Root around in your harddrives and find me a birthday present....I'm looking for images of "The

ANACONDA

Root around in your harddrives and find me a birthday present....I'm looking for images of "The Roanoke" that brought me here. Here is the original thread:



We've all been quoted in an ebay auction!

Justacommeman

With help from friends. Is this it? MJ

1937 50C Roanoke MS67 NGC. Intense violet, sea-green, lemon, and orange toning consume this lustrous and precisely struck Superb Gem. The dramatic patterns of color on this Roanoke half are unlikely to be equaled, and are undoubtedly caused by long-term undisturbed storage within a sulphur-lined envelope.

ColonialCoinUnion

100.

roadrunner

Wonder if that would pass muster today?

roadrunner

dizzyfoxx

<< <i>Wonder if that would pass muster today?

roadrunner >>



Doubt it very much, unfortunately.

Justacommeman

The bidder a commem legend whoes AN EXPERT was sure it was NT but not all others weren so certain at the 2007 Milwaulkee. Regardless, 9X times book latter the coin hammered for $9200, Not bad for a 67:

MJ

ANACONDA

<< <i>With help from friends. Is this it? MJ


>>



Yup, that's it....not photos I took...which showed the colors better, but yes, that is definately it. Do you know who took those images?

ANACONDA

If I remember correctly there was someone who remembered that coin from something like 25 years before that coin was mentioned first on the board.

I bought it originally in an ANACS 67 holder, sold it with the proviso that if the buyer or anyone could get it into an NGC or PCGS holder I'd give them a profit of 10K, and they got it into an NGC holder.

ANACONDA

<< <i>Wonder if that would pass muster today?

roadrunner >>



It doesn't need to pass muster. It's already in an NGC holder.

Baley

they mean, can it pass Re-Muster?

we need more hand-holding and fifth party opinions

ANACONDA

<< <i>they mean, can it pass Re-Muster?

we need more hand-holding and fifth party opinions >>

TomB

I remember the thread, remember the auction, remember being quoted and remember seeing the coin in-hand in the 1990s.

Justacommeman

Bruce Scher PCGS 68

scher

Thats just not fair...
Bruce Scher

truthteller

If I remember the story correctly, the coin was owned by a old school Texas dealer for about 10 years before it was sold. It was in an old ANACS67 holder. It was offered to me for $10k back in 2002(?). I passed. The coin was into the services, both PCGS and NGC by subsequent owners at LEAST 10 times for cross over. I believe that Brian Sonnier bought the coin reasonably and sent it to NGC with documentation from several experts that the toning was true. NGC crossed the coin and subseqently sold for $20K.



TRUTH

truthteller

TomB

When I saw the coin it was in the ANACS MS67 holder and was owned by another forum member.

coinguy1

I remember seeing that coin at a show and thinking the color was very unusual, but still felt that it was natural.

roadrunner

It doesn't need to pass muster. It's already in an NGC holder.

Unfortunately mustering these days means a fresh holder, secure, secure+ or CAC.

roadrunner

truthteller

<< <i>When I saw the coin it was in the ANACS MS67 holder and was owned by another forum member. >>




Yes, Dale Larson owned the coin for a while. I don't recall if he bought it from the original Texas dealer. He told me he sent the coin in twice, once to PCGS and once to NGC for crossover. Both crossovers failed Then Stan Hatanaka purchased it from Dale and sent it in twice to PCGS for crossover. I believe Dale bought it back from Stan after Stan could not get the coin to cross.


TRUTH

lablover

<< <i>both PCGS and NGC by subsequent owners at LEAST 10 times for cross over >>



So, did the prior owners get refunds for their submission fees? How is it coins can be submitted so many times and never get crossed, upgraded, etc. And then, after selling it it gets the grade?

Am I the only one who finds this interesting? Does one have to have a big name to get the score? I had this occur with a number of my former coins so I just have to ask. I recall a 1878-CC Morgan I owned in MS65 that I attempted eleven times to upgrade to MS66. Tried it in the holder and cracking the coin. Each time it came back MS65. So, I finally gave up on the coin and sold it to a well known dealer. Guess what, he sent the coin in and on his first try got the MS66. Can someone explain that? I'm certain our grader friends do their best to be as accurate as possible; and I'm not trashing them or the companies they work for...I'm just amazed when I hear these sorts of stories.

