2011 Additions- Future Football HOF Rookies- Modern Set POLL

JasP24

With the AP All-Pro's being released today, we have all necessary pieces in order to vote for new additions and/or subtractions to the Modern Future HOF set. A few notes before we start:

-Anyone can nominate any player, just post here and I will add to the list.
-Any player that gets 50%+ of the vote to be added or subtracted will be submitted to PSA.
-Additions/Subtractions to this set are only done once per year, so be sure to vote if you collect this set.
-You do not have to collect this set to vote, anyone can vote.
-Arguments and debates can be posted. If a voter changes their mind on someone, please alert me that your vote is a CHANGE vote and not a NEW vote.
-Voting will run until next Monday morning.

Nominees to ADD:

Active Players:
Richard Seymour, DT- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 4 Super Bowl appearances, First Team All-Decade
Dwight Freeney, DE- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 2 Super Bowl appearances, First Team All-Decade
Troy Polamalu, S- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowl appearances
Julius Peppers, DE- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, Defensive Rookie of the Year
Jason Witten, TE- 7 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro
Chad Ochocinco, WR- 6 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro
Olin Kreutz, OC- 6 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance
Lance Briggs, MLB- 6 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance
Donovan McNabb- 6 Pro Bowls, 1 Super Bowl appearance
Matt Birk- 6 Pro Bowls
Drew Brees- 5 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, Offensive Player of the Year, Super Bowl MVP
Reggie Wayne- 5 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 2 Super Bowl appearances
Hines Ward- 4 Pro Bowls, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Super Bowl MVP
Ben Rothlisberger- 1 Pro Bowl, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Starting QB in 3 Super Bowls

Retired Players:
Ty Law- 5 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowl appearances
Edgerrin James- 4 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, First Team All-Decade
Kevin Greene- 5 time HOF Semifinalist, 5 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, First Team All-Decade
Steve Tasker- 4 time HOF Semifinalist, 7 Pro Bowls, 4 Super Bowl appearances
Joe Jacoby- 2 time HOF Semifinalist, 4 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro, 4 Super Bowl appearances
Donnie Shell- 1 time Modern HOF Finalist, 1 time HOF Semifinalist, 5 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 4 Super Bowl appearances


Nominees to SUBTRACT:
Steve At-Water
Leroy Butler


Place your votes, I will keep a running tally.
Jason

JasP24

My votes:

ADD:
Richard Seymour-1 (First Team All-Decade, Patriots Best of Decade team member)
Dwight Freeney-1 (First Team All-Decade)
Troy Polamalu-1 (After this season, his importance to a 3-time Super Bowl team can not be understated)
Julius Peppers-1 (6/3 Profile, considered dominant DE)
Drew Brees-1 (Super Bowl MVP QB with great stats)
Hines Ward-1 (Super Bowl MVP with great stats)
Ben Rothlisberger-1 (Starting his third Super Bowl...Every other QB with 3 is in)
Ty Law-1 (One of the top Patriot players during their decade run)
Edgerrin James-1 (First Team All-Decade RB, great stats)
Kevin Greene-1 (FIVE TIME Semifinalist..He will get in at some point)

SUBTRACT:
Steve At-water-1 (Been HOF eligible for 7 years, has not ONCE made the top 25 semifinalist)
LeRoy Butler-1 (Been HOF eligible for 5 years, has not ONCE made the top 25 semifinalists)

rexvos

Add

Richard Seymour
Dwight Freeney
Troy Polamalu
Drew Brees
Julius Peppers
Hines Ward
Kevin Green
Edgerrin James
Ben Roethlisberger
Jason Witten

Subtract
None

JasP24

Davemri

ADD:

Active Players:
Troy Polamalu, S- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowl appearances
Julius Peppers, DE- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, Defensive Rookie of the Year
Jason Witten, TE- 7 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro
Drew Brees- 5 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, Offensive Player of the Year, Super Bowl MVP
Reggie Wayne- 5 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 2 Super Bowl appearances
Hines Ward- 4 Pro Bowls, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Super Bowl MVP
Ben Rothlisberger- 1 Pro Bowl, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Starting QB in 3 Super Bowls

EDITED TO ADD FREENEY!



