a bit for the technical grade, for me to want to buy it. >>
The reason I ask is, why don't you just buy it, then dip that tarnish out? You end up with a market acceptable silver dollar, at that technical grade. In fact, isn't that what was done to so many of these, by dealers, back when blast white was the craze? And, those are all market acceptable, now, right? They're graded and slabbed?
Another way to look at this is from the seller's standpoint. You don't want to let that silver coin go at under the technical grade just for the tarnish.
<< <i>I believe my AU55 1916-D Lincoln has been MS70'd!!! >>
So, either PCGS considers that tarnish market acceptable, or they made a mistake. Which is it?
<< <i>
<< <i>Fair question. To answer it, if it were not deemed, by me as the potential purchaser, to be NT, then, yes, it would have to be underpriced, by more than a bit for the technical grade, for me to want to buy it. >>
The reason I ask is, why don't you just buy it, then dip that tarnish out? You end up with a market acceptable silver dollar, at that technical grade. In fact, isn't that what was done to so many of these, by dealers, back when blast white was the craze? And, those are all market acceptable, now, right? They're graded and slabbed?
Another way to look at this is from the seller's standpoint. You don't want to let that silver coin go at under the technical grade just for the tarnish. >>
Not always that easy, right? Depending on what was done to do the AT, and how it reacted with the metals, you may not be able to just have a pristine, untoned, example at the end.
Copper is harder, to my understanding, to do this with as well.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Not always that easy, right? Depending on what was done to do the AT, and how it reacted with the metals, you may not be able to just have a pristine, untoned, example at the end. >>
Well, I don't know about that. Do you know those threads that show up every now and then on those eBay auctions and everybody has a big laugh at that "AT" tarnish? In fact, there are even those who feel so impassioned, they report those sellers to eBay? Who do you suppose is buying up those silver coins? Those buyers may not know anything about "AT" and "NT," but, I'll bet you they know about Tarn-X. Then, a quick commercial dip, just to seal the deception, and, eureka, a blast white Morgan Dollar that's market acceptable to every major TPG as well as to a consensus of the coin collecting community! I'm just saying, I'd be very surprised if that's not happening...
PS: BTW, I don't dip coins in Tarn-X, my wife dips our silver set in it. I'd call her a doctor, but that would hardly stop her, she's a M.D.