However, I too keep those submissions going in hopes of one day hitting the big one!

Just curious of others thoughts...

(edited for additional comments)

coinguy1

<< <i>

<< <i>both PCGS and NGC by subsequent owners at LEAST 10 times for cross over >>



So, did the prior owners get refunds for their submission fees? How is it coins can be submitted so many times and never get crossed, upgraded, etc. And then, after selling it it gets the grade? Am I the only one who finds this interesting? Does one have to have a big name to get the score?

Just curious of others thoughts... >>

At one time or another, most "big names" have sold coins that they had failed to cross or up-grade, and which subsequently succeeded. It underscores the subjectivity and lack of perfect consistency in coin grading.

truthteller

<< <i>

<< <i>both PCGS and NGC by subsequent owners at LEAST 10 times for cross over >>



So, did the prior owners get refunds for their submission fees? No, you take your chances and get the rewards.

How is it coins can be submitted so many times and never get crossed, upgraded, etc. Happens all the time with crackout guys
And then, after selling it it gets the grade? Some things better left unknown

Am I the only one who finds this interesting? No

have to have a big name to get the score? Some things better left unknown

Just curious of others thoughts... >>





TRUTH

lablover

<< <i>It underscores the subjectivity and lack of perfect consistency in coin grading. >>



Yes, that is true. However, if one paids a professional for services then should one expect those service to be performed correctly?

BG

<< <i>Unfortunately mustering these days means a fresh holder, secure, secure+ or CAC.

roadrunner >>

truthteller

I know of a dealer who purchased a proof lincoln in a holder. The coin was valued at $2000 at the time of purchase. He sent the coin in 8 times before it was upgraded and then sold the coin for $20K. Was the 7 submissions worth it at $100 a pop? NO. But the eighth submission gave him a net profit of $17,200.


TRUTH

coinguy1

<< <i>

<< <i>It underscores the subjectivity and lack of perfect consistency in coin grading. >>



Yes, that is true. However, if one paids a professional for services then should one expect those service to be performed correctly? >>

"Correctly" implies an objective, black and white standard and determination. That is not the case when trying to grade coins, much less, to the nearest point. And ditto for trying to determine whether they are naturally toned or not, etc.

ANACONDA

<< <i>Truthteller: I know of a dealer who purchased a proof lincoln in a holder. The coin was valued at $2000 at the time of purchase. He sent the coin in 8 times before it was upgraded and then sold the coin for $20K. Was the 7 submissions worth it at $100 a pop? NO. But the eighth submission gave him a net profit of $17,200. TRUTH >>



Did anyone force the buyer to pay 20K for the coin? Then maybe the only thing that got hurt was the guy's feelings who wasn't smart enough to send it in 8 times......

TRUTH!

SoCalBigMark

Dealers go from show to show and get feedback how loose or tight the mobile grading teams are that day and may even know who they are and what they may look for in different series.

Justacommeman

FWIW- I was told that this was the "Tennesse" coin owned by "Johnny"that was in an ANAC's holder in the 80's..................I was still chasing girls hard back then so coins didin't exist yet for me.MJ

ChrisRx

<< <i>

<< <i>Wonder if that would pass muster today?

roadrunner >>



Doubt it very much, unfortunately. >>



Doubt it very much, fortunately.

golfer72

Kind of funny how everyone agrees that grading is subjective and its hard to consistently arrive at the same grade if a coin is submitted multiple times yet we now have plus grades that further refine grades within a grade.

Sonorandesertrat

<< <i>Kind of funny how everyone agrees that grading is subjective and its hard to consistently arrive at the same grade if a coin is submitted multiple times yet we now have plus grades that further refine grades within a grade. >>




No point in trying to inject logic into coin grading. The plus grades are more about maintaining a revenue stream than anything else.

Broadstruck

Here's one I photographed for member commemdude last summer.

Due to being underage... infant Virginia Dare has been blocked on the reverse.

commeman

I was at the show (Long Beach I think) in the early 2000's when Stan Hatanaka baught the coin. It was a beauty but numerous major commem dealers would not touch it. Stan did not know the history of the coin and was really bumbed out that a dealer would take $8,000 from him and not tell him about the potential AT issue. Gregg Bingham found out about the sale and got Stan's money back. How? I don't know but to his credit he did so because Stan was a good friend. To this day, I feel that the coin is both NT and AT.