SUBTRACT:
Steve At-Water
Leroy Butler

shagrotn77

Add:

Wayne, Greene, Witten

Subtract:

At-water, Butler

JasP24

vjsteele4

Add
Troy Polamalu
Drew Brees
Julius Peppers
Hines Ward
Kevin Green
Edgerrin James
Ben Roethlisberger
Ty Law
Subtract: none

JasP24

SooperDave

ADD
Richard Seymour
Dwight Freeney
Troy Polamalu
Julius Peppers
Jason Witten
Drew Brees
Hines Ward
Ty Law
Edgerrin James
Kevin Greene

Subtract:
none

JasP24

FavreFan1971

Add
Richard Seymour,
Dwight Freeney,
Troy Polamalu,
Julius Peppers,
Drew Brees
Reggie Wayne
Ty Law
Edgerrin James
Kevin Greene

Nominees to SUBTRACT:
None
- My opinion is you gotta be darn good to get on this list to begin with and if you slide 25 years you should be automatically in the Senior list set. Look at the Fred Dean's of the world. No one should ever be removed from the Modern or the Senior set. Well, unless you get elected. I think it is an embarrassment if someone gets elected that is NOT in either the Modern or Senior set.

NickM

ADD:
Richard Seymour, DT- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 4 Super Bowl appearances, First Team All-Decade
Dwight Freeney, DE- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 2 Super Bowl appearances, First Team All-Decade
Troy Polamalu, S- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowl appearances
Donovan McNabb- 6 Pro Bowls, 1 Super Bowl appearance
Drew Brees- 5 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, Offensive Player of the Year, Super Bowl MVP
Hines Ward- 4 Pro Bowls, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Super Bowl MVP
Ben Rothlisberger- 1 Pro Bowl, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Starting QB in 3 Super Bowls
Edgerrin James- 4 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, First Team All-Decade
Kevin Greene- 5 time HOF Semifinalist, 5 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, First Team All-Decade
Steve Tasker- 4 time HOF Semifinalist, 7 Pro Bowls, 4 Super Bowl appearances
Joe Jacoby- 2 time HOF Semifinalist, 4 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro, 4 Super Bowl appearances
Donnie Shell- 1 time Modern HOF Finalist, 1 time HOF Semifinalist, 5 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 4 Super Bowl appearances

SUBTRACT:
none



Nick

JasP24

JasP24

<< <i>
- My opinion is you gotta be darn good to get on this list to begin with and if you slide 25 years you should be automatically in the Senior list set. Look at the Fred Dean's of the world. No one should ever be removed from the Modern or the Senior set. Well, unless you get elected. I think it is an embarrassment if someone gets elected that is NOT in either the Modern or Senior set. >>



Anyone on the modern set, who does not make the HOF (Ray Guy and Lester Hayes being prime examples) will slide over to the Senior list. I think what you have to remember is the difference between the two sets.

The Senior set is much broader in scope. The mere fact that none of the players on the set could gain election in their 25 years as a modern candidate defines that. None are considered likely or definite HOFers. These are your long shot guys. This is where a Steve At-Water and/or Leroy Butler will ultimately belong.

The Modern set on the other hand is meant for LIKELY TO DEFINITE HOFers. For me, it's hard to understand how At-water and Butler can be considered likely to definite when they can't even make the top 25...Not just once or twice either...At-water has had 7 chances...Butler has had 5. Taking your vote as an example. How do you rationalize At-water and Butler as likely or definite, yet you do not place a vote for Steve Tasker, Joe Jacoby and Donnie Shell. Shell has made the TOP 15, Tasker has made the top 25 FOUR times. 3 of the 4 times Tasker was selected ABOVE and OVER At-water and Butler. All 3 were on the ballot, and Tasker got more votes for election from the true HOF voters than At-water or Butler did...THREE TIMES!

So that is my reasoning behind my votes to subtract. It's not about removing a card that you purchased. (I own both)...It's about making the list as realistic and as accurate as possible. We are not HOF voters and there is no way to ever know for sure who the majority will vote for when they get in their private meeting the day before the Super Bowl. But if I were an outsider looking at this set I would be baffled to see At-water and Butler, yet not see Greene, Tasker, Jacoby and Shell. The semifinal and finalist are really the only FACTUAL evidence we have to go by..Everything else is based purely on speculation. Yet, we are refusing to look at or take into account these facts. It's unfortunate because i voted both of those players to the set. My OPINION is that both are HOF worthy. But if the voters do not believe it, my opinion is inaccurate. They own the facts.

Jason

Davemri

Jason, I must have deleted Freeney by mistake on the first vote. Can you +1 Freeney. I will go back and edit my inital vote.

JasP24

<< <i>Jason, I must have deleted Freeney by mistake on the first vote. Can you +1 Freeney. I will go back and edit my inital vote. >>



Yep, got it.

FavreFan1971

<< <i>

<< <i>
- My opinion is you gotta be darn good to get on this list to begin with and if you slide 25 years you should be automatically in the Senior list set. Look at the Fred Dean's of the world. No one should ever be removed from the Modern or the Senior set. Well, unless you get elected. I think it is an embarrassment if someone gets elected that is NOT in either the Modern or Senior set. >>



The Modern set on the other hand is meant for LIKELY TO DEFINITE HOFers. For me, it's hard to understand how At-water and Butler can be considered likely to definite when they can't even make the top 25...Not just once or twice either...At-water has had 7 chances...Butler has had 5. Taking your vote as an example. How do you rationalize At-water and Butler as likely or definite, yet you do not place a vote for Steve Tasker, Joe Jacoby and Donnie Shell. Shell has made the TOP 15, Tasker has made the top 25 FOUR times. 3 of the 4 times Tasker was selected ABOVE and OVER At-water and Butler. All 3 were on the ballot, and Tasker got more votes for election from the true HOF voters than At-water or Butler did...THREE TIMES!

Jason >>



That is why I voted the way I did. I don't think Tasker will get in as a modern candidate. He is the Ray Guy of the 1990's in my opinion. Donnie Shell is getting Jerry Kramer syndrome, too many players from the same team i.e. see LC Greenwood. And Joe Jacoby was an amazing player also but I don't think any of these three get in as a modern player. Nor do I think Butler and At-water will get in either as a modern player (I own both cards too). But I am of the opinion that you do not remove anyone from the modern set unless they get elected or are past 25 years and head to the Senior set. So, that is my reason for leaving this two players in the set, I don't think they are more worthy than anyone else outside the set, they are already in it.

We need to make this an exclusive set and put a load of thought into each vote, which I think everyone does. If I am not mistaken when the set was created At-water and Butler were getting votes.

Now, to a great point Jason brought up. Do we have an AUTO-ADD for votes by the HOF voters? For instance if you make the Semi's 5 times (Kevin Green) you are in the set. Semi's is the top 25 correct? And then if you make the top 15 twice I say you are automatically in the set. That is a no brainer to me. I like the idea that Jason mentioned this because I was unaware that Greene made to semi's 5 times.

Publius

My vote. Thanks for putting this together.

Active Players:
Richard Seymour, DT- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 4 Super Bowl appearances, First Team All-Decade
Dwight Freeney, DE- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 2 Super Bowl appearances, First Team All-Decade
Troy Polamalu, S- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowl appearances
Julius Peppers, DE- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, Defensive Rookie of the Year
Jason Witten, TE- 7 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro
Chad Ochocinco, WR- 6 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro
Drew Brees- 5 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, Offensive Player of the Year, Super Bowl MVP
Reggie Wayne- 5 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 2 Super Bowl appearances
Hines Ward- 4 Pro Bowls, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Super Bowl MVP
Ben Rothlisberger- 1 Pro Bowl, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Starting QB in 3 Super Bowls

Retired Players:
Ty Law- 5 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowl appearances
Edgerrin James- 4 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, First Team All-Decade
Kevin Greene- 5 time HOF Semifinalist, 5 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, First Team All-Decade
Steve Tasker- 4 time HOF Semifinalist, 7 Pro Bowls, 4 Super Bowl appearances
Joe Jacoby- 2 time HOF Semifinalist, 4 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro, 4 Super Bowl appearances
Donnie Shell- 1 time Modern HOF Finalist, 1 time HOF Semifinalist, 5 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 4 Super Bowl appearances

JasP24

Total Voters: 9

ADD:

Troy Polamalu-8
Drew Brees-8
Kevin Greene-8
Dwight Freeney-7
Julius Peppers-7
Hines Ward-7
Edgerrin James-7
Ben Roethlisberger-6
Richard Seymour-6
Jason Witten-6
Ty Law-5
Reggie Wayne-4
Steve Tasker-2
Joe Jacoby-2
Donnie Shell-2
Donovan McNabb-1
Chad Ochocinco-1

SUBTRACT:

Steve At-water-3
LeRoy Butler-3

JasP24

<< <i>

That is why I voted the way I did. I don't think Tasker will get in as a modern candidate. He is the Ray Guy of the 1990's in my opinion. Donnie Shell is getting Jerry Kramer syndrome, too many players from the same team i.e. see LC Greenwood. And Joe Jacoby was an amazing player also but I don't think any of these three get in as a modern player. Nor do I think Butler and At-water will get in either as a modern player (I own both cards too). But I am of the opinion that you do not remove anyone from the modern set unless they get elected or are past 25 years and head to the Senior set. So, that is my reason for leaving this two players in the set, I don't think they are more worthy than anyone else outside the set, they are already in it.

We need to make this an exclusive set and put a load of thought into each vote, which I think everyone does. If I am not mistaken when the set was created At-water and Butler were getting votes.

Now, to a great point Jason brought up. Do we have an AUTO-ADD for votes by the HOF voters? For instance if you make the Semi's 5 times (Kevin Green) you are in the set. Semi's is the top 25 correct? And then if you make the top 15 twice I say you are automatically in the set. That is a no brainer to me. I like the idea that Jason mentioned this because I was unaware that Greene made to semi's 5 times. >>



I fully agree. Voting should be taken seriously. We (as a group) typically get things right, i mean the set we have I think is excellent. But things change. And i don;t think (barring a change) that anyone should be voted off. But for me, THE HOF VOTERS who actually make the selections are telling us that At-water and Butler are no longer probably or likely HOFers. So to me, leaving them on the set hurt the integrity of it. Especially when there are other players, who have gotten more FACTUAL PROVEN support from the voters are missing from the set. Makes it somewhat hypocritical in my mind, so that's the way I voted the way I did. Once again, looking like the majority share your opinion vs. mine, which is fine.

As far as AUTO-ADD, it simply isn;t going to happen according to PSA. Not with this type of subjective set. Auto-Add means adding a player that voters would vote down. We do our diligence here with the Future Modern HOFers. I know in my case, the reason Greene isn't on the set is BECAUSE I THOUGHT HE WAS ALREADY THERE!!! It wasn't until I deleted/retired all of my key card sets that I realized Greene never got added. Luckily, he didn't make the finals just yet and we caught it and look to be correcting it. 5 straight top 25's doesn't guarantee anything, but he is certainly pretty high on the food chain. Maybe a title ring as a coach helps him down the road ala Dick LeBeau?

JasP24

jradke4

Add

Active:
Seymour
Freeney
Polamalu
Peppers

others need a little more time in my book.

Retired:
Greene

i think in 5 years if we add James he would be in the same boat right now as At-water and Butler, with some people wanting him off. the big difference being we know how tough it is to be voted in as Safety vs a running back. he had a good career but nowhere near the other running backs that are waiting to go in right now. i think he benifited from being one of the few that play nearly entirely in the 2000's on getting votes over Bettis, Martin and Faulk as the back next to LT on the all decade team. those three played more in the 90's can there was no way anyone else could beat out Emmitt and Barry.

subtract:
none

JasP24

<< <i>Add

Active:
Seymour
Freeney
Polamalu
Peppers

others need a little more time in my book.

Retired:
Greene

i think in 5 years if we add James he would be in the same boat right now as At-water and Butler, with some people wanting him off. the big difference being we know how tough it is to be voted in as Safety vs a running back. he had a good career but nowhere near the other running backs that are waiting to go in right now. i think he benifited from being one of the few that play nearly entirely in the 2000's on getting votes over Bettis, Martin and Faulk as the back next to LT on the all decade team. those three played more in the 90's can there was no way anyone else could beat out Emmitt and Barry.

subtract:
none >>



While I don't think James will be first or even 2nd ballot. The fact that he is a 1st Team all Decade Player at RB solidifies his candidacy. Every other 1st Team All-Decade RB is in the HOF. For Safety, that is not the case. There are Safeties from every all-decade team that are not in...The same guys who vote for the HOF are the ones who voted for the All-Decade team last year...

Jason

JasP24

saucywombat

ADD

Active Players:
Richard Seymour, DT- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 4 Super Bowl appearances, First Team All-Decade
Dwight Freeney, DE- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 2 Super Bowl appearances, First Team All-Decade
Troy Polamalu, S- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowl appearances
Julius Peppers, DE- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, Defensive Rookie of the Year
Donovan McNabb- 6 Pro Bowls, 1 Super Bowl appearance
Drew Brees- 5 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, Offensive Player of the Year, Super Bowl MVP
Reggie Wayne- 5 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 2 Super Bowl appearances
Hines Ward- 4 Pro Bowls, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Super Bowl MVP
Ben Rothlisberger- 1 Pro Bowl, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Starting QB in 3 Super Bowls

Retired Players:
Kevin Greene- 5 time HOF Semifinalist, 5 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, First Team All-Decade

JasP24

Davemri

OK....Need a little more love for Reggie Wayne. Anybody want to add him to your vote? This guy has got a good 4-6 years left with Manning as his QB. He already has over 10K receiving yards and 69TD

Receiving Rushing
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G YScm RRTD Fmb AV
2001 23 IND WR 13 9 27 345 12.8 0 43 2.1 26.5 345 0 0 3
2002 24 IND WR 16 7 49 716 14.6 4 49 3.1 44.8 716 4 2 7
2003 25 IND WR 16 16 68 838 12.3 7 57 4.3 52.4 838 7 0 10
2004 26 IND WR 16 16 77 1210 15.7 12 71 4.8 75.6 1 -4 0 -4 -4.0 -0.3 0.1 1206 12 0 15
2005 27 IND WR 16 16 83 1055 12.7 5 66 5.2 65.9 1055 5 1 14
2006* 28 IND WR 16 16 86 1310 15.2 9 51 5.4 81.9 1310 9 1 17
2007* 29 IND WR 16 16 104 1510 14.5 10 64 6.5 94.4 1 4 0 4 4.0 0.3 0.1 1514 10 3 19
2008* 30 IND WR 16 16 82 1145 14.0 6 65 5.1 71.6 1145 6 0 13
2009* 31 IND WR 16 16 100 1264 12.6 10 65 6.3 79.0 1264 10 0 14
2010* 32 IND 16 16 111 1355 12.2 6 50 6.9 84.7 1355 6 1
Career 157 144 787 10748 13.7 69 71 5.0 68.5 2 0 0 4 0.0 0.0 0.0 10748 69 8 112

shagrotn77

Reggie Wayne was my #1 vote.

