What's your opinion of this 1958 Proof Jefferson?
ModCrewman
Posts: 4,032 ✭✭✭✭✭
I picked this one up from a local shop a few weeks ago, finally took some photos of it yesterday. Looks to me like it may have a shot at DCAM:
Edited to update the link so the photo shows.
Edited to update the link so the photo shows.
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Comments
Definitely a CAM. Maybe a DCAM. You will never know unless you submit it for grading.
Keets will go nuts if he sees this thread. He is into Jeffersons and Cameo proof Jeffersons.
Your nickle is a great addition to the 1958 quarter you posted earlier.
What part of the country are you finding these coins you have been posting? With the luck you have been having in finding 1950's cameo proofs, you better watch out for fellow cameo fans invading your turf
Thanks SanctionII, I've been finding them "close to home".
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
just kidding, Kevin.
<< <i>
You wouldn't??
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
back to the coin...........................it's important to realize just how difficult it is to find a 1958 with moderate frost let alone the type of frost on the OP's coin. starting in 1956 and continuing through 1958 the Mint seemed to have difficulty in obtaining good quality production when striking Proof Jefferson Nickels. it is odd when you consider that 1954-1955 shows a dramatic increase in DCAM's, probably more than half of all DCAM Jeffersons from the 1950's holdered to date coming from those two years alone. perhaps some key employee(s) left, perhaps there was a problem with tooling; the end result is that it took Mint workers three years to again strike reasonable numbers of Heavily Frosted coins in 1959 and then things started to hum along nicely in the 60's. i recall around the turn of the Century that R&I Coins had a 1958 PCGS PR68DCAM listed for the princely sum of $10k when DCAM's for the date numbered about three. it's hard to believe that over the course of 10 years the numbers have barely changed, that's how difficult the date is and how large the PayDay can be.
I wish the LIBERTY * 1958 had more frost
(or maybe it is just the pic)
Proof 1956, 1957 and 1958 nickels with frosted devices and nice mirrors are exceedingly hard to find.
I have looked for these coins, raw, for about 10 years.
I lucked out and found a 1956 set in OGP in Fresno about 7 years ago that contained a very nice nickel with thick, even two sided frost and nice mirrors and a golden color. It is my best 1956 nickel and would probably receive a CAM designation if graded. It has great eye appeal but is not close to a DCAM.
1957 - fugiddaboutit
1958 - the pictured 1958 in this post blows away the best 1958 I have [bums me out that Modcrewman found his 1958 nickel in such a short time looking]. I have a couple of 1958 nickels with decent [moderate] frost on both sides with nice mirrored fields. However, I do not know if they would even CAM.
I have 1950-1955 nickels that have much better Cameo appearances than my best 1957. Imagine that. My best 1950 has streaks on it that impair the mirrored fields but has heavy frost. My best 1951-1953 nickels have very nice mirrored fields, decent frost and nice muted color on them. My best 1954 and 1955 nickels are solid Cameo coins with nice mirrored fields and thick, even frost. The 1954 has a golden color and the 1955 has more of a blue grey color.
1959 has also not been an easy year to find in Cameo for me. I have a couple of them.
1960, 1961 and 1962 have not been easy to find either.
You have to get to 1963 before finding Cameo nickels gets easier. Surprisingly the SMS nickels are easier to find than the SMS cents, dimes and quarters.
Finding a DCAM nickel for 1968, 1969 and 1970 is also very difficult. CAM's are fairly easy, but a true DCAM for these three dates is not found very often.
I remember the $10K R&I 1958 DCAM nickel. I wonder if it sold at that price.
1. The mirrors are at least 3" and more like 4-5" based upon my non-expert opinion last night, and that is based upon the reverse, which has a bit larger fields by which to judge, and aren't as clean as the obverse.
2. If anyone wants to buy it for the $10k that Tomaska was selling his 58 for, I'd accept that offer.
3. I am not into it for too much.
I really love this coin; along with my 1956 quarter; I'd say it's my favorite coin right now. I did combine the photos into a single smaller file yesterday:
1997-present
<< <i>I think the 1958 nickel is superb. Congrats on the pickup.
Definitely a CAM. Maybe a DCAM. You will never know unless you submit it for grading.
Keets will go nuts if he sees this thread. He is into Jeffersons and Cameo proof Jeffersons.
Your nickle is a great addition to the 1958 quarter you posted earlier.
What part of the country are you finding these coins you have been posting? With the luck you have been having in finding 1950's cameo proofs, you better watch out for fellow cameo fans invading your turf
never mind Keets I go nuts when I see that kind of cam- how far out can ya hold it and get a clear mirror image
it will deff go cam, D on the other hand id have to see in hand-excellent example though.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
step 2-bypass Keets and talk to me
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
Drunner
here's a shout out to all those respondents who say PR67CAM in a PCGS holder-----the PCGS online price guide currently prices that grade at $90; send me all the PCGS PR67CAM 1958 Jefferson Nickels you have which look like the OP coin and i'll pay double sheet for them[.
Dave
Link to 1950 - 1964 Proof Registry Set
1938 - 1964 Proof Jeffersons w/ Varieties
Link to 1950 - 1964 Proof Registry Set
1938 - 1964 Proof Jeffersons w/ Varieties
<< <i>I think it is worth a shot at submission. Once you get to the 67/68 DCam level, you just can't tell from photographs where the coin will grade. Coverage of the frosting, the mirrors, hairlines, strike and general appearance will play a big role - to state the obvious. I really like the coin. Nice find. >>
Oh, what do you know about proofs Badger...oh...I clicked your links. I guess quite a bit.
