What Is the "Kansas Bank Hoard?"
Coinosaurus
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The Heritage Long Beach sale has an unprecendented hoard of 1875-S 20c pieces, all upper grade uncs, a whole roll of them.
I've never seen anything like it. It's like these coins were all put in a time warp and came out the other side.
The catalog refers to a "Kansas Bank Hoard" but never comes out and says quite what it is.
Unfortunately for the consignor, these coins never circulated and there are already a few hundred uncs out there.
On the other hand, they appear to be 100% stone cold original coins.
The strange thing about all this is that they are selling them all at once. Is that the right strategy??
I've never seen anything like it. It's like these coins were all put in a time warp and came out the other side.
The catalog refers to a "Kansas Bank Hoard" but never comes out and says quite what it is.
Unfortunately for the consignor, these coins never circulated and there are already a few hundred uncs out there.
On the other hand, they appear to be 100% stone cold original coins.
The strange thing about all this is that they are selling them all at once. Is that the right strategy??
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"A whole roll" is like saying, "I have a bunch of coins to sell". I'd like to see some pics.
Rumor had it the there were literally tons (I heard a Brinks truck full) of bank-wrapped silver coins from various dates in the late 30's, 40's and 50's. Rumor also had it that one TPG grader was found wandering the halls shaking and in tears and another was put on an IV drip of Red Bull to finish the job on time and then given 48 hours off to detox.
Every year after you catch that fish it's another inch longer and another 2 pounds heavier, so believe the scope of this "Hoard" at your own peril.
But it's an illustrious pedigree
<< <i>And let's not forget the Wells Fargo Bank Hoard.....it alledgedly contained lots of everything! Original bags of Barber halves and early walkers, a bag of trade dollars, bags of scarce date gold coins, etc. I think even most of the 'revised inventory list' has been debunked. But, ya just never know what's still out there! >>
The Wells Fargo hoard was found to be just a made up story to sell gold from Russia.
<< <i>
<< <i>And let's not forget the Wells Fargo Bank Hoard.....it alledgedly contained lots of everything! Original bags of Barber halves and early walkers, a bag of trade dollars, bags of scarce date gold coins, etc. I think even most of the 'revised inventory list' has been debunked. But, ya just never know what's still out there! >>
The Wells Fargo hoard was found to be just a made up story to sell gold from Russia. >>
The urban legend I heard was that Ron Gillio bought them directly out of safe-deposit boxes in a Wells Fargo bank in Las Vegas. Whatever the story, checking the pop reports shows that 1908 NM $20's show 120,000 of this date certified. While not broken down by attribution, 10's of thousands of these might well be Wells Fargo coins including (confirmed) over 800 MS68's and 10+ MS69's. Another situation where I sat by the phone and no telemarketer called.
I was thinking hoard but I did not see any reference to a kansas
hoard?
<< <i>The Heritage Long Beach sale has an unprecendented hoard of 1875-S 20c pieces, all upper grade uncs, a whole roll of them.
I've never seen anything like it. It's like these coins were all put in a time warp and came out the other side.
The catalog refers to a "Kansas Bank Hoard" but never comes out and says quite what it is.
Unfortunately for the consignor, these coins never circulated and there are already a few hundred uncs out there.
On the other hand, they appear to be 100% stone cold original coins.
The strange thing about all this is that they are selling them all at once. Is that the right strategy?? >>
Did the roll have the bank name stamped on it? If so, and the roll is opened, there goes the pedigree line. And, judicious or not, there are collectors out there who get off on pedigree lines. If, OTOH, the roll could manage to get to a TPG, intact, the coins could be examined, and the gradable ones, at least, could be slabbed, with the pedigree line on the slab.
1. A banker from Kansas hoarded the coins sometime in the past. A very literal, but somewhat unlikely situation.
2. The hoard was found in an old bank vault in Kansas, just recently discovered, I doubt this but it is what the name tends to bring to my mind. It "speaks" of a neat find by someone that sparks an interest in many a collector of coins.
3. Is a hoard collected by someone in Kansas or likes the name Kansas. Perhaps.
4. Has absolutely nothing to do with anyone or anything in Kansas, little or nothing to do with a banker or bank, and is just a made-up name to provide a marketing interest. I have to think this just might be the case.
Most of think of Kansas as a State that is flat, populated by farmers, has an Old West flair, is politically conservative, and the backdrop for the Wizard of Oz Movies and books. Not that any or all of these are necessarily bad. I grew up in Kansas City, MO but have also lived in Kansas City, KS. Nearby Independence MO is where the Sante Fe, California, and Oregon Trails all started.
Maybe they aren't-----------------BigE
While fun to speculate, I seriously doubt that this was an "original" roll as the coins are far to evenly toned on obv and rev to suggest that they were kept in a roll. Also, I have not come across any evidence that twenty-cent pieces were ever distributed in rolls or that any rolls were made to house this ephemeral issue. [Roger - Have you seen any such evidence?] The fact that two have environmental damage on one side each is intriguing, but may just be due to storage unrelated to an original roll. If a roll were used, say a quarter paper roll, I would have expected only a few of the coins to be so deeply toned rather than most of the lot.
All that said (or written), it's a neat finding and of considerable importance (then again, I am biased!). Plus, it's always fun to see your name in an auction catalog!
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>Whatever the story, checking the pop reports shows that 1908 NM $20's show 120,000 of this date certified. While not broken down by attribution, 10's of thousands of these might well be Wells Fargo coins including (confirmed) over 800 MS68's and 10+ MS69's. Another situation where I sat by the phone and no telemarketer called.
I saw one of those PCGS MS69 Saints at the Goldberg Pre-Long Beach lot viewing this week and I would have graded it MS65, maybe MS66 on a very good day!!! But yeah, it's in an MS69 holder...
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>
<< <i>Whatever the story, checking the pop reports shows that 1908 NM $20's show 120,000 of this date certified. While not broken down by attribution, 10's of thousands of these might well be Wells Fargo coins including (confirmed) over 800 MS68's and 10+ MS69's. Another situation where I sat by the phone and no telemarketer called.
I saw one of those PCGS MS69 Saints at the Goldberg Pre-Long Beach lot viewing this week and I would have graded it MS65, maybe MS66 on a very good day!!! But yeah, it's in an MS69 holder... >>
I've never liked the quality either, though I haven't seen but a few above MS67. I try to bear in mind the limitations of the No Motto dies regarding strikes. Not a type collector's dream, very likely an investor's nightmare.
<< <i>
<< <i>Whatever the story, checking the pop reports shows that 1908 NM $20's show 120,000 of this date certified. While not broken down by attribution, 10's of thousands of these might well be Wells Fargo coins including (confirmed) over 800 MS68's and 10+ MS69's. Another situation where I sat by the phone and no telemarketer called.
I saw one of those PCGS MS69 Saints at the Goldberg Pre-Long Beach lot viewing this week and I would have graded it MS65, maybe MS66 on a very good day!!! But yeah, it's in an MS69 holder... >>
Yeah for some reason hoard coins tend to get overgraded. Dont know why. Wells Fargo, Omaha etc. So much for the graders not knowing where the coins are coming from!
every good promotion has a catchy name and it wouldn't surprise me to see more of these hoards "debunked" in the years to come. they are always clouded in mystery.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Whatever the story, checking the pop reports shows that 1908 NM $20's show 120,000 of this date certified. While not broken down by attribution, 10's of thousands of these might well be Wells Fargo coins including (confirmed) over 800 MS68's and 10+ MS69's. Another situation where I sat by the phone and no telemarketer called.
I saw one of those PCGS MS69 Saints at the Goldberg Pre-Long Beach lot viewing this week and I would have graded it MS65, maybe MS66 on a very good day!!! But yeah, it's in an MS69 holder... >>
Yeah for some reason hoard coins tend to get overgraded. Dont know why. Wells Fargo, Omaha etc. So much for the graders not knowing where the coins are coming from!
I bet the graders can tell when they have a bulk submission sitting in front of them, which is what a lot of those hoards were when they were sent in to the TPGs.
<< <i>Yeah, good question..... How many in a "roll"? Did "rolls" actually exist then?
"A whole roll" is like saying, "I have a bunch of coins to sell". I'd like to see some pics. >>
I too would like to hear more on the "roll" question that JustPlainAl asked. When were paper rolls invented and first used? Do any from the 19th century still exist, with or without coins in them?
Surely somebody must've thought of that. I think of what Civil War (and earlier) soldiers used as "cartridges" before the advent of brass shell casings- they wrapped a powder charge and their musketball or Minie bullet up in ... a rolled up piece of paper. Which kind of resembled a modern coin roll wrapper, except that the ends were twisted up rather than flattened out.
Well....maybe not....
<< <i>
<< <i>Yeah, good question..... How many in a "roll"? Did "rolls" actually exist then?
"A whole roll" is like saying, "I have a bunch of coins to sell". I'd like to see some pics. >>
I too would like to hear more on the "roll" question that JustPlainAl asked. When were paper rolls invented and first used? Do any from the 19th century still exist, with or without coins in them?
Surely somebody must've thought of that. I think of what Civil War (and earlier) soldiers used as "cartridges" before the advent of brass shell casings- they wrapped a powder charge and their musketball or Minie bullet up in ... a rolled up piece of paper. Which kind of resembled a modern coin roll wrapper, except that the ends were twisted up rather than flattened out. >>
Did they shoot 20c coins when they ran out of shot?