JasP24

<< <i>OK....Need a little more love for Reggie Wayne. Anybody want to add him to your vote? This guy has got a good 4-6 years left with Manning as his QB. He already has over 10K receiving yards and 69TD >>



He won't need 4-6 more years, but probably needs 2-3 before I will vote for him. As a WR, stats are not held in very high regard. I mean look at the active leaders:

Yardage:
1. Terrell Owens (37) 15,934 1996-2010
2. Randy Moss (33) 14,858 1998-2010
3. Tony Gonzalez (34) 12,463 1997-2010
4. Derrick Mason (36) 11,891 1997-2010
5. Hines Ward (34) 11,702 1998-2010
6. Joey Galloway (39) 10,950 1995-2010
7. Chad Ochocinco (32) 10,783 2001-2010
8. Reggie Wayne (32) 10,748 2001-2010

Receptions:
1. Terrell Owens (37) 1,078 1996-2010
2. Tony Gonzalez (34) 1,069 1997-2010
3. Randy Moss (33) 954 1998-2010
Hines Ward (34) 954 1998-2010
5. Derrick Mason (36) 924 1997-2010
6. Reggie Wayne (32) 787 2001-2010

TDs:
1. Terrell Owens (37) 153 1996-2010
Randy Moss (33) 153 1998-2010
3. Tony Gonzalez (34) 88 1997-2010
4. Hines Ward (34) 83 1998-2010
5. Joey Galloway (39) 77 1995-2010
6. Antonio Gates (30) 69 2003-2010
Reggie Wayne (32) 69 2001-2010

Certainly guys on these lists ABOVE Wayne who are not HOFers. Then you look at his Award Profile in comparison to say Chad Ochocinco/Johnson:

Ochocinco- 6 Pro Bowls, 2 First Team All-Pro
Wayne- 5 Pro Bowl, 1 First Team All-Pro

Both came into the league together in 2001, it would seem Ocho has been the more awarded player according to fans, coaches, players and media.

Wayne, just like Ocho, needs a couple more years of either ProBowl/All-Pro selection, or ALOT better stats...They need to be in the Moss/Owens range. Hines Ward for example only has a 4 Pro Bowl, 0 First Team All-Pro profile..BUT he has multiple Super Bowl rings and is a Super Bowl MVP. Which is one of the most heavily weighted components used by the HOF voters.

Lets see another year from Wayne like he had in 2010 and I may consider a vote. But at this point, his total package just isn't quite there. If he were to blow out his knee in Training Camp and end his career he would NOT be elected to the HOF based on what he has right now.

Davemri

Fair argument, but keep in mind........ For the first 6 years of Waynes career he was the #2 receiver playing second fiddle behind Harrison. He still put up respectable #'s regardless. Harrison, no doubt, helped keep Wayne's #'s lower and may have cost him a pro bowl or 3.

Dave

jradke4

<< <i>Fair argument, but keep in mind........ For the first 6 years of Waynes career he was the #2 receiver playing second fiddle behind Harrison. He still put up respectable #'s regardless. Harrison, no doubt, helped keep Wayne's #'s lower and may have cost him a pro bowl or 3.

Dave >>



lets also keep in mind that he has played his whole career with Peyton Manning throwing him the ball. the same cant be said for Owens, Moss, Gonzo, Ward and Mason. would his numbers be the same if he spent the time with the QB's that the guys ahead of him have played with.

JasP24

<< <i>Fair argument, but keep in mind........ For the first 6 years of Waynes career he was the #2 receiver playing second fiddle behind Harrison. He still put up respectable #'s regardless. Harrison, no doubt, helped keep Wayne's #'s lower and may have cost him a pro bowl or 3.

Dave >>



My thinking exactly. Is a true HOF caliber WR a #2 on his own team for half of his career? There are a few out there who have gotten in, but all had extraordinary numbers or a multitude of Super Bowl heroics...Wayne has neither...YET

IMO, he's one of the guys on the list who needs a few more years of top level play..Just like Polamalu and Freeney last year..They didnt get voted in cause we wanted to see another HOF caliber year. Both gave it again. But are getting the votes for addition.

Jason

shagrotn77

<< <i>My thinking exactly. Is a true HOF caliber WR a #2 on his own team for half of his career? >>



Did Terrell Owens come in and take over as the #1 when he played with Jerry Rice? No. Nobody was going to come in and immediately supplant Marvin Harrison as the #1. I'm sure this is all a moot point because if Wayne doesn't make the set this year, he will next year. He's played in 2 Super Bowls, which sets him apart from a lot of other receivers with big numbers. Just my opinion of course...

saucywombat

I voted for Wayne, but he might be at the end of his career. I'd be surprised if he played more than 2 more seasons. The production fell alot this year when he should have been a clear #1. Pierre Garcon, Jacob Tamme and Austin Collie picked up alot of the slack.

alifaxwa2

Richard Seymour, DT- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 4 Super Bowl appearances, First Team All-Decade
Dwight Freeney, DE- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 2 Super Bowl appearances, First Team All-Decade
Troy Polamalu, S- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowl appearances
Drew Brees- 5 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, Offensive Player of the Year, Super Bowl MVP
Reggie Wayne- 5 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 2 Super Bowl appearances
Hines Ward- 4 Pro Bowls, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Super Bowl MVP
Ben Rothlisberger- 1 Pro Bowl, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Starting QB in 3 Super Bowls

Retired Players:
Ty Law- 5 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowl appearances
Edgerrin James- 4 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, First Team All-Decade
Joe Jacoby- 2 time HOF Semifinalist, 4 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro, 4 Super Bowl appearances

Remove
At-water
Butler

JasP24

JasP24

Personally I'd like to see another year from Witten and Wayne. Both currently on the bubble and could go either way. I'm not sure what the rush is. The question on if they belong on this set should be:

Are they definite or likely HOFers if they retired today. I'm not sure I understand how anyone who follows the HOF process could say yes with good conscious on either of these guys based on the positions they play.

3 days left in the voting. 4 definite adds, 5 likely, 3 on the bubble. The rest are longshots, as well as the removals.

Jason

dfr52

ADD:

Richard Seymour, DT- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 4 Super Bowl appearances, First Team All-Decade
Dwight Freeney, DE- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 2 Super Bowl appearances, First Team All-Decade
Troy Polamalu, S- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowl appearances
Julius Peppers, DE- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, Defensive Rookie of the Year
Jason Witten, TE- 7 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro
Drew Brees- 5 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, Offensive Player of the Year, Super Bowl MVP
Hines Ward- 4 Pro Bowls, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Super Bowl MVP
Ben Rothlisberger- 1 Pro Bowl, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Starting QB in 3 Super Bowls

Retired Players:

Ty Law- 5 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowl appearances
Edgerrin James- 4 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, First Team All-Decade
Kevin Greene- 5 time HOF Semifinalist, 5 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, First Team All-Decade
Steve Tasker- 4 time HOF Semifinalist, 7 Pro Bowls, 4 Super Bowl appearances

Subtract:

None

JasP24

jay0791

Add
seymour
freeney
troy p
peppers

subtract none
even though I kinda agree somewhat about removing them.

dfr52

Change of Vote:

I would like to withdraw my vote for Ty Law

Thanks

JasP24

<< <i>Change of Vote:

I would like to withdraw my vote for Ty Law

Thanks >>



Got it, change made.

JasP24

gosteelers

Here's mine:

Active Players:
Richard Seymour, DT- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 4 Super Bowl appearances, First Team All-Decade
Dwight Freeney, DE- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 2 Super Bowl appearances, First Team All-Decade
Troy Polamalu, S- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowl appearances
Jason Witten, TE- 7 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro
Drew Brees- 5 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, Offensive Player of the Year, Super Bowl MVP
Reggie Wayne- 5 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 2 Super Bowl appearances
Hines Ward- 4 Pro Bowls, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Super Bowl MVP
Ben Rothlisberger- 1 Pro Bowl, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Starting QB in 3 Super Bowls

Retired Players:
Ty Law- 5 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowl appearances
Edgerrin James- 4 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, First Team All-Decade
Steve Tasker- 4 time HOF Semifinalist, 7 Pro Bowls, 4 Super Bowl appearances

JasP24

BiggelowBiggers1

Nominees to ADD:

Active Players:
Richard Seymour, DT- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 4 Super Bowl appearances, First Team All-Decade
Dwight Freeney, DE- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 2 Super Bowl appearances, First Team All-Decade
Troy Polamalu, S- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowl appearances
Julius Peppers, DE- 6 Pro Bowls, 3 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, Defensive Rookie of the Year
Jason Witten, TE- 7 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro
Drew Brees- 5 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, Offensive Player of the Year, Super Bowl MVP
Reggie Wayne- 5 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 2 Super Bowl appearances
Hines Ward- 4 Pro Bowls, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Super Bowl MVP
Ben Rothlisberger- 1 Pro Bowl, 3 Super Bowl appearances, Starting QB in 3 Super Bowls

Retired Players:
Ty Law- 5 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowl appearances
Edgerrin James- 4 Pro Bowls, 1 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, First Team All-Decade
Kevin Greene- 5 time HOF Semifinalist, 5 Pro Bowls, 2 time First Team All-Pro, 1 Super Bowl appearance, First Team All-Decade


Nominees to SUBTRACT:

NONE

JasP24

Total Voters: 16

ADD:

Troy Polamalu-15
Dwight Freeney-14
Drew Brees-13
Richard Seymour-13
Kevin Greene-12
Julius Peppers-12
Hines Ward-12
Edgerrin James-11
Ben Roethlisberger-11
Jason Witten-9
Ty Law-8
Reggie Wayne-8
Steve Tasker-4
Joe Jacoby-3
Donnie Shell-2
Donovan McNabb-2
Chad Ochocinco-1

SUBTRACT:

Steve At-water-4
LeRoy Butler-4

gregm13

Jason,

Thanks for posting - I'll respond later today.

Rgs,

Greg M.

JasP24

Alright fellas...Greg M will be our final vote this year...

The following are locked in and will be requested:

Troy Polamalu-2003 SP Authentic#120
Dwight Freeney-2002 Topps Chrome#171
Drew Brees-2001 Topps Chrome Rookie Refractor#229
Richard Seymour-2001 Topps Chrome Rookie Refractor#282
Kevin Greene-1988 Topps#300
Julius Peppers-2002 Topps Chrome#214
Hines Ward-1998 Leaf R&S#202
Edgerrin James-1999 SP Authentic#94
Ben Roethlisberger-2004 Topps Chrome#166
Jason Witten-2003 SP Authentic#199

Please look these over and let me know if anyone has any objections or has something different for the players cards above.

Greg will be the deciding vote on Ty Law and Reggie Wayne...Interesting that BOTH of these players have 5 Pro Bowls, Ty Law has more 1st Team All-Pro's and has 2 additional Super Bowl rings...Law was also selected to 2000 All Decade Team(2nd Team) and Reggie Wayne was not..Yet 3 voters selected Wayne without selecting Ty Law...Not even sure how to explain that one, other than personal preference vs. logical selection.

Jason

Davemri

I think 12 would be way too many to add in one year. maybe we should limit it to 7 like the HOF does.