Seriously though thanks for the additional opinions everyone.
I don't disagree with coindudeonebay as to needing to recognize it as a gamble; having a potentially big payoff, but just as much of an opportunity to be throwing away my grading fee; I've spent money worse ways; though I can't imagine the CAM designation being a problem for this coin. As I've told a couple of people in PM's as much as I'd like to know our host's opinion of the coin, I'm not sure I want to get it graded, as it's easier to have an inexpensive coin in my collection..."believing it's one of the finest known" and worth a bunch, than to have it graded and KNOW it's one of the finest known and then try to justify keeping it for myself rather than taking the payday.
(That being said, I do believe I'm leaning towards including it in a submission at some point this quarter.)
Edit to add: Looking at the 68DCAM in Badger's registry, the white/gray hurdle mentioned in a post above, doesn't seem like it HAS to be a problem for this date as from his photos both the 1957 and 1958 seem to have the same color as my coin as opposed to the surrounding dates that do seem to have the white frost. (Recognizing the limitations of photos and the possibility that my observation is blatantly incorrect.)
Edit #2: Also took a look at the #1 set's DCAM's finding the same grayish look in comparison to others...for what it's worth.
With respect to deciding whether or not to spend money of the cost of submitting the coin for grading, to me that is not a difficult decision. Avoid going to the movies or going out to dinner. Use the money you would spend on movies or dinner for the cost of grading.
Heck, if the purchase price for the raw nickel was "a song" [say less than $25.00], the added cost of slabbing would not put you in the negative on this coin. Lots of board members would pay a price for the coin that would guarantee ModCrewman a profit.
i don't think that what you're seeing is necessarily a date specific phenomenon, it's just that Nickel frost shouldn't be expected to look the same as Silver frost. collectors who don't focus on Nickels aren't always aware of that simple fact and judge these Proofs vs. what they typically see as white frosted coins. Nickel tends to be a bit less white.
However, there are exceptions to this general rule. Occasionally I heve seen, in hand or by picture, 1971 cameo proof nickels that have caked snow white frost that looks just like the caked snow white frost on pre 1971 silver cameo proofs.
The whitest of these nickels have been the 1956 [seen in Rick Tomaska's book] and 1969 [seen in the same book and in hand].
Funny how these cameo proof nickels can exhibit a wide range of color, both on the frosted devices and the fields. Some are very eye appealing.
Kevin, i have on the desk in front of me the absolute whitest Jefferson Proof from this era i think i've ever seen, a 1969 that's in an NGC PF68UC holder and awaiting cross some day. it's clearly one of the first strikes off a great die pair. R&I had a similarly terrific looking 1969 several years ago that i regret not paying the long dollar to obtain. the better coins that i've seen from 1968-1969 all tend to have the same look with nice luster showing through the frost and very deep mirrors.
I got lucky last month in Redding, California. I stopped by a local B&M after making a court appearance to snoop.
I found a 1968 proof set in OGP that has a nickel with thick, heavy, intensely white frost, plus deep black mirrors.
All for the princely sum of $4.50
U.S. Type Set
PF67CAM
Am I close, or way off base?
PF68CAM
I'll guess 68 cameo even though I don't like guessing from photos.
For reference, here is my 68 cam - no it is not a deep cam.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Hoard the keys.
Maybe I'll need to try ATS...is the consensus that they're a little easier on the UCAM than PCGS is on the DCAM or are they about the same?
<< <i>Maybe I'll need to try ATS...is the consensus that they're a little easier on the UCAM than PCGS is on the DCAM or are they about the same? >>
First of all, congrats on the 68 cam - it is still a tough coin to make.
With respect to your question above, in my experience the dcam designation is tougher to get at PCGS than the ucam at NGC. Same for cam - easier at NGC than PCGS.
However, I have not submitted much of any cameos to either service in the last 4 years or so, so my experience may be a little dated....
I can say that I have been trying to cross an NGC PR68 Ucam over to PCGS at the same grade - now 0 for 3 with an attempt about a year ago. Next time I will allow PCGS to go to 67dcam and see if that works.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
<< <i>Nice coin. As already mentioned, 1958 is a tough year for deep cameo Jeffs.
I'll guess 68 cameo even though I don't like guessing from photos.
For reference, here is my 68 cam - no it is not a deep cam.
absolute beauty***
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Which of those beautiful Jeffersons are you giving away for #5,000?
<< <i>Yours looks very nice to Leo...as does Cameonut's.
Which of those beautiful Jeffersons are you giving away for #5,000?
Those 16 nickels in the set, took a very long time to gather. A few are in OGH holders. I feel very fortunate to have them. If I ever do sell the entire collection, those proofs add a nice touch.
I need to look at Cameonuts proofs if they're posted.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
My reason for doing so is due to a 1958 proof set in OGP that I picked up at a B&M shop in So. Cal. last week. The nickel in the proof set looks just like the PF68 CAM nickel that Modcrewman posted in this thread. It is a keeper and it has upgraded the quality of my best 1958 proof set. I have been looking for just such a nickel and finally found one.
Now if I can just find a similar looking coin for 1957 [I have had no luck in finding a raw 1957 proof nickel with anything more than light to moderate frost].
These are the two 67 CAM's: