Info wanted on Stone Mountain counterstamped medals

OnTheHunt

This is a real shot in the dark, but maybe somebody knows somebody who knows somebody. These medals are different than the usual Children's medals. They were counterstamped with the same State initial punches used for the half dollars, although the year 1927 counterstamps are not. I'm trying to discover why and for whom these were done. I've only seen two, the MISS I own and the VA that was sold in a Heritage auction quite some time ago. Thanks for any help.

Steve

Aegis3

Are you sure the state initials on the medal and the coins are from the same punches? The "MISS"'s look different; look closely at the shape of the S's (the medal is less symmetrical about an inversion point that the coin) and the I's. The VA also looks different from the coin, but I'm less certain of that. Looking at those in Stack's March 2007 sale, the coins seem to lack the serifs on the A that the medal has, but that may be due to differences in the depth of punching.

CaptHenway

I agree.....the bottom of the S looks to stick out further to the left.
TD

BigE

I had never heard of these Children's Medals, were there other styles, or only the Stone Mountain Memorial type?-----------BigE

OnTheHunt

<< <i>. Looking at those in Stack's March 2007 sale, the coins seem to lack the serifs on the A that the medal has, but that may be due to differences in the depth of punching. >>



I checked the auction archives and couldn't find that one. Have a link?



<< <i>I agree.....the bottom of the S looks to stick out further to the left.
TD >>



Well, here's where I wish I knew enough about photo software to do an overlay! I might have to rethink my suppositions. I had figured it was a weak punch on the half dollar. Here's a TEXAS over FLA that has both an A and S. Think they're the same punches as the medals?


Steve

OnTheHunt

<< <i>I had never heard of these Children's Medals, were there other styles, or only the Stone Mountain Memorial type?-----------BigE >>



Here's some info on the medals struck in the mid 1920's to help fund the carving. My icon is the Borglum version.

Steve

The initial effort to raise funds for the Memorial through the selling of a numismatic item was the issuance of a bronze Children's Founders Roll medal. The medal was designed by Gutzon Borglum and sold from 1924 to 1925. The central device on the obverse features Borglum's proposed depiction of the figures of Lee, Jackson and Davis. His name appears in script on the lower obverse field. The reverse carries the legend "Children's Founders Roll - Commemorating the Heroism of the People of the Confederacy". These were sold for $1.00 to children under 19 in honor of the memory of some person who served the Confederacy during the Civil War. In addition to receiving a medal, the child's and honoree's names were inscribed in a Book of Memory to be housed in a proposed Memorial Hall to be carved into the base of the mountain below the carving. The medals were struck by Whitehead-Hoag, as were all the medals described below. The manufacturer's name appears on the lower reverse.

After Borglum was dismissed by the Monumental Association, the sculptor that replaced him, Augustus Lukeman, designed a medal that was offered in three versions. The central obverse device on all the Lukeman medals are the figures of Davis, Lee and Jackson as designed by Lukeman (the figures are placed differently than the Borglum design). The device on the reverse is an image of the entrance to the proposed Memorial Hall. The first Lukeman medal was a Children's Founders Roll medal and was sold for $1.00 from 1925 to 1927. The obverse legend reads "Children's Founders Roll Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial ". The second medal offered was a Living Veteran's Roll medal available for $5.00 to Confederate veterans. This medal had the same devices, with "Living Veterans'" replacing "Children's Founders" in the obverse legend and is gold plated. Additionally, the initials "U.C.V." (United Confederate Veterans) and date "1927" are struck into the lower reverse. The third medal was available for $5.00 to adults who were not veterans and was designated a "Gold Star" medal. It was the same as the Children's Honor Roll Medal but was gold plated. The Living Veterans and Gold Star medals were sold in 1927. There are also Lukeman Children's Honor Roll medals known counterstamped with a State abbreviation and "1927". The significance of these is not yet known.

Although the proposed Memorial Hall was never carved into the mountain, participant's names were entered into a Book of Memory which is kept in the Stone Mountain Collection at the Manuscript and Rare Book Library at Emory University in Atlanta. There are 3,500 names inscribed in the Living Veteran's Roll section and 35,622 names inscribed in the Children's Founders Roll section. The Gold Star recipients names were to be inscribed into another book, but I was unable to locate it.

Aegis3

Here is the relevant Stack's sale. Select "Silver Commemoratives" in the Classification drop-down menu; the counterstamps come first; it's rather comprehensive.

Oh, and I'll try an overlay in a day or two on the Mississippi coin and medal. I'm not sure if I'll have enough resolution to get a good answer; in addition to the stamping depth issue.

OnTheHunt

Thanks all for the help. I now think that although the punches used for the medals are very similar to the punches used for the halfs, they are not the same. Now to try and find out why the medals were counterstamped. At least I'm further ahead than I was yesterday!

Steve

messydesk

The letters can take on a very different shape if the punch is tilted a little, and I think that accounts for the difference between the "MISS" stamp on the medal and the half.

Is that your article in this month's Numismatist?

seanq

I don't have much to offer other than this photo of a VA counterstamped Stone Mountain half, the letter punch looks very similar to the one on the medal but not exactly the same. Perhaps the stamps were made by the same person or company but at two different times so the actual punches are unique?




Sean Reynolds

OnTheHunt

<< <i>The letters can take on a very different shape if the punch is tilted a little, and I think that accounts for the difference between the "MISS" stamp on the medal and the half. >>


At first I thought they were the same but with a differnt angle or force because the M and I seem to match so well, but now I don't think so.


<< <i>Is that your article in this month's Numismatist? >>


Yes, though the staff there did a wonderful job in making it presentable.


<< <i>Perhaps the stamps were made by the same person or company but at two different times so the actual punches are unique? >>


I'm thinking along those lines. The Stone Mountain records are voluminous and the info may be tucked in there somewhere.